Ranger Archive
Thread: DEVS and all: This is a fundamental problem with the new harvesting system.
When harvesting resources from a creature the game seems to consider only one thing: "Was the creature killed by a group". If the answer is yes, it knocks the amount of resources on the creature down %60.
The problem is the game doesn't consider the makeup of the group. This means if you are grouped with a CH pet, a faction pet, a droid, or a player who is not a scout, it makes no difference. I know that when a CH is grouped only with his pets he considers himself "soloing", and rightfully so.
I must admit all of my experimentation has been done solely with CH pets, so I'm just guessing on the others. If someone else could verify the others, that would be nice.
To get the full amount of a harvest from a kill, you must ungroup your pets when you fight. I don't think it matters if you are grouped when you actually loot, it's during the fight that counts.
This really needs to be fixed.
Best Regards
Totally 100% disagree.
A group is a group is a group... be it you and a medic, you and a pet, you and a scout...etc. Kill an animal in a group, and the yield is 60%, but if 3 people are harvesting at 60%that's 180%, and you are getting a majority portion of all the creatures resources - where before you were getting 100% of one resource. (Easier math, there are 300 units on the average creature - bone/hide/meat. Three people get 180 units total, one person gets 100 units.)
A CH and a pet -thats a group, there are two players there (non PLAYER character pet)... not solo. Solo, me and my shadow. You and anything else = group. Solo= one...group more than one. As long as there is a second entity there controlled by either you, oranother player, you should get less harvest, youdo less work.
Frankly, it is fair. I don't use pets, or droids, when I run "solo" (there is that word there again) missions, so I am getting a decent harvest off my kills. When I run with my smuggler buddy, I accept the fact he will also harvest and if he doesn't I kick him inna butt and make him. My take on this is, while I am taking hide, I am messing up some of his meat, or bone, or whatever... it may even be more fair to let a master ranger harvest 33% yield of all 3 items, but that's a dev problem.
Leave harvesting as it is now alone. You kill something all by your lonesome, with no help from the studio audience, you win a bigger prize. Or you have to learn to play nice and share, even if your little helper won't/can't share back.
Take the good (the pets more than willing ability to tank for you, and let you kill really big bad beasties) with the bad (reduced harvest), suck it up, and drive on.
JB
The intention is when Mutiple Scouts are in a group, the Harvest drops to 60%. The current implemenation, however justified to the die-hard solo'ers, is incorrect. But what I have verified what Cayne as noticed. Keep in mind that Hide/Meat/Bone requirements for crafted items went up since they planed on a general increase of resources. But since groups with only one Scout are quite common, then there has been a reductions in harvested materials, because of the current implementation.
The current rule set encourages a scout to be completely solo, or grouped with other scouts. It is no longer worth a single scout to join a group.
-gustavef
JBMat wrote:
Totally 100% disagree.
A group is a group is a group... be it you and a medic, you and a pet, you and a scout...etc. Kill an animal in a group, and the yield is 60%, but if 3 people are harvesting at 60%that's 180%, and you are getting a majority portion of all the creatures resources - where before you were getting 100% of one resource. (Easier math, there are 300 units on the average creature - bone/hide/meat. Three people get 180 units total, one person gets 100 units.)
A CH and a pet -thats a group, there are two players there (non PLAYER character pet)... not solo. Solo, me and my shadow. You and anything else = group. Solo= one...group more than one. As long as there is a second entity there controlled by either you, oranother player, you should get less harvest, youdo less work.
Frankly, it is fair. I don't use pets, or droids, when I run "solo" (there is that word there again) missions, so I am getting a decent harvest off my kills. When I run with my smuggler buddy, I accept the fact he will also harvest and if he doesn't I kick him inna butt and make him. My take on this is, while I am taking hide, I am messing up some of his meat, or bone, or whatever... it may even be more fair to let a master ranger harvest 33% yield of all 3 items, but that's a dev problem.
Leave harvesting as it is now alone. You kill something all by your lonesome, with no help from the studio audience, you win a bigger prize. Or you have to learn to play nice and share, even if your little helper won't/can't share back.
Take the good (the pets more than willing ability to tank for you, and let you kill really big bad beasties) with the bad (reduced harvest), suck it up, and drive on.
JB
I understand your point of view JB. Disagree, but understand. However, there is one thing you are failing to consider.
As a CH, I can use my pets in combat just as effectively without having them grouped. When I was doing my experimenting, I would kill a creature using my pets in a group, then kill an identical creature using my pets ungrouped. A CH's pets are his weapons, regardless of whether or not they are in a group window. When ungrouped, I would get the full amount of the harvest. When grouped, I would get the reduction.
So, if your point of view were correct, then the current implementation would still be bugged. It would need to be changed such that if a CH (or anyone else) uses his pets at all, grouped or ungrouped, the harvest would still be reduced.
However, my contention is that this is an oversight by the dev team. A CH without pets, is like a Commando using a tangle pistol. Our pets are our weapons. Besides the fact that the reduction in Harvests was to offset multiple loots. When there is only one looting character in a group, there are no multiple loots. (as the previous poster pointed out).
Best Regards
gustavef wrote:The intention is when Mutiple Scouts are in a group, the Harvest drops to 60%. The current implemenation, however justified to the die-hard solo'ers, is incorrect. But what I have verified what Cayne as noticed. Keep in mind that Hide/Meat/Bone requirements for crafted items went up since they planed on a general increase of resources. But since groups with only one Scout are quite common, then there has been a reductions in harvested materials, because of the current implementation.
The current rule set encourages a scout to be completely solo, or grouped with other scouts. It is no longer worth a single scout to join a group.
-gustavef
Yeah, but define scout. Novice Scout is an extremely comon skill set. You will constantly run into medics, brawlers, marksmen, etc... that harvest hides because scouting skills are so common.
Aside that, If you're a scout in a group, I think that the 60% rule is perfectly fair even if there aren't any other "scouts" in the group. Mr. Scout gets an easy harvest from a kill he would have had a much hard time getting solo. Easier kill = less harvest. Seems very reasonable to me. And, as a bonus, if there are multiple scout skilled people in the group, everyon egets a taste. I'd prefer an easier fight and gauranteed harvests than and easier fight and MAYBE getting the harvest because everyone rushes the corpse to pick it clean.
Chris
The 60% Group Harvest rule is a great OPTION for low to mid level hunting parties. NON player (as in things that are NOT players) should not count as being in the party when determining the yield.
Feliz
Give up any group xp benefit you get from grouping with your pet, then I might agree that you are "solo". Til then, you can't have the best of both worlds. You're either alone or you're in a group.
Don't group with your pet if you don't like it.
Cephalo wrote:
I think this whole system was completely unnecessary. Instead of people just deciding who gets the harvest, now we have a complex system where people can endlessly debate whether or not it's broken.
I don't think this debate would have ever flaired up to begin with if this system had been implemented without this "bug?" (perhaps oversight is a better word). I believe that most characters who have any need or desire to harvest, therefore have at least some basic scouting skills, are the very same characters who solo almost exclusively with the aid of NPC pets. Most of them are "ranger to be" scouts who need the harvests for their traps and camps, or artisans who need organics for their trade. They are notheavy hittingcombat professions.
When these playersstarted harvesting during solo play and noticing the drastic reduction in their harvests, coupled with higher crafting requirements, the unrest flaired. I really think, ifthe systemwould discount faction pets, CH pets, and droids from group harvests, the whole debate would quiet down and disappear.
I was a big advocate of a new looting system, and still am. I think this system was the correct answer, it just has a kink that needs to be worked out.
Best Regards
Yeah, but define scout. Novice Scout is an extremely comon skill set. You will constantly run into medics, brawlers, marksmen, etc... that harvest hides because scouting skills are so common.
Well if they have Novice Scout, why are they refusing Free Money but not taking advantage of everyone being able to Harvest?
I Have maxed out Scouting XP, and I still Harvest. Worse case I can sell any resouce for2 credits, and most of the time 3 to 5. I would not mind an option for the Group Leader to set the Group Solo Harvest, but just have everyonewho can harvest, harvest.
-gustavef
rek17 wrote:
Well, since this is the same post and same argument I keep seeing, I'll use my same response.
Give up any group xp benefit you get from grouping with your pet, then I might agree that you are "solo". Til then, you can't have the best of both worlds. You're either alone or you're in a group.
Don't group with your pet if you don't like it.
Creature Handlers give up the benefit of grouping with their pets? I assume, by this, you mean don't use the pets, which is as absurd as telling a Commando not to use heavy weapons.
However, if you do literally mean stop grouping with the pets then you should see my above post where I make the point that the only real benefit to grouping with pets is that you can see their ham bars on your GUI. You can ungroup them, use them in combat, and get full harvests. They can be controlled just as effectively without grouping, which further illulstrates that this whole thing was/is most likely an oversight.
Best Regards
Cayne wrote:
Creature Handlers give up the benefit of grouping with their pets? I assume, by this, you mean don't use the pets, which is as absurd as telling a Commando not to use heavy weapons.However, if you do literally mean stop grouping with the pets then you should see my above post where I make the point that the only real benefit to grouping with pets is that you can see their ham bars on your GUI. You can ungroup them, use them in combat, and get full harvests. They can be controlled just as effectively without grouping, which further illulstrates that this whole thing was/is most likely an oversight.
Best Regards
No sir, I mean the experience bonus you get by grouping with your pet. Sure, seeing HAM bars is convenient, but you get combat xp bonus just by the mere fact of being in a group with your pet. I mean that people that group with pets should give this benefit up, if they truly believe that they are "solo", it they think that they should also not get the harvesting "penalty" by being in a group.
I just did this. Killed a flesh eating chuba outside of Theed. Solo: 113 unarmed xp, 11 combat xp. Then I ran to town, pulled out my MSE droid (!), not a rancor... this thing did nothing to help me, but I put him in my "group". Result for a flesh eating chuba? 141 unarmed xp, 14 combat xp.
THAT's the group benefit I'm saying you should not get, if you think you are solo and should be able to harvest the full amount. You can't have it both ways.
Thanks,
a holo post off the discussion board, ive seen it, and laughed when i saw it, cuz if it was true, why do they count as group members if youre solo and give xp bonuses
answer: because design != implementation for SOE yet