Ranger Archive
Thread: A few suggestions on Ranger Improvement
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Datchery
Mon May 03, 2004 1:22 pm
#1
I was a Master Ranger on Starsider for quite a while so these are the main 'problem areas' with Ranger and what the best fixes I can think of are.
1) Problems: Traps, Rescue, Camouflage, Camp Sites, Combat Capability in terms of PvE, Foraged Items
Problem #1) Traps -The main issue with traps (as I see it) is they are not cost effective. This is to mean they have more drawbacks to them than they do advantages. This is actually a similar issue, I think, with Commandos and their expendable items (like grenades and rocket launcher style weapons) First Problem: We are stopped dead immovable while throwing a trap, because the traps max throwing range is 48m any creature with a ranged attack is easily hitting us, and any melee creature can get within range of us and start hitting. Also, because our trapping skill directly points to our ability to sucessfully use any trap on a creature, and that skill caps at 100 we are simply incapable of using traps on the higher danger creatures (krayt/kimogila) and even if we could, I find it dubious at best that anyone would hold still for as long as it takes to use the trap. As it is, once I mastered ranger, I found that I could kill my target faster using my combat profession skills (master marksman) and that traps would rarely be worth the time and resources they take to make and then use. (I would rather have the action points for example so that I could use them to absorb damage or deal it out) Part of this is inherant in what the traps 'do' At master level, there are only about 4 traps worth using The Flash Bomb, Sonic Pulse, Adhesive Mesh and the Glow-Wire Trap. These 4 traps do every type of effect that traps are even capable of at this time. However, because the Adhesive Mesh requires 13 polymer, something that a pure Ranger is incapable of acquiring on their own, it is usually passed over for the Phecnacine Dart which also traps creatures. (I would also note that the Adhesive mesh says it also deals a great deal of damage to action, but I haven't found this to be the case in practice) Coupled with the fact that the mesh only gives you an absurdly low 2 traps, it is simply not economical in any situation to use an adhesive mesh, espcially when the failure rate for using them seems to be much higher than on the phecnacine darts.
The Solution: I see this coming in two parts. 1) Change what types of traps we have (perhaps fixing Adhesive so it does significant damage to action, the way the noise maker does to mind. Increase the damage bonus and length of effectiveness when using glow-wire traps and traps of that type, as currently you seem to be better off just shooting the creature instead of wasting time throwing the trap. Add a state type (unconcious)and a new type of trap as well as a new master level weapon for Rangers: Tranquilizer Guns and Darts. With a tranq gun, Rangers could use traps from the full 64m range that most weapons do. The cert would be Master Ranger. It would have AP1 when using the specialized trap darts. You would load a dart with the trap type (or just load the gun) and it would function as a normal weapon in that regard, doing no 'actual' damage unless the dart in question was supposed to do some. The unconcious state would be useful to Bio-Engineers I think, but any attack on the animal would wake it up. Second Weapon: Something doing 'Restraint' Damage. Now, this would make Rangers true animal hunters, they would posess the only 'weapon' capable of getting through all animal defense (though I think this would require adding protection to some of the truly large game that currently has none.)
Problem #2) Rescue - As we currently stand, I simply don't know why we would use this. While it 'is' possible for a Ranger to outrun creatures using burst run, once the creature is far enough away from us it will lose interest on and go back to its original target. Furthermore, this doesn't actually 'work' if you target the creature you 'want' to draw away. Instead you have to use it on a teammate, this is somewhat cumbersome in practice. In addition there are 'very' few instances where a Ranger is more capable of dealing with whatever it is they are trying to rescue anyone else from as even with our bonuses to hit creatures, we simply aren't as good vs them as your average rifleman/carbineer/istoleer/tka etc...
Solution: I recommend that when using Rescue Rangers receive a movement bonus (i.e instant free burst run) as well as melee and ranged defense bonuses, around +10-20 each. This would make rescue a skill used not just because it is the compassionate thing to do, but also because it would be tactically sound in a party.
Problem #3) Camouflage - Put Simply, this is so highly expensive to make that (Taking around 100 res sometimes just getting 4-6 kits) the failure rate on it ought to be dropped dramatically at master. I even had a +17 to camouflage but I 'still' would put it on and have it instantly removed by coming within 50m of things on Dathomir. Making it very difficult to have it removed would be nice, it would also be nice if the Camouflage removed you from hostile enemy radar.
Solution: Make the chance of failure go up the longer the camouflage is 'tested' (At first test 0% chance, at each following check, add 1% to a maximum of 7-10%, lowering this maximum number the higher you are above 100, i.e 1% for each 10 points you have over the max to a minimum of 3-5%) Removing our visibility from radar would be really nice, but not nearly as important as having the failure rate lowered I think.
Problem #4) Camping Sites - I think most everyone knows where I am going with this one, as most of us could have figured out when they announced no longer requiring camp site to pull out pets/vehicles/droids. The High Tech Field Base is very pretty, I can't argue with that. I am really amazed when I see them, they are works of art. I like that they contain two crafting stations. However, as people can use droids to let them heal their wounds, it really just doesn't seem worth it to pull out a field base or even a tiny camp in order to do anything. I can remember the last time I actually saw a camp being used in game. It was about a week ago, and it was a novice scout. A new player. The fact of the matter is that camp sites not being required makes them simply a novelty at this stage.
Solution - Add the following to the high tech base and sprinkle some of it accordingly down the line: They are supposed to repel large creatures, make this a reality by allowing a Ranger to put optional parts in, for example, Turrets. Add a 'mess kit' which gives rangers the ability to combine foraged foods increasing the maximum effectiveness they have, and decreasing the amount those foods fill. Lastly, but certainly not least. In the Higher end Bases add this: Hide Tanning Station. The purpose of this station? It will allow Rangers to create a unique item. Armor Powerups. These powerups would have but one purpose, increasing defenses vs creatures. As it currently stands there are no armor powerups that I am aware of in the game, but this addition would simultaneously give use to the higher camp sites & give Rangers an 'edge' when it comes to player vs creature combat, something that Rangers deserve.
Problem #5) Foraged Items - They fill you up more than 50% at the same time providing fewer bonuses for less time than any spice (granted, no downer) or any of the various foods that buff stats. And needless to say, even the worst doctor buffs are far superior. It simply doesn't make sense that grubs (+10 health/+10 action for 60 seconds) would even exist. Unless their purpose is only to be fed to pets, in which case I wonder why Rangers even 'want' a bonus to foraging as it would seem 'more' useful to just give it to Creature Handlers.
Solution - Assuming that foraged goods are 'meant' to be eaten by players the following: Add new types of foods that are rarer and can 'only' be foraged at the higher levels. Reduce the filling of the foraged foods by half (allowing someone to eat 2-3) and/or move some of the filling to liquids (as the idea is to get nourishment for both food/water content)Secondly, allow foraged foods to be combined into stews and mixed dishes at a Campsite (they do have fires and stuff after all) that combine the effectiveness, but maintain lowered filling. Without these changes to the foraged foods, Rangers just don't seem to have a good reason to use them. Also, to tack this on, it would be nice if Rangers had an obvious bonus to fishing (perhaps masters would get in game hints occasionally about whether to reel in or pull left or something) Maybe allow Rangers to determine if there are many fish in a given section of the lake (similar to the way surveying is done for minerals). This actually makes me think it would be nice if Artisans could construct Fishing Boats so we could take them out to the center of a lake where bigger and greater numbers of fish are catchable.
Problem #6) Combat Capability in terms of PvE - This is pretty simple. Anyone fully devoted to a combat class can run circles around us in efficiency in killing creatures.
I think this would be easily solved by either: Giving us bonus damage/to hit/defense vs Creatures, more than we already receive from the hunting tree. OR implementing the various ideas prior to this (i.e. tranq guns that fire our traps from 64m and ones that do restraint damage, making camouflage work better, etc...
As that is I feel those are the key weaknesses of the Ranger as well as my proposed solutions to our problem areas.
-Datchery (comments please) Hanniford
Kiryoku
Mon May 03, 2004 11:49 pm
#3
Datchery wrote:
Problem #4) Camping Sites ...
Solution -.... In the Higher end Bases add this: Hide Tanning Station. The purpose of this station? It will allow Rangers to create a unique item. Armor Powerups. These powerups would have but one purpose, increasing defenses vs creatures. As it currently stands there are no armor powerups that I am aware of in the game, but this addition would simultaneously give use to the higher camp sites & give Rangers an 'edge' when it comes to player vs creature combat, something that Rangers deserve.
interesting idea... i definitely haven't heard this before... have you considered mentioning this in Nemo0's "potential ranger" thread?... as far as i know he hasn't compiled a list of camp ideas yet, he might just toss it in with some of the outdoorsman ideas he's considering...
Datchery
Mon May 03, 2004 11:59 pm
#4
Well, I was just going with my own perspective on what would make Ranger most useful, didn't want to step on anyone elses toes as yet.
Although it's my understanding that conceal no longer works on other players and it no longer protects vs NPC humanoids, if true, I would say that 'was' one of the better aspects of being a Ranger. You were able to effectively stealth your whole party in highly dangerous areas like vs Nightsisters/Stormtroopers/Tuskans etc...
I mean, if you can't conceal other people, and it no longer protects vs NPC humanoids, what is the difference between a set of Camouflage and just Masking your scent? Conceptually, Camouflage is something that ought to protect you visually, whereas mask scent is supposed to well, make it so things can't smell you. Hence the Camou kit should protect vs Animals AND People whereas Mask Scent should only work vs Animals.
-Datchery
Nemo0
Tue May 04, 2004 6:21 am
#5
Kiryoku wrote:
yeh, that conceal issue is a big one... it's been going round and round here for a while now...
as for stepping on anyone's toes... don't worry about it, i'm pretty sure nemo0 created that post for everyone to collaberate with their ideas... at least, i hope so... if not, i'm really sorry nemo0!...
seriously though, good stuff...
Don't worry, I did. As for the ideas, some very nice stuff in there. I'm just worried the skill tree is getting really long already. Oh well, more reading for whoever wants to bother
. I hope you don't mind if I move some of this stuff in (although I need to run now so it might be a bit before I can do anything else).
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
theshagnasty
Tue May 04, 2004 6:32 am
#6
The sad thing about posts like this is that it actually reminds me about "skills" that I had completly forgotten having.
Forage and Rescue were removed from my toolbar so long ago that I had quite literallyforgotten about them. I now carry no camps in my inventory, where I used to carry a crate of the small ones and at least one HTFB ready to go.
Bummer eh....
Nice ideas though.
Kiryoku
Tue May 04, 2004 12:09 pm
#7
yeh, that conceal issue is a big one... it's been going round and round here for a while now...
as for stepping on anyone's toes... don't worry about it, i'm pretty sure nemo0 created that post for everyone to collaberate with their ideas... at least, i hope so... if not, i'm really sorry nemo0!...
seriously though, good stuff...
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