Ranger Archive
Thread: So, about defenses.....
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Almagill
Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:20 pm
#1
As ranger is equivalent to an elite combat profession it should get similar off/def mods plus speed/accuracy that is applicable to both ranged OR melee.
If they're worried that that'd make us too powerful in combat, yeah, like... well, anyhow, either give us a top up against critters OR a debuff against other players. NPC's can go hang, they ain't in a union.
If they're worried that that'd make us too powerful in combat, yeah, like... well, anyhow, either give us a top up against critters OR a debuff against other players. NPC's can go hang, they ain't in a union.
Electro5
Sat May 21, 2005 2:11 pm
#2
I know there are already a lot of negative things going towards Ranger, especially with the camo kit thing. But something else to add to the list, that would be fairly effortless to fix, is our defensive bonuses.
I was looking through the different combat support skill trees for laughs, and I noticed something. Take a look....
Doctor: +30 defense at master
Combat Medic: +40 at master
Squad Leader: +50 at master, in addition to +30 for the group bonus (which I assume the leader gets as well) for a total of +80
Ranger: +10 at master?!
Now, someone care to explain that? Of the 4 support skills, Ranger, the one that is the most directly related to combat, by fighting creatures, gets the lowest amount of extra defense? Doctor is for healing, CM is harmful medicine, Squad Leader is grouping. And they get considerable defense mods. +10 is pathetic.... I mean, Musician and Dancer get +7.
Clearly, all 3 of these classes have more beneficial skills for combat (Squad Leader isn't by much, but still nice for getting rid of stats and such ina group) in combat than a Ranger, who get only traps (Rescue isn't even worth it, doesn't really work that well anyway, Taunt is just as effective and you don't have to target the person, you can keep fighting the creature. Not that its effective either, though).
One start on the road to making Ranger truly worthwhile again would be simply increasing defense. Give us, at minimum, +60 at master.
mcpryon
Sat May 21, 2005 2:20 pm
#3
I agree that there need to be more mods of some sort in Ranger. I absolutely love playing my Ranger but with MBH/MCarbineer and 4040 scout I'm able to kill animals faster (solo, anyway) than with Master Ranger. With Ranger sure I harvest more, but I have to sit for a minute after killing something my level. It would be nice to have offensive and defensive mods in Ranger to complement our main combat skills.
The one thing I fear, and seems to be in the early stages of implementation in this game, are subclasses. The profession system was great but now it's becoming more like subclasses in other MMOGs, but it would be nice if our creature knowledge was actually used. Say every time we kill a creature we learn more about it and next time it's slightly easier to kill. Ranger is all about PvE, but right now I can out-Ranger my Ranger with a little bit of scout and that's just not right.
The one thing I fear, and seems to be in the early stages of implementation in this game, are subclasses. The profession system was great but now it's becoming more like subclasses in other MMOGs, but it would be nice if our creature knowledge was actually used. Say every time we kill a creature we learn more about it and next time it's slightly easier to kill. Ranger is all about PvE, but right now I can out-Ranger my Ranger with a little bit of scout and that's just not right.
SickSix
Sat May 21, 2005 3:19 pm
#4
as a master ranger+master rifle, i have a total of 78 melee defense with a a weapon equipped, and a melee defense of 48 without a weapon equipped.
yeah, we have lots of problems, this is a MAJOR one.
frightwig
Sat May 21, 2005 4:16 pm
#5
The +10 is only there because it's always been there.
Docs and CMs got a bigger bonus for the CU, because they were considered part of the CU.
Ranger was, to quote loosely, "beyond the scope of the CU". At first we weren't even going to count towards Combat Level and Health bonus, until the community got vocal about it and Owen presented our concerns to the Devs.
Shortly before the CU beta, during the Dev HoC live chat, I asked a question (which was only half answered)...
Basically it was something like "Under the new system, what will be the cap of melee/ranged defense? Because of the high SP cost, will ranger be given more of these mods and an increase in combat level/HAM? "
They responded by saying something about "listening to the players" and that they changed their stance on Ranger contributing to CL.. Which is something we definitely wanted... but they didn't answer whether we would get more defense/offense mods. (Something that would easily be understood, if they were listening to the players)
I don't think the situation is "we should get offense/defense mods like the other professions".... but rather, this is again another situation where Ranger is being neglected. Ranger has to get these general offense/defense mods. Unfortunately, I don't except it and many other issues to be addressed until they decide to revamp the profession.
Incidentally, my Kauri toon (non ranger template) has the following mods:
speed 120
accuracy 298
melee defense 195
ranged defense 269
(I could have stacked offense/defense much higher, but decided to go for a variety of specials instead)
For obvious reasons, this is the character I prefer to play now. My rangers on two other servers are gathering dust, more or less.
Docs and CMs got a bigger bonus for the CU, because they were considered part of the CU.
Ranger was, to quote loosely, "beyond the scope of the CU". At first we weren't even going to count towards Combat Level and Health bonus, until the community got vocal about it and Owen presented our concerns to the Devs.
Shortly before the CU beta, during the Dev HoC live chat, I asked a question (which was only half answered)...
Basically it was something like "Under the new system, what will be the cap of melee/ranged defense? Because of the high SP cost, will ranger be given more of these mods and an increase in combat level/HAM? "
They responded by saying something about "listening to the players" and that they changed their stance on Ranger contributing to CL.. Which is something we definitely wanted... but they didn't answer whether we would get more defense/offense mods. (Something that would easily be understood, if they were listening to the players)
I don't think the situation is "we should get offense/defense mods like the other professions".... but rather, this is again another situation where Ranger is being neglected. Ranger has to get these general offense/defense mods. Unfortunately, I don't except it and many other issues to be addressed until they decide to revamp the profession.
Incidentally, my Kauri toon (non ranger template) has the following mods:
speed 120
accuracy 298
melee defense 195
ranged defense 269
(I could have stacked offense/defense much higher, but decided to go for a variety of specials instead)
For obvious reasons, this is the character I prefer to play now. My rangers on two other servers are gathering dust, more or less.
Almagill
Sat May 21, 2005 4:20 pm
#6
As ranger is equivalent to an elite combat profession it should get similar off/def mods plus speed/accuracy that is applicable to both ranged OR melee.
If they're worried that that'd make us too powerful in combat, yeah, like... well, anyhow, either give us a top up against critters OR a debuff against other players. NPC's can go hang, they ain't in a union.
If they're worried that that'd make us too powerful in combat, yeah, like... well, anyhow, either give us a top up against critters OR a debuff against other players. NPC's can go hang, they ain't in a union.
frightwig
Sat May 21, 2005 4:54 pm
#7
/agreed Ken..
The best way to go about it is similar to what other professions already have:
Melee Defense/Ranged Defense spread out through one or two trees.
Speed in one tree..
Accuracy in another..
The only thing different about ranger, is that it doesn't require weapons XP.. Any combat profession can go well with ranger.
Because of that, "general melee" and "general ranged" for speed/accuracy would have to be offered equally in a certain box.
Since the system doesn't seem to be set up to favor stacked melee with ranged professions, as was the case pre-CU, I don't see a balance problem with offering these mods for both ranged/melee. Hopefully the devs will see this, rather than gear us toward a certain weapon or style of combat.. (which is why I don't like the idea of ranger weapons.. but that's another thread)
The best way to go about it is similar to what other professions already have:
Melee Defense/Ranged Defense spread out through one or two trees.
Speed in one tree..
Accuracy in another..
The only thing different about ranger, is that it doesn't require weapons XP.. Any combat profession can go well with ranger.
Because of that, "general melee" and "general ranged" for speed/accuracy would have to be offered equally in a certain box.
Since the system doesn't seem to be set up to favor stacked melee with ranged professions, as was the case pre-CU, I don't see a balance problem with offering these mods for both ranged/melee. Hopefully the devs will see this, rather than gear us toward a certain weapon or style of combat.. (which is why I don't like the idea of ranger weapons.. but that's another thread)
Linox
Sun May 22, 2005 8:15 am
#8
that's the whole reason why i didn't really want mranger. It makes me very vulnerable.
DaveG
Sun May 22, 2005 1:20 pm
#9
I totally agree with the original poster.
People around here have said in the past, things along the line of "let's not get any changes to ranger made during the combat revamp, let's wait for them to do a proper job when it's time for our revamp". Although I do not think that simply changing the values of our defensive skills would at all disrupt what happens to us if/when we ever get revamped proper.
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