Ranger Archive

Ok, I read through (most of) that and have a comment. Are these types of camps really what most rangers would use? I mean, 80/20 rule here.

I realize that there are large group hunts, and that having a really neat tent for the group that offers everything but thekitchen sink is a great thing. But in reading this forum for a while I've definitely gotten the impression that most rangers hunt solo or in very small groups primarily. So having some REAL elaborate crafting system for REAL elaborate huge tents that require tons and tons of resources (presumably)and submodules and all this stuff seems like big-time overkill to me. Maybe have one tent option that has all that stuff with the realization that 90% of the time you won't want to use that tent.

You know what I think would be much much much more useful? Give rangers the ability to conveniently get camp-like benefitsWITHOUT having to use a camp. Hit say a "start campfire" button like scouts hit "mask scent", see a little campfire appear, and this would give the ranger abilities just as if he were in a really good camp. Aggro repulsion, ability to haul out droids, vehicles, pets, perform wound healing,and so forth. It's this kind of thing that I think would be actually usefulto a ranger 90% of the time. For the other 10% of the time, yea, go nuts with the huge, complex, monstrosities of camp sites for biggroup outings.

The Modular camp system

This is Version 2.0 of the camping vision thread, here is a link toVersion 1.0:

Campfire chat...

Ok, there are several members flying suggestions as to how best implement this system:

• I have stolen from all sides (forgive me. ) in order to produce a framework to work with in this thread.

There are multiple schematics within the skill tree, each progressively higher schematic allows for a greater number of modules or a higher version of a type of module.

The schematics could have the followingexperiment lines within them:

• Quantity: Increases the redeployments available for a camp


• Ease of Use: Experimenting here will allow lower level players to use the higher camps


• Duration: Increases the duration a camp will remain deployed while still tended

I am not saying we need all these lines, I am simply suggesting a couple that might be interesting. Other suggestions?

In order to not drive the Art department crazy, the schematics should define the initial floorplan for an encampment and they should probably match the current graphics. With various visual modules scattered where ever they can fit them.

The camps have no base functionality except the ability to log out safely within one (though who uses that ability anyways ).

Basic Camp Kit

• Oneoptional module of level 1 generic

Multiperson Camp Kit

• Twooptional module of level 1 generic

Improved Camp Kit

• Two optional modules of level 1generic and oneoptional module of level 2 creature

Hunting Blind Camp Kit

• Available at Novice Ranger


• Oneoptional module of level 3 creature

High Quality Camp Kit

• Available at Frontiering II


• Oneoptional modules of level 2 generic and one optional module of level 3 creature

Field Base Camp Kit

• Available at Frontiering IV


• Twooptional modules of level 2 generic and one optional module of level 3 creature

High Tech Field Base Kit

• Available at Master Ranger


• Two optional modules of level 2 generic and one optional module of level 3 creature and one optional module of level 4 generic

Now my suggestion is that each module have a Level associated with it. We then associate each component with a level value to restrict higher level components to higher level camp schematics.

We can also denote the module slot by a type:

• Generic: Both humanoid-centric and creature-centric modules are allowed


• Humanoid: Humanoid-centric modules (Garages, Medical bays, Turrets, Entertainer stage etc.)


• Creature: Creature-centric modules (Pet medical, pheromone, creature suppression, etc.)

In order to do that however, we need to define a whole lot of modules.

Here aresomemodules I have so far:

• Entertainer Stage/Lounge module: Heals Battle Fatigue with Entertainer present


• Pet / VehicleRecall module: Enables the camp to be used tocall pets and vehicles


• Combat Fortification module: Enables the camp to remain up during combat


• Humanoid Medical module: Enables the auto healing of a camp


• Turret: Provides an active defense system for elements aggressive to the camp owner


• Creature suppression module: Suppresses aggressive spawns in the vicinity, and repels existing aggressive creatures


• CreaturePheromone module: Increases the spawn rate in the vicinity


• Humanoid defensive barrer module: Suppresses aggressive humanoid spawns in the vicinity, and repels existing aggressive humanoids. It also adds a defensive bonus against humanoid attacks on members of the camp owner's group.


• Creature Medical module: Increases the natural healing of pets within the camps, and adds a bonus to pet stims used in camp


• Garage: A facility available to repair vehicles in the field. The repair would cost cash just as in town, and that money would go to the government. Works as a Vehicle recall module.


• Crafting station module: The module would provide a crafting station of a particular type in the camp


• Evacuation Shuttle module: The module would allow players to shuttle back to town, but not into camp


• Faction networking module: The module allows the purchase of faction supplies and registers the camp on the planetary map.

As to what level / typeeach of these modules should be declared, that is up for discussion here.

• As well as to where their schematics should be in the profession system, and at what skill level.

As well, consider the possibility of having multiple levels of the each type of module:

• Level 2 Turret: Small arms fire


• Level 3 Turret: Machine gun


• Level 4 Turret: Rocket launcher

Note I did not provide a Level 1 Turret, because that would allow people to create a Basic Camp with a Turret in it.

• My suggestion is that that form of schematic be given to the Novice Squad Leader for instance, by making the Novice SLcamp have a Level3 Humanoidmodule slot

As well... How should the Hunting cabin may fit in this system? Perhaps a Level 4 Humanoid module that changes the camp to a permanent structure?

Comments?

----

Note, I will have to open this topic up to the other professions involved once we have had a crack at it. Namely the Scouts and Squad Leader professions will be invited in Version 3.0.

• Those those of you from those communities can certainly invite them to participate now if you wish.

[Edit: pooched the link at the top. ]

Message Edited by NRaas on 01-10-2004 01:19 PM

I disagree with most of the module ideas presented here. There are only three reasons I ever pull out a camp:
1.To generate vehicles or to call pets. This is the reason 60% of my camps are produced, and this is the reason that I sell crates of basic camps to creature handlers by the dozen.
2.XP. As a general rule, on the third mission that my group does (we've got about 4-5 of us that hunt with each other regularly) I ask them to stop healing once we start the first lair's spawn, so we're good and hurt at the end, and so we don't have to wait very long for me to get full XP for the camp (they heal up in the camp instead of during battle). This is about 35% of my camps.
3.Healing. With the HQ camp I can heal back my wounds. I almost never open a camp for this while in a group because it's only rarely an issue, or it's taken care of when I pull up camps for XP. I only use this when soloing. That's about the other 5% or so. If I didn't need Survival XP I'd probably only pull out a camp while in a group if we'd suffered a narrow escape from a very tough situation, and that is very rare.

Now, first of all, the crafting process for creating camps doesnot need to get more complicated. That would be a seriously backward step, especially for Scout camps. As it is, unless I have a camp ready, I have to stop fighting well in advance of us finishing the mission to make sure that I have the camp ready before the lair's destroyed or the group doesn't have the patience to wait on it. I think that if something additional that was actually useful and desirable were possible for Ranger camps, then thereshould be optional module slots, that's a fantastic idea. But they shouldn't be required for some of the most basic elements of a camp, especially the pet/vehicle recall module.

I also think you should be able to add a great number of modules to Ranger camps. If you limit it to two modules, but your group needs three, then you have to disband and create a new one? That just doesn't make sense. Stock up one camp withloads of optional modules so Rangers have the option of making uber camps if they want to spend the time and resources on modules. It means less frustration and more need for camps, and yet has only one downside: Rangers wouldn't have to use as many resources [compared to having to re-make camps because they can't fit needed modules into one camp], and would therefore be able to sell more of what they harvest.

This is what I'd change to that vision:

• Basic, Multiperson, and Improved Camp Kits remain unchanged in every way - customization should only be available to professional camp builders (Rangers), for simplicity if nothing else.


• The Pet/Vehicle Recall Module, and Creature Suppression Module are both out. These should be an innate, non-optional trait ofall camps, no matter the type.


• Crafting Station Module is a nice idea, but HTFB kits would need to be cheaper to make to reflect this trait being taken away. Likewise, the Humanoid Medical Module reflects a trait that Ranger camps already have, implying that the production cost of the camp covers this trait. Adding a module for this should reduce the cost of all Ranger camps. Better yet? Don't make it a module at all, just keep it as a trait of all Ranger camps.


• I would much rather see Droid Engineers get the ability to make Personal Shuttle Pods than to see Rangers offering a service like this. It absolutely does not fit with the Ranger vision, in my opinion. Yes, it would be useful, but it would also be extremely high-tech for a Ranger, especially considering that if anyone could build an automated Shuttleport-Return Device, it would be a Droid Engineer (or maybe master artisan). But they should be limited so that they can only be usedfrom a Ranger's camp.


• The Creature Pheromone Module idea is great, but I think it would be problematic and contrary if it were an option for Ranger camps. This effect should be something that a Ranger can produce with a separate, non-camp item.


• The level that camp kits become available to Rangers does not need to be changed at all. Part of what I like about the Ranger profession is that, as soon as you start into it, you can make use of a very good camp. Take that away and many Rangers are going to be unappreciated for weeks of their career.


• Master Rangers should get a totally new camp that produces effects that can't be reproduced anywhere in the game. Moving the HTFB Kit up to Master Level is inappropriate, because the HTFB isn't worthy.

The only modules listed that I think are useful enough for them to ever be needed by players are:
1. Entertainer Stage/Lounge Module
2. Combat Fortification Module
3. Creature Medical Module
4. Mission Terminal Module (saw this elsewhere - allowing groups to get missions from a camp doesn't take anything away from anyone else, and allows groups to use normally unused portions of planets)
5. Humanoid Defensive Barrier Module (I think this should only suppress new spawns, and should have no affect on existing enemies - it makes sense that Desert Demons would "move on" when they see a large camp, but it doesn't make sense that a group of them who are already there would be scared off by all the wounded adventurers sitting in lawn chairs.)
6. Garage Module (but only if the module costs a bundle to make and is made by master artisans; this would be handy for a number of players, but should be something they're willing to pay for too.)

High Quality Camp Kits:
3 module slots
Can use modules 1-3
Field Base Kits:
4 module slots
Can use modules 1-6
High Tech Field Base Kits:
5 module slots
Can use modules 1-6

One of the main things I don't like about the vision you've presented is that it's needlessly complicated. Part of the allure of playing an artisan-based profession is the complexity involved in trying to get the best possible item you can, and what kind of achievement that represents. Camps are expendable, short-term tools that have to be made in quantity by a profession that is based mainly on combat usefulness. Camps should not, in any manner, approach the complexity of products made by artisan-based elite professions.

Also, I think that a camp should be a camp, should be a camp. No experimenting at all. Not so with the modules; I think those represent a prime opportunity for experimentation. (Imagine a Garage Module with 50% efficiency, allowing vehicle repairs to cost 50% less - you'd pay 3K for one of those for your big raids, wouldn't you?)