Ranger Archive

While the ground-based trapping system sparked our interest, the Ranger community also wanted continued and improved used of our thrown traps. Later that winter, Nraas composed the document called "The Outdoorsman Proposal" (AKA the Ranger Bible). The document was heralded by the Ranger community as a whole. In it, one sees that the previously proposed ground-based system, while supported, did not contain the evolving and complete vision of Ranger trapping by the community.

Other than listing new types of traps, some of significant more significant and/or original ideas were:

1. All scout traps should have AOE versions in ranger skillset.

2. Trap experimentation should be introduced for quantity and trap-effect duration.

3. A new device called the "Trap Launcher" should be introduced for improved distance and accuracy.

4. Traps should work on Player creature pets.

5. Ground-based traps should be a player customizable system where ground traps are simply contained with available slots,in which Rangersfill in thoseslots with thrown traps where the effect of the ground trap is based on the effects caused by the thrown trap.

All of these ideas have been reverberated in some fashion or form since its initial appearance in the Outdoorsman Proposal (e.g.Something on traps, Outdoorsman 2.1 Proposal ). The updated Outdoorsman Proposal (2.1 version) keeps in line with the original vision and still bolsters support fromt he ranger community as a whole.As far as the evolving vision of Ranger trapping the only new issue that receives some debate within the community is whether or not traps should work on other players. While it seems all ranger "would" support the idea, alot of rangers don't for the simple reason that the concept is an impossibility because it falls out of line with the Devs' vision of rangers being a "creature-centric" profession. For the sake of not straying into the argument trap (pun intended), let's discuss the "creature-centric" idea in another thread.

For this discussion, I would like to focus on a further look into the trapping system by posing some questions:

Ground traps

Is the slotted ground-based trap system toocomplicatedto implement?It would defintely seem to add more varietyto individual playstyles but is itviable?

If implemented would ranger traps be usable inslots or just scout traps? It seems that if all thrown ranger traps areAOE thenit seems that this system has the potential to be a bit overpowering.

Well considering the previous question, a limit on number of deployed ground traps would probably decrease the potential over-powerdness of ground traps. SO how many ground traps should be allowed to set at any given time?

Also in the spirit of balance,should ground traps be deployable during combat?

Would you object to a ground trap system that is similar to our current thrown system where each individual trap has its own individual effect?

Trap Experimentation and Trap Launcher

Should scouts be allowed to experiment on their traps as well?

Should trap launchers have some sort of quality rating, thus varying the ability of individual launchers?

How would trap experimentation (i.e. varying qualities of traps) and trap launchers combine to insure successful hits?

Should the trap launcher accuracy rating be based on the creature level? (i.e. the higher the accuracy rating the better chance of success on higher creature levels)

I look forward to seeing more of the community's ideas on this. And I promise not to argue with anyone. I'm still worn out from teh other day. Plus I got some studying to do.

Message Edited by BlakkStar on 09-22-2004 10:11 AM

Message Edited by BlakkStar on 09-22-2004 10:12 AM

Message Edited by BlakkStar on 09-22-2004 10:14 AM

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BlakkStar wrote:

Ground traps

Is the slotted ground-based trap system toocomplicatedto implement?It would defintely seem to add more varietyto individual playstyles but is itviable? I think it's as hard as you make it. I think a lot of people will use the simpler ones (only one slot) if they use an effective type of trap (adhesive mesh), but some people may want to really halt a creature and use a complex ground trap to decrease the targets' ranged defense, halt the creature and slow it down once it is able to move.

If implemented would ranger traps be usable inslots or just scout traps? It seems that if all thrown ranger traps areAOE thenit seems that this system has the potential to be a bit overpowering. This is a fair critizism and one that I think should be addressed. Upon consideration, I'd have to say that only scout traps should be able to be placed in them. An AOE root trap does seem cool, but perhaps there should be some measure of tactics involved...Do I lob this AOE trap...or do I place a ground traps and try to pull each creature individulaly? A good question, by the way.

Well considering the previous question, a limit on number of deployed ground traps would probably decrease the potential over-powerdness of ground traps. SO how many ground traps should be allowed to set at any given time? Perhaps the limit should be based not purely on numbers, but on the complexity of the traps. If you could place 20 complex traps that would seem a bit much. However, if you use a less complex trap, you should be able to place more of them (because they are less complex, they are easier to "tend"). So you'd have say 20 ground trap "slots" You could put any combination of complex or simple traps (remember, there were 4 levels in the proposal) So you could do 20 level 1's or 5 level 4's. Something like that would again increase the use of tactics.

Also in the spirit of balance,should ground traps be deployable during combat? Yes, but they should have a very long set up time. Something like 5-10 seconds. So you can't just set them up with a creature right behind you, but if you've "pulled" a creature and it's running from 75m out, you have a chance to set up a trap and draw it across.

Would you object to a ground trap system that is similar to our current thrown system where each individual trap has its own individual effect? I wouldn't be opposed (since I think any addition of ground traps would be good) but I would prefer a modular system where the design changes to fit my needs.

Trap Experimentation and Trap Launcher

Should scouts be allowed to experiment on their traps as well? Yes, but like medics, they're experimentation should be minimal and prone to failure. Much like medics buy doctor-made stim b's, a scout should be able to buy very effective traps made by a Master Ranger.

Should trap launchers have some sort of quality rating, thus varying the ability of individual launchers? Yes. any weapon in this game should be uniquely made and should be a balance of HAM/accuracy/speed.

How would trap experimentation (i.e. varying qualities of traps) and trap launchers combine to insure successful hits?Well, like grenades have range modifiers, we could simply ask that we get similar experimentation points to make our traps more effective at certain ranges and also be able to experiment for number of uses. Trap launchers would be able to be experimented on for speed, accuracy and HAM costs.

Should the trap launcher accuracy rating be based on the creature level? (i.e. the higher the accuracy rating the better chance of success on higher creature levels) That depends on at what level we can use trap launchers. If it's a master Ranger cert, then the accuracy should be based on the accuracy of the weapon, since you're already at the highest possible trapping level. If it's able to be used at a lower level (such as Trapping II) the accuracy should be based in part on your own trapping level. I.E. a low trapping level would be less accurate than a master, even with a slightly more accurate trap launcher.

I look forward to seeing more of the community's ideas on this. And I promise not to argue with anyone. I'm still worn out from teh other day. Plus I got some studying to do.

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1. Usable on a wider range oftargets. It really irks me that we are the only profession in game that has combat skills that are PvEC (player vs. environmental creatures)only, especially when they are worse than the specials gained in combat professions to do the same thing. At the very least, we need player pet trapping. I really think we should have PvNPC and PvP trapping as well, even if we don't hit very often as well and if they limit some traps to PvE only (like adhesive mesh and phenacine dart).


2. Rooting on throwing has to go. I love traps but this fact, combined with the low success rate on some higher level mobs, has caused too many needless near death encounters (suppression fire or warning shot do mitigate this, though--it's a nice combo to use them before the trap to give you some time to stick it).


3. Delays on traps need to be reduced as you get closer to Master.


4. Range on traps needs to go out to 64m, even if this is only with the trap launcher (preferably without it). Riflemen can't use traps while at optimal weapon range and this seems a touch unfair, especially given that all other ranged weapon skills can reach this far (CM poisons and diseases used to go significantly farther).

I'm probably missing something but I'll almost certainly come back to this thread later.

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BlakkStar wrote:

Ground traps

Is the slotted ground-based trap system toocomplicatedto implement?It would defintely seem to add more varietyto individual playstyles but is itviable?

It seems highly viable. Many games support similar systems, including SWG. I'm referring directly to the "loot kit" that is commonplace in the game. The ground trap would consist of a 'ground trapsetup kit' which a player would drag-and-drop the thrown trap onto, creating the appropriate "[trapname] ground trap."

If implemented would ranger traps be usable inslots or just scout traps? It seems that if all thrown ranger traps areAOE thenit seems that this system has the potential to be a bit overpowering.

All trapsable for useseems acceptable, and probably for the better for more versatility/options. Ranger traps would work better because they would have a better chance of success and an area of effectiveness rather than just 1 target. I don't see how this could be more overpowering than the already existing traps, basically it is the same effects possible but put into a conceptual mine instead of a grenade.

Well considering the previous question, a limit on number of deployed ground traps would probably decrease the potential over-powerdness of ground traps. SO how many ground traps should be allowed to set at any given time?

One. Any more would probably increase server lag and, to be honest, would be too easily exploited by lining up traps and pulling high-level mobs over them until the mob is debuffed to an extremely weak state. The ranger should always be able to abandon previously laid traps though, to allow them freedom to use traps anytime.

Also in the spirit of balance,should ground traps be deployable during combat?

Yes, why not? The ground traps still have the same effectiveness as thrown traps, just in different forms. Most rangers will probably use thrown traps in combat anyways because it costs less to just throw a trap rather than use more resources for the ground kit + thrown trap combo.

Would you object to a ground trap system that is similar to our current thrown system where each individual trap has its own individual effect?

Overall, I think a "ground trap kit" would be a lot easier to implement since the actual appearance of the trap working would be the same as the existing traps. Also, it would be a lot simpler for us rangers to use although it would be more costly as far as used resources go.The ground trap kitalso makes for a lot less schematics in my datapad.

Trap Experimentation and Trap Launcher

Should scouts be allowed to experiment on their traps as well?

Yes, however rangers should be alloted more experiment points according to level.

Should trap launchers have some sort of quality rating, thus varying the ability of individual launchers?

I really see no purpose to the trap launcher concept. Just increase the range we can throw traps and leave it at that, creating a new weapon for a ranger to do something a class can already do effectively (without) seems a waste of developer resource. Football players have been able to throw footballs over 100 yards accurately, a yard being approximately .9 meters. I can see after a lot of practice someone being able to throw darts (which is what a thrown trap is by my perception) up to 64m.

How would trap experimentation (i.e. varying qualities of traps) and trap launchers combine to insure successful hits?

"Trap shape" or "Areodynamicy"(sp?), simply put, you can throw a baseball faster and more accurately than a toaster due to the shape.

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