Ranger Archive
Thread: No I wont relax
I want to stick by my Master Ranger tag and though I dont post on the boards often I am an active player. Please, please find out what the heck is going on, before I lose the chance to respec to something thats.. "Less Broke"..
The ranger forum is where I come when I want a little sanity.. We got CL in the CU cause we moaned about it, maybe there is a lesson there. Jedi moan all the time, they get what they want. Why dont we indulge in a little whining every now and again.. Or better yet, dont camo anyone until we get a revamp (yeah I know, aint gonna happen, we are to nice). So much for that bright idea.
But no, we will sit here and bemoan why we have been nerfed rather than speak our mind and barrage the devs with "Please fix this" posts.
Happy hunting to those of you left. Lets just hope we dont get fewer, after all, we are now a crafting class, needed by crafters. All this just before SOE want to float their "Buy Stuff Online" system.. Ironic that theres going to be no crafters left to make anything so we will have to buy it elsewhere, maybe from SOE, maybe for real money?
Well, sorry about the rant, I'm gonna crawl back under my rock now.
Ok, I am going to take exception to some of what you said.
We did not get CL because we "moaned". Owen tirelessly worked his butt off to get us CL, pure plain and simple. He presented cogent well thought out arguments to the Devs to get us CL. You didn't see any of these posts, as they were on the Corr forums only. He didn't whine, snivel or snotsling (aka moaning). He presented facts, figures, and unassailable logical arguments on how we would be totally hosed without CL.
Barraging and/or berating the devs with posts does not work. Referring to their ideas as "not smart" can lead to enforced vacations and loss of a voluntary position. Yes, the devs read the forums, not all of them, not many of them, but some of them. Give them good arguments, facts, and something to think about and you may get something. Sniveling only works for the pampered few ... oh... I mean Jedi. That tactic is strictly monetary if you think about it. The little kiddies would take mommy and daddy'smoney and leave if they did not get their way.
JB
Ellisia wrote:
I know this is a rant, but its getting to the end of the respec period and I REALLY want to know whats going to happen to my favourite profession in the whole game.
I want to stick by my Master Ranger tag and though I dont post on the boards often I am an active player. Please, please find out what the heck is going on, before I lose the chance to respec to something thats.. "Less Broke"..
The ranger forum is where I come when I want a little sanity.. We got CL in the CU cause we moaned about it, maybe there is a lesson there. Jedi moan all the time, they get what they want. Why dont we indulge in a little whining every now and again.. Or better yet, dont camo anyone until we get a revamp (yeah I know, aint gonna happen, we are to nice). So much for that bright idea.
But no, we will sit here and bemoan why we have been nerfed rather than speak our mind and barrage the devs with "Please fix this" posts.
Happy hunting to those of you left. Lets just hope we dont get fewer, after all, we are now a crafting class, needed by crafters. All this just before SOE want to float their "Buy Stuff Online" system.. Ironic that theres going to be no crafters left to make anything so we will have to buy it elsewhere, maybe from SOE, maybe for real money?
Well, sorry about the rant, I'm gonna crawl back under my rock now.
Okaaay... in addition to what JB said.
If you feel the need to respec into something less broke, I'd suggest you do it. You sure as heck won't be the only one.
Ranger gets you CL and a health boost but, as we were outwith the scope of the CU, we were not slated for ANY other enhancements, modifications, fixes or whatever during that phase of change. As a result, no offence or defence mods. You are fighting creatures with one hand tied behind your back, the smart thing to do is to get yourself a full double combat mastery while you can and to petition like heck for a Ranger Revamp 'sometime'.
If you look at the posts of some of the long term regualr rangers you'll see that an awful large percentage of us have not got a lot of Ranger left, having picked up skills from (irony of irony) BH, etc. Now, these are folk that've stuck by Ranger since before I started playing and even they're making that sort of decision? Kinda tells us something, eh?
(Besides, so long as you can kill and kill a LOT, picking up the XP to re-Master isn't going to be 'that' difficult
)
JBMat wrote:
Ok, I am going to take exception to some of what you said.
We did not get CL because we "moaned". Owen tirelessly worked his butt off to get us CL, pure plain and simple. He presented cogent well thought out arguments to the Devs to get us CL. You didn't see any of these posts, as they were on the Corr forums only. He didn't whine, snivel or snotsling (aka moaning). He presented facts, figures, and unassailable logical arguments on how we would be totally hosed without CL.
Barraging and/or berating the devs with posts does not work. Referring to their ideas as "not smart" can lead to enforced vacations and loss of a voluntary position. Yes, the devs read the forums, not all of them, not many of them, but some of them. Give them good arguments, facts, and something to think about and you may get something. Sniveling only works for the pampered few ... oh... I mean Jedi. That tactic is strictly monetary if you think about it. The little kiddies would take mommy and daddy'smoney and leave if they did not get their way.
JB
QFFE!!!
I am not detracting from Owen's work here, but I spoke to a dev first day of CU beta testing, and seems they were going to give us CL all along. Owen know's this as I told him in confidence at the time about it.
I'm really not detracting from Owen's work here, it's just that he did all that work possibly unecessarily because the devs didn't care to share their plans with him. As usualy, awful communication skills on the part of SOE. A random (i.e. me) beta tester knew that rangers would get CL and health bonus before the ranger correspondant did, I don't know about you, butI think that's really bad, and is also why, despite being told to keep it under my hat, reported it to Owen as soon as I logged out from that TC session.
Message Edited by DaveG on 05-23-2005 04:24 PM
If you take a look at the "In Development" and "In concept" forums there have been many posts concerning Smugglers etc etc but I have yet to see one about Rangers.. Is this a sign that our vaunted revamp is not going to be happening any time soon, I'll assume so.
Not to put to fine a point on it, we did get hit badly with the nerf bat in the CU.. Ok we got CL, but what we didnt get was any adaptability in our SP spending. 4 Points left after taking a combat class, the only class requiring a full novice tree. What are they going to do about that? Anything at all? Answers.. strangly silent.
We can sit here and throw words about until we are blue in the face, either we continue with the most broken class or respec to something else. Apparently it matters very little to SOE.
Im not sure any more about ranger being a lifestyle, I feel its more about having "Mug" tatoo'd on your forehead.
DaveG Wrote:
I am not detracting from Owen's work here, but I spoke to a dev first day of CU beta testing, and seems they were going to give us CL all along. Owen know's this as I told him in confidence at the time about it.
Owen-Lars wrote:
DaveG Wrote:
I am not detracting from Owen's work here, but I spoke to a dev first day of CU beta testing, and seems they were going to give us CL all along. Owen know's this as I told him in confidence at the time about it.
Just making a point here that i didnt know about CL increases hehe, just that Dave told me about his experiences.
The devs never said a thing about ranger CL and to be honest were never interested until you guys put your case forward and layed out why we needed it. Dave you need to remember that when we started play the CU it was months after we had been asking for the CL/Healthbonuses for rangers and infact putting our case forward that we are a combat class. I can remember JB, WildBil, Phen, Paks, myself and everyone on the CU team going nuts and putting forward wave after wave of reasoning behind getting rangers a CL increase. It wasnt my individual crusade to get it nor anyone elses, it was the community putting forward their arguments and then the alpha team such as those people highlighted above spending day after day for months putting them forward and digging their heals in on the CU boards.
Just thought i had to say that because when i read it it sounded like the hard work the guys put in months before we even got to play (the reason why we got the change to CL and Health in the first place) was wasted and made no difference. I dont think that at all and the only reason why we got the changes to health and CL was because of those days justifying our combat orientation.
Owen is doing what he can, but I think that our priorities are really screwed up at the moment. We're spending a lot of effort gnashing our teeth over the little things such that we've missed the big picture. The big picture being our role in the game.
Pre-cu our role was as hunters. we collected supplies that went into making doc buffs, chef buffs, and armor mainly. The 30k resource rewards came and took a huge chunk out of our market (shhh but nobody noticed or said anything). Then in the CU effectively removed doc buffs from the picture, made armor less desirable, and made chef foods much less desirable. The demand for organics has shrunk greatly yet the supply of them has increased 10-fold. Oh oh.
But perhaps the bigger change is in the style of hunting. The entire ranger skillset was built around the idea that you have these superior hunters who travel far our into the wilderness and are able to locate, travel to, evaluate, and kill, creatures that people without such skills can get at.
The game has changed though and made that style of hunting obsolete. Now if you or anyone in your party has any interest in working on combat skills while you hunt, you are effectively tied 100% to the combat terminals, because if you don't use the terminals, you'll encounter nothing but creatures of the "wrong level". Also we know that there is an inverse relationship between the amount of "natural spawns" and the number of "mission spawns". If you hunt only in groups and only from the terminals, the need for all the ranger "signature skills" is greatly diminished. Even the "creature knowledge" stuff has been made obsolete now that you learn pretty much all you need to know about the creature by the color of their dot and the number above their head.
Message Edited by GoldMemberBria on 05-23-2005 02:29 PM
DaveG wrote:
I am not detracting from Owen's work here, but I spoke to a dev first day of CU beta testing, and seems they were going to give us CL all along. Owen know's this as I told him in confidence at the time about it.
I'm really not detracting from Owen's work here, it's just that he did all that work possibly unecessarily because the devs didn't care to share their plans with him. As usualy, awful communication skills on the part of SOE. A random (i.e. me) beta tester knew that rangers would get CL and health bonus before the ranger correspondant did, I don't know about you, butI think that's really bad, and is also why, despite being told to keep it under my hat, reported it to Owen as soon as I logged out from that TC session.
Message Edited by DaveG on 05-23-2005 04:24 PM
Dave, you spoke to a dev on the first day of the CU. Now I can't guarantee that they didn't tell you this was the plan ALL along, but I can tell you that they outright told us that nothing in our profession would be touched by the CU with the exception of Trapping ... possibly. This was told to us in the first few months of the closed forums and persisted for a majority of the Alpha phase.
We were led to believe we'd be coming out of the CU without any type of positive changes.
Owen, Calc, Phen, Fred, Paks, JB, Delta and numerous other Rangers and Scouts made a name for the two professions by tirelessly attacking and challenging that mindset all the way up until that day Kimi got a confirmation for us in the Stratics chat.
As a person who has gotten pretty close to seeing how these Devs think I have no doubt that Owen made a major dent in the conception and direction that the profession had prior to the CU.
Unfortunately, what I've dubbed "the wall of silence" extends to all non-development folks. Occasionally a player can get some insight into the way things work as you did by cornering a Dev, but mostly all players blue name or not, get stuck having to have to hear the negative things along with everyone else. I agree its a poor development practice but its not solely a practice employed by SOE. This is something that all games currently suffer from.
I think, though, that we can definitely impress the need for change and even if we don't change the direction that Camo is headed we can encourage something positive to arise in its stead.
Remember... the Dev's have a tendency to hit you with Bad news and then lighten it shortly there after.
Example: "CU goes live tomorrow 'as is'... " -pause while everyone gets upset- "Ok we've listened to players and it will go live in three days instead with this really long list of major bug fixes that just happened to be ready but that we chose not to mention" -playerbase cheers-
How's it go? Don't hate the player ... hate the game.