Ranger Archive
Thread: FS Findings (regarding scout xp route)
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Owen-Lars
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:07 pm
#1
WARNING LOTS OF NUMBERS: Mainly info from test forums about scout xp route.
For those who dont like numbers head to bottom
Ok so you have all heard of patch 10 coming out and the suposed 'quest' based route to get jedi. Well i will tell you something, the quests themselves are more like 5% of the overall work you will have to put in to get jedi in their current state. The only reason the quests cannot be done in a day or two is because there is a timer that makes it so you can only have one quest 'phase' (set of quests) every 3 weeks. The rest of the work (the other 95%) is you guessed it...... Grinding.
Ok now you know how roughly how this system is flawed ill tell you some basics if you dont already know.
For those who are not aware how the system works, here is a link to a great guide made by StGabriel, the Swordsman Corr: Guide v1.2
Ok now i will move onto how this effects us:
In order to unlock using the most scout orientated route a ranger would need to do 4 boxes in sense and possibly 2 boxes in relexes or prowess.
Ill just list some data here so you can understand how our progression would go if we decided to go this route:
TOTAL FS XP NEEDED: 7,450,000 (4,950,000 of which is senses fs xp)
FOR THIS SECTION ONWARD IN CONCENTRATING ON GETTING THE 4 SENSES BOXES USING SCOUT XP
To get 4,950,000 senses fs xp you would need to convert scouting, trapping and wilderness survival xp into fs xp using the conversion rates below:
Scouting: 1fs for 15xp
Trapping: 1fs for 30xp
Camping: 1fs for 10xp
Seen asthough we mostly get scout xp ill work on that one asif we were going to master all4 tiers in senses with scout xp.
To get 4,950,000 senses FS xp you would need: 74,250,000 scout xp
Compare this to the 148,500,000 you would need in weapons xp for 4 boxes and you would think we got the better deal. We have to get half the xp they do.
However all isnt what it seems.
Players doing the combat stuff need weapons xp and combat xp to get fs xp. The convertion rate for weapons xp is 1-30 and the combat xp is 1-3. This means that on the same kill they get the same amount of fs xp from the combat xp as they do from the weapons xp. Esentially making their ratio the same as ours.
I.E.
They would only need 74,250,000 weapons xp to get 2,475,000 FS xp (half what they needed). But because they are also getting the same amount of fs xp from combat xp at the same time they dont need to get the 148.5 milllion because they have been collecting it at the same time.
So by now you can see that weapons/combat only realy need the same fs xp as us because they get two sources coming in at once. All seems even possibly. However now you have to go down to easy of collection.
The conversion rate of weapons is 1-30 whereas scout is 1-15. So per xp we get twice as much fs. So in order to balance the fs collection ratios, scout should be twice as hard to ge.
This is the problem, getting scout xp is much more harder than twice as hard. I noticed this problem and decided to test it out today. I surrendered my master tag and hunting 4 then learnt them again so i wasnt capped on scout xp and did the same with rifle and combat so i could test.
I kill 4 Raveous Tortons. Heres what i go in terms of xp and fs conversion.
Rifle: 4000xp (3915)
Combat: 400xp (391)
Scout: 450xp (440)
Ok now using the conversion rates:
Rifle (1-30): 4000 = 133fs
Combat (1-3): 400 = 133fs
Scout (1-15): 450 = 30fs
Now you see the problem here? The combat xp AND weapons xp can be exchanged for the same FS xp to put into reflexes or combat prowess.
rifle+combat = 266fs
scout = 30fs
A person planning on getting 4 tiers via using scout abilities (senses) is getting nearly 1/9th of what a persongetting 4 combat tiers (reflex/prowess) is getting from the same creature.
You can say, well you will be getting weapons and combat xp too. True, which will count towards the other two boxes but a person who wants to go full combat can pick his/her tiers ALL in weapons and combat xp boxes because there are 8 tiers requiring combat related stuff.
Obviously the numbers will make your head hurt but the main points are if you are planning on doing 4 tiers in the FS system because you are a ranger, you will be getting your 4 tiers 9 times slower than a weapons xp person.
Im not saying nerf weapons gained xp to our level, im saying the devs need to have a good think about how xp is gained and how fast xp is gained.
If you want your jedi that bad, id say go a the combat route because it looks like from the state of the situation on TC, the devs have made it tough for anyone wanting to go scouting/crafting/entertaining route.
PS: Musicians and entertains get is Much Much worse than us eheh.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 08-18-2004 10:08 PM
JavaMaster99
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:24 pm
#2
Man that is alot of xp, i think it only took me a week to cap out my unarmed, combat and scout xp so maybe it wont be tooo bad. Not sure I am gona bother with the FS slot anyway but it is the shaft for my Weaponsmith (I wanted to get FS skills for crafting)
Vorpaks
Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:56 pm
#3
How do you do this stuff while hung-over?
So clarify one point for me - I think this falls under thae category of "obvious" which is why it is still foggy to me.
Is all FS xp created equal? If I traded in my rifle xp for FS xp would I be able to use it to learn the FS survival line? Or is FS xp split into categories, so I would only be able to use FS xp gained from scouting to actually learn any of the FS survival lines, and only use FS xp gained from combat to learn the FS combat lines?
I am actually content with this system as far as I understand it. A lot of people will grind it. But a lot of people will grind it no matter how it is set up. I see a bunch of fun new quests. After I've finished the quests and unlocked a bunch of boxes I just do my regular Ranger thing and when I've maxed out my xp I take a trip to the village and convert it. Eventually (another year? Two?
) I will have so much experience in my chosen path that I will reach potential Jedi status. Maybe by that point I'll be ready to take the leap into glowy-stick waving.
However, reality is probably different then my understanding of it.
So clarify one point for me - I think this falls under thae category of "obvious" which is why it is still foggy to me.
Is all FS xp created equal? If I traded in my rifle xp for FS xp would I be able to use it to learn the FS survival line? Or is FS xp split into categories, so I would only be able to use FS xp gained from scouting to actually learn any of the FS survival lines, and only use FS xp gained from combat to learn the FS combat lines?
I am actually content with this system as far as I understand it. A lot of people will grind it. But a lot of people will grind it no matter how it is set up. I see a bunch of fun new quests. After I've finished the quests and unlocked a bunch of boxes I just do my regular Ranger thing and when I've maxed out my xp I take a trip to the village and convert it. Eventually (another year? Two?
) I will have so much experience in my chosen path that I will reach potential Jedi status. Maybe by that point I'll be ready to take the leap into glowy-stick waving.However, reality is probably different then my understanding of it.
Owen-Lars
Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:12 pm
#4
Ok special little Q&A session for you Paks 
"Is all FS xp created equal?"
Nope, there are various conversion rates. For example for every 15 scout xp points you recieve you get 1 FS xp to use in Enhanced Senses Tree (survival tier located in this). Here are some others:
Rifle xp: 1fs for 30xp (aswel as all the weapons xp types)
Combat xp: 1fs for 3xp
Scout: 1fs for 15xp
Camp: 1fs for 10xp
Trapping: 1fs for 30xp
"If I traded in my rifle xp for FS xp would I be able to use it to learn the FS survival line?"
Nope. You could only use that in either the Reflexes or Combat Prowess trees. Mirroring that you would need these to convert these types to level up in senses boxes (survival): - senses xp type and conversion rates courtesy of StGabriel -
- Image Design xps -- 15->1
- Dancing xps -- 20->1
- Musician xps -- 20->1
- Entertainer Healing xps -- 20->1
- Scout xps -- 15->1
- Trapping xps -- 30->1
- Survival xps -- 10->1
- Medical xps -- 20->1
- Surveying xps -- 35->1
"is FS xp split into categories?"
Indeed. There are 4 trees requiring 3 groups of xp each:
Combat Prowess: Weapons xp, Combat xp
Enhanced Reflexes: Weapons xp, Combat xp
Enhanced Senses: listed above
Crafting Mastery: Crafting xp
The problems im getting at is that by gaining boxes using scout xp you gain FS xp almost 9 times slower than a person doing the combat boxes, i dont think this is fair to those wanting to go an alternate route. With the conversion rates we should be getting the same FS xp from scout xp per kill (or slightly less due to mask scent scout xp) as combat people gettingFS xpfrom weapons xp+combat xp.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 08-18-2004 11:17 PM
Owen-Lars
Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:14 pm
#5
"How do you do this stuff while hung-over?"
Some people sleep when they are hungover.
When im hungover i cant snowboard, so i dont, and instead...... post
Vorpaks
Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:22 pm
#6
/wookieehug
Thanks Owen! Interesting. Good thing I actually want some of those defensive combat trees. Does actual Jedi xp work the same way now I wonder? When I messed around with it during patch 9 testing you could apply it to any tree you wanted.
Well, at least our FS skills, like our profession, will very rarely become the FOTM. /biteslip
Thanks Owen! Interesting. Good thing I actually want some of those defensive combat trees. Does actual Jedi xp work the same way now I wonder? When I messed around with it during patch 9 testing you could apply it to any tree you wanted.
Well, at least our FS skills, like our profession, will very rarely become the FOTM. /biteslip
Vorpaks
Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:24 pm
#7
Owen-Lars wrote:"How do you do this stuff while hung-over?"Some people sleep when they are hungover.When im hungover i cant snowboard, so i dont, and instead...... post
Well, at least it is more productive than drooling on yourself, which is what I usually do.
Owen-Lars
Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:43 pm
#8
Does actual Jedi xp work the same way now I wonder? When I messed around with it during patch 9 testing you could apply it to any tree you wanted.
Well, at least our FS skills, like our profession, will very rarely become the FOTM. /biteslip
Well, at least our FS skills, like our profession, will very rarely become the FOTM. /biteslip
I presume that the jedi xp and skill system acts in exactly the same way as it does now. The changes i expect to only effect the path TO jedi rather than the trials and beyond.
Yes thats the very sad fact that like our profession our fs tags will be rare also. I supose it will give you an oportunity to add it to your sig though to say you have done it
"Well, at least it is more productive than drooling on yourself, which is what I usually do. "
Drooling is something i havnt experienced yet but im sure the time will come when i do. Instead i go on treasure hunts when im realy drunk and fall asleep with them. Hehe once i woke up with a waste height pyramid made out of pizza boxes in my living room. I have no idea how why i go on treasure hunts, i can never remember doing thembut its hilarious in the morning when everyone wakes up to find what wescavenged that previous night
Washell
Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:21 pm
#9
Couple of crates of glow-wires, good composite, buffs and one cl70+ creature to trap (macro) over and over again. Which path you said was harder?
Owen-Lars
Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:46 pm
#10
1) Would depend on what you were /trapping for the %stick
2) Trapping has 1>30 conversion rate same as weapons
3) You can get (well atleast i can) much more weapons xp in a much shorter time than i can traping xp.
4) Trapping means tanking in armour meaning armounr will degrade a hell of alot
5) Why should we have to macro traps and tank spam just because our scout values are out of whack when scout is our primary xp (much like weapons xp to combatants)
6)........... the list goes on.
Combatants have their primary weapons xp and a joint primary fs xp giver, why shouldnt ranger/scouts?
BlakkStar
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:22 pm
#11
In your example with the ravenous torton, u aren't taking into consideration scout xp varies with creature level whereas wep/combat xp varies with your level+creature difficulty to that level. Therefore if Im a master combat I should be hunting high level (soloable/easily killed) mobs like slinking voritors on dant orenraged rancors on dath. They both with give me the highestwep xp possible and they will also give high scout xp, slinking voritors beign around 900 andaround 1.2k or 1.5k(can't remember which). They both withgive similar numbers in the wep xp category but the scout xp with bevery different between the two because enraged rancors have higher cl.
Almagill
Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:47 pm
#12
Vorpaks wrote:
Owen-Lars wrote:"How do you do this stuff while hung-over?"Some people sleep when they are hungover.When im hungover i cant snowboard, so i dont, and instead...... post
Well, at least it is more productive than drooling on yourself, which is what I usually do.
Why do you drool on Owen when you're hungover?
Vorpaks
Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:38 am
#13
Hey, chicks dig guys with accents, what can I say?
BTW, you are a brat.
/tickle Ken mercilessly
/slobber Ken
BTW, you are a brat.
/tickle Ken mercilessly
/slobber Ken
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