Ranger Archive
Thread: Don't Be Discouraged Phenix
BlakkStar wrote:
This was from the horse's mouth.
oops...forgot to add.
SWG listed "hybrids" as anything that had to get skills from two different proffessions to get. I listed them under a different categorization, based upon the abilities that they have. I think mine is a more accurate reflexion of the way that the game acutally plays out. My Ranger is a combat class/ support class hybrid. I hunt, and I use my Ranger abilites to do so. I kill, and my Ranger skills make that kill worthwhile. Therefore my Ranger is intrisicaly based in combat.
Maybe YOU don't kill your own animals. Maybe you simply tag along while a stacker kills stuff and you just harvest. In that case, you are a support class. My ranger supports no one but himself. He kills and he heals himself. I really don't support anyone. Our support abilities really aren't powerful enought to warrant us getting that label.
Yes, our camps heal...but it's faster to call a medical droid and heal in 1 minutes than wait 30 minutes in a camp. Traps don't really help that much, since they do the same effects that my attacks do. Adhesive Mesh and p-darts are the standouts for me. Maybe you lob them so whoever you're with doesn't waste HAM on a special...but doubt all these pissiblities highly.
my guess is you're everybit as combat-oriented as me. and if you're not...I still think most Rangers are.
Phenix1050 wrote:
oops...forgot to add.
SWG listed "hybrids" as anything that had to get skills from two different proffessions to get. I listed them under a different categorization, based upon the abilities that they have. I think mine is a more accurate reflexion of the way that the game acutally plays out. My Ranger is a combat class/ support class hybrid. I hunt, and I use my Ranger abilites to do so. I kill, and my Ranger skills make that kill worthwhile. Therefore my Ranger is intrisicaly based in combat.
The point is that SWG defines what is a hybrid and what isn't. It is not wise to create your own definition of what you think is the case and then try to get THEM to give you a weapon. You are justifying a ranger weapon based on your own conclusions despite what they have said. I said I want better traps. Also I have said that I want to trap NPCs and players. Despite what the community says, I have never heard the devs say that we will never get that ability. And according to their manual description of us, there is no implication that we are or should be creature-centric. And furthermore and someone mentioned earlier, Tracking 4 is called "Manhunting." This was put in place several months after launch. Therefore my argument for traps versus people has basis in the devs own design.
BTW your ranger is a support profession coupled with the TKM profession as your means of combat. Let's not confuse the issue.
Maybe YOU don't kill your own animals. Maybe you simply tag along while a stacker kills stuff and you just harvest. In that case, you are a support class. My ranger supports no one but himself. He kills and he heals himself. I really don't support anyone. Our support abilities really aren't powerful enought to warrant us getting that label.
This is a profession-based game. Yes rangers are "combat centered" because they are combat support. You said it yourself, "My ranger supports no one but himself." Your ranger profession supports your TKM. Unfortunately traps don't support TKM very well. I'm a TKM as well and I only use wire mesh and phenacine occassionally. However ask a rifleman how much support they add. Shoot as any novice combat profession how much ranger supports their combat profession when grinding. See I'm not simply speaking of supporting other players in combat, I'm speaking mainly of support your own character's combat skills.
Yes, our camps heal...but it's faster to call a medical droid and heal in 1 minutes than wait 30 minutes in a camp. Traps don't really help that much, since they do the same effects that my attacks do. Adhesive Mesh and p-darts are the standouts for me. Maybe you lob them so whoever you're with doesn't waste HAM on a special...but doubt all these pissiblities highly.
We are TKM. The devs wanted us to be riflemen. *Shrugs*
my guess is you're everybit as combat-oriented as me. and if you're not...I still think most Rangers are.
BlakkStar wrote:
Phenix1050 wrote:
oops...forgot to add.
SWG listed "hybrids" as anything that had to get skills from two different proffessions to get. I listed them under a different categorization, based upon the abilities that they have. I think mine is a more accurate reflexion of the way that the game acutally plays out. My Ranger is a combat class/ support class hybrid. I hunt, and I use my Ranger abilites to do so. I kill, and my Ranger skills make that kill worthwhile. Therefore my Ranger is intrisicaly based in combat.
The point is that SWG defines what is a hybrid and what isn't. It is not wise to create your own definition of what you think is the case and then try to get THEM to give you a weapon. You are justifying a ranger weapon based on your own conclusions despite what they have said. I said I want better traps. Also I have said that I want to trap NPCs and players. Despite what the community says, I have never heard the devs say that we will never get that ability. And according to their manual description of us, there is no implication that we are or should be creature-centric. And furthermore and someone mentioned earlier, Tracking 4 is called "Manhunting." This was put in place several months after launch. Therefore my argument for traps versus people has basis in the devs own design.
BTW your ranger is a support profession coupled with the TKM profession as your means of combat. Let's not confuse the issue.
Ok it seems we've been fishing in 5 star Vegetation water but the vegetation rate is starting to go down.
It seems are definitions are unclear on certain things.
Ok my definition for combat support is :
the enhancing and supporting of a player and his/her skills and/or the weakening of the enemy and his or her skillsduring combat without directly causing a significantand/or fataldamage, in order to increase the likelihood of the player defeating his opponent(s).
When I speak of combat support, I am specifically referring to techniques that can be used as support in the midst of battle. Doc skills such as /curepoison is a combat support technique. While the damage-dealing revelation of traps does throw a kink in my argument (thus causing me to amend my definition), I will argue that the damage is so small, thatit is inconsequential. To call it "minimal damage" is an understatement. Furthermore I said elsewhere that I see the docs /healstate as somewhat of an inverse of rangers trapping ability. Besides scout trap too and are obviously support. Are they a hybrid as well?
"As a Ranger I have to-hit modifiers, extra defenses and the ability to apply state effects. Let's not mince words- a trap is essentially a ranged special attack that applies a state and does minimal damage. Rifleman have shots that are ranged state effects. They have to-hit modifiers and extra defenses."
This is an extremely good point and the best I've heard towards giving Ranger an actual combat status. Well i have commented on the traps. Then, (to me) the to-hit modifier can easily be seen as a combat support mod as it enhances your combat ability. The point is, as of now we DON'T have our own weapon for these mods to support. I would agree that many of the combat professions techniques could be considered in the realm of combat support but they are built in to support that combat profession specifically. Therefore mods don't make us a combat profession specifically, its the weapon/damage attacks that do. On a sidenote, this to-hit modifier does not increase our trapping success rate.
The extra defenses mean nothing . We get Melee and Ranged Defense. Whoopiee
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Musicians and Dancers get +7 to our +10.
Nemo0 wrote:
Why do I feel like I'm in the politician forum (no insult meant to the politicians of this game, just real world ones).
probably because we're all nitpicking at trivialites.
As one person pointed out, I was not trying to say that Rangers are an SWG-defined "hybrid". I was simply trying to show that there is justification for Ranger to have increased functionality in combat with creatures. I didn't mean to make the bow the centerpiece, but I had just read the "why should Rangers have a weapon" thread so I kind of focused on that one topic.
The point was to justify ALL of the combat mods that were put into the Outdoorsman 2.1. That's what I was getting at. In that document, we have increased defenses and better reaction to creatures. This is another part of combat. Again,I hold traps as a form of combat, if only because ALL state effect attacks have reduced damage. Scouts attacks more so than others, but nevertheless it is a ranged state-attack in my eyes. Thus, I think our combat role needs to be devleloped as we already have some form of combat boosts. Be it increased resists to poison/disease, increased toughness against animals, dodge/block mods against animals or a unique Ranger weapon, I think Rangers need their combat role fleshed out.
We are a Cross-Purpose class (I have changed from the "hybrid" name to avoid confusion). We can be rear support, but we must also get our hands dirty in combat. Thus we have multiple purposes on a hunt and must be ready to change as the situation does. Thus, it is important that the skills we have to meet each purpose are fully functional and help us do our job(s).
the ranger weapon became the focus due to my own foolish first post, and I hope this clears things up. As I stated in the Ranger Weapon thread, I have decided it's basically moot at this point, and I'm tired of talking about the weapon. It's gonna be a while until we get ANY revamp so it's more important to simply maintain than to have these silly little in-fights. I hope this clarifies my stance of Ranger and combat, and moves us into a more general discussion, rather than towards the ranger weapon, which had been beaten like a dead horse all day.