Ranger Archive
Thread: 100th Ranger Rant Post (or Rangers vs Scouts, part 2)
Ok kids...
I've been glossy eyed for a week reading all of your wonderful posts... many of them good and some of them just plain bantha poodoo...
But now its time for my 100th post/rant... (big whoop.. I know).... and I wanted to mark the occassion with a bang.... thus I give you...
Ranger vs. Scout - Episode II - Attack of the Campers
So for those who haven't been keeping track of their skill points, if you are a Ranger, you are also a Master Scout... however, you may not realize that when you became a Ranger you decided that you wanted to be something greater than a Master Scout... thus you went to your local camping expert - that goofy looking Ranger Trainer who most likely had a tent pitched in a city (what a moron) and said... SIGN ME UP!!!
So let me ask you something Ranger... Why wasn't Master Scout enough for you?
You had the chance to look at all the skills that a Ranger can eventually receive... (which is 75% more of the same thing you had as a Master Scout) and yet you still said... SIGN ME UP!!!
And so you paid the money.... signed the papers and then went on your merry Ranger way... basically doing the exact same thing you were doing as a Master Scout.
In fact... how long did you actually play as a Master Scout? Did you even consider it a milestone or did you just look at it as a "relatively free" powerup you needed before you got to Ranger? I'd venture to guess that if you had your eyes set on Ranger... there was verylittle time between the time you gained Master Scout and the time you said... SIGN ME UP!!!
Unfortunately, this has lead to an oversite on the part of most Rangers. You simply don't realize that all you really are... is a Master Scout (give or take one skill called /rescue).
Rescue Rangers
"What the heck are you saying Zarn?!? I'm a Ranger!"
Uh huh... sure you are.... You're a bonafide Rescue Ranger alright. In fact you are so much a Ranger that I bet your tents look special. I bet that you walk around Corellia all day /Rescue-ing people... I'm sure that you click the /rescue icon at least once......a week.
A side note for the not so keen..... take a good look at the /Rescue icon. The stick figure waving his hands... That is you - the target... now see that little target circle? ... That is the creature aiming to kill you!so.. um... Yeah... Iguess it makes a lot more sense now huh... so don't go moaning when YOU CLICK THAT BUTTON and die. You might as well click the HeadshotSelf 3 icon instead - they both do the same thing.
By the way,a Master Scout doesn't have /rescue... only Rangers do... so if you're a Master Scout and want to use /Rescue, go find yourself a lonesome little Ranger Trainer, plunk down your credits and 10k scouting experienceand say... SIGN ME UP!!!
"But Zarn, I don't use /Rescue that much... I mainly just hunt creatures, harvest them and make camps..."
Whoa...there Ranger Rick... before you go any farther... Guess what?
-=Thems Scouting SkillzzzZZZzzzZZZzzzorz=-
Thats right! You great Ranger You! You made it to Master Scout and didn't even realize it! You went and said SIGN ME UP!!! and didn't realize that you could do everything Rangers can do already!!!
LOL!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
Oh oh oh... sorry... maybe you really really wanted that /rescue skill...
Sorry my mistake...
Master(Boy/Girl) Scouts
So you mean to tell me that you weren't happy with just Master Scout?!? Obviously something lured you away from that fine profession and into the ranks of the Rangers. Perhaps you were sitting there with your trusty online skill calculator and thinking to yourself..
"hmm.. I'm already a Master Scout... if I go into Ranger, that would allow me to get to that really really cool looking High Tech Field Base!"
Perhaps you were just trying to figure out what else to spend your points on... I mean.. squad leader might be cool... creature handling doesn't excite you...or maybe you just want to be a pure blooded Master Ranger.
No matter what your reasons... you were lured to the Ranger class with full knowledge that you were going to be a Super Master Scout++, or in other words, you'd have no other skills (other than /rescue) that you didn't already have as a Master Scout.
So why complain that Rangers need to be different than Scouts? You're not happy with the skills that you already had as a Master Scout with just with a few added points in them? Is it possible that you have become the victim of self-delusion?
Go ahead... raise your hand. We know the truth. Every single Ranger knew what was coming... we just refused to believe that "that's all folks".
Dreaming of Power Rangers
Even though you were a Master Scout, you weren't happy with it. You looked at the Ranger skill tree... and thought to yourself... SIGN ME UP!!! And then you came to this board and started griping that Rangers need to be different than Scouts.... why? WHY!?!?
I'll tell you why.
The reason we aren't happy as Rangers and the reason Master Scout isn't enough is because we see the word "Ranger" and it conjures up a host of knowledge in our heads.
In our culture and in our history, Rangers have a clearly defined role to play. We acknowledge and agree that Rangers usually start as Scouts (both from historical perspective and from the very skill tree of the U.S. military). But just because a Ranger can do everything a Scout can, doesn't mean thata Scout can do everything a Ranger can. (well unless you're in the Star Wars universe it seems)
In our minds, a Ranger is someone who uses the skills of a Scout and then adds to them a vast array of skills that enables them to go from being a reconnaissance specialist toa behind enemy lines infantryman.
Have you ever heard the slogan "Rangers lead the way?" It's the slogan of the Army Ranger.
If you've never read the Ranger Creed... read this and see if THIS is what you wanted to be....
The Ranger Creed
Recognizing that I volunteered as a Ranger, fully knowing the hazards of my chosen profession, I will always endeavor to uphold the prestige, honor, and high esprit de corps of my Ranger Regiment.
Acknowledging the fact that a Ranger is a more elite soldier who arrives at the cutting edge of battle by land, sea, or air, I accept the fact that as a Ranger my country expects me to move farther, faster and fight harder than any other soldier.
Never shall I fail my comrades. I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight and I will shoulder more than my share of the task whatever it may be. One-hundred-percent and then some.
Gallantly will I show the world that I am a specially selected and well-trained soldier. My courtesy to superior officers, neatness of dress and care of equipment shall set the example for others to follow.
Energetically will I meet the enemies of my country. I shall defeat them on the field of battle for I am better trained and will fight with all my might. Surrender is not a Ranger word. I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy and under no circumstances will I ever embarrass my country.
Readily will I display the intestinal fortitude required to fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the mission though I be the lone survivor.
RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
**edit** Straight!
So tell me... is THIS what you SIGNED UP FOR???
If so... then you obviously didn't read the skills... because SWG Rangers are NOTHING like the above. (Oh sorry I keep forgetting that /rescue skill)
You want to know what's sad....
Even the Saturday Morning Live Action - POWER RANGERS are more Rangers than us... but if SOE ever purchased they show, they may rename them the POWER SCOUTS.
You know what the Power Rangers do?
They seek-and-destroy evil.
You know what SWG Rangers do?
They make High Tech Field Bases and Crawl Fast. (oh and they /rescuea.k.a./headshotSelf3)
Sad isn't it. Even the Power Rangers are more Ranger than us.
The Sad Rescue Ranger Truth
If this is all hitting a little close to home, then you have my symphathy. Maybe we are just victims of our own assumptions... maybe we really really thought that even though the skills told the truth, that someday, somehow, we'd be more than just Master Scout. We saw the word "Ranger" and read the copywriting in the manuals and guides and it all pointed to this great grand class that inspired us to dream.
I know that there's a Ranger developer out there somewhere at SOE and that Mineras is feverishly trying to persuade him of our misconceptions about the Ranger class... but honestly... is it SOE's fault?? No. They were up front and honest about what a Ranger is. A Ranger is clearly just an advanced Master Scout. When SOE talks about fixes for Rangers, they place the info in the Scout section... because we - don't- even - qualify as a separate class.
I think in the back of our minds though, we all hold out this little dream that says... Rangers aren't simply Scouts... Rangers are everything that is in that Ranger Creed.... we are the ones who lead the way. We're not some hunter/gatherer... we're the front line.. heck we're behind the enemy line... That's where we want to be...
And by golly... if I ever meet an enemy Scout on the battlefield... I better be able to blow blow his brains out before he even knew what hit him.... because that's what I've been trained to do.
So if that's what you all thought when you dreamed of being a Ranger....
Then tell SOEto SIGN ME UP!!! for some of that action.
Enough of this harvesting more resources, building better camps, examining creatures eyeballs, foraging through the garbage, and crawling 10mph crap....
- Zarn the Ranting Ranger
<sarcasm>happy 100th post to me...</sarcasm>
XionLion, first of all, great read. Very entertaining and more importantly, accurate. I agree whole heartedly with your arguement. I myself said "Sign me up" fully knowing that we are little more that Master Scout +'s. I hope and pray nightly that they change Rangers and my gamble was worth it. As far as I'm concerned, they don't have to be the most kick ass person on the battlefield. The don't need to nerf scouts or anything like that. They don't need to boost the skills we already have. Is what they DO need to do is make Rangers unique, somehow. Ok, I've said my peace.
I fully agree with Xion's analysis of what the ranger class could/should be. As far as the opinion that rangers shouldn't be a combat class - or shouldn't have anything to do with combat, let me offer up some counterpoints from my perspective.
Let's start with that whole ranger thing. Xion is dead on here. Let the scouts scout. They're the guys trained in survival and wilderness travel who take point so to speak. Their role should be intelligence gathering, traversing the wilds, using their wilderness experience to benefit them in probing. Their ability to go out on thier own makes them invaulable to a military commander for intelligence gathering purposes, or allows the solo/casual/non-pvper to go off and enjoy a big game hunt without the worries of needing to head back to town constantly to refresh and refuel. A scout is still an enjoyable class under any of these definitions, with all of the same abilities and tactics they currently have. Nothing should change with the scout class (other than the mechanics described and brought up to the devs on the scout board).
But the rangers...
The ranger SHOULD be a more military/combat oriented class. We should be the class that goes in behind enemy lines, skirmishes with enemy troops, and rolls up their flanks. We should be more like the rangers in todays military service - guerilla fighters and light infantrymen, completely able to operate within the wilds. I feel that as a ranger, I should be redoubtable in defense, tenacious in offense, and unmatched in swift hit-and-run raids. We should be unparalleled in overland movement, and dead hard fighters as well. We should be fully able to track enemy troop movements, as well as migrating animals. Not to mention the ability to do all of this from the shadows of some sort of /conceal.
Currently the ranger is none of this. I think SOE missed out on the opportunity to add a class that fits the description above when they chose and implemented the ranger skillsets. I daresay that no one reading this would argue with me that the current ranger abilites have nothing new and unique to offer anyone who is already a master scout, and therefore to a lesser extenta novice scout. The ranger can just do scouty things better.
I hate to use these words, and I don't use them lightly, but to acheive what I think a ranger should be would require a complete change to the current ranger certs. It would likely have to require a consolidation of the wayfaring and "camp-building" lines into a single tree. Traps would work differently - no longer the grenade bomb kind, but booby-traps and the like. Imagine a swoop entering a forest to find out that someone stretched a line between two of the trees...
So now we would have a camp/wayfaring tree, and a trapping tree. The camping tree would be consolidated to represent our increased abilities to operate effectively in the wilds, and the changes to the trapping tree would better represent the type of trapping we do. So that leaves two lines...
One of the lines should be a stealth/camoflauge line all to its own. The wayfaring line accurately represents our abilities versus creatures, so this new line should better reflect our ability to stay undiscovered from humanoids (namely, your faction enemies or anyone you don't want to have find you). /Conceal would go here, as well as new camoflauge bonuses. For anyone asking why the current camo bonuses wouldn't apply to anything in this tree - well, it's a lot harder to hide when someone's actively looking for you. This tree would only apply to swoop gangs, rebel scouts, Imperial stormtroopers on patrol, and so on and so forth. The only way to balance that camo ability is to reduce its effectiveness when used against an intelligent, technologically advanced foe. The new type of camo check would do that nicely.
Our last tree to fill then, should be a combat-oriented tree. It's difficult to decide what should go here. The bounty hunter's abilites suit him VERY well in doing what he does. The commandoes are the hardcore of the weapons junkies, bringing in the stuff that goes boom very loudly. The elite professions are fairly well thought out, with the assault, sniping, and close-range gunfighting archtypes pretty well taken care of. Any new combat abilites could borrow somewhat from these, or they could be completely unique. My personal favorite would be some sort of ability to allow the individual involved in combat to directly support his comrades, sort of like a covering fire ae ability. It would have to be tweaked no doubt, considering the current way pvp damage is dealt. It would deal low damage, but force position changes so that the folks being fired on would be unable to pursue effectively while the firererers (ha!) could scramble back to cover. Of course, this may very well be overpowered in that it would be used more in an assault role than a defensive one. You get the drift though. More combat support abilites than raw damage.
All in all, I think the points I've splattered up there would do a great deal more justice to a ranger class than the current skillset. I know I've forgotten something, and left a lot open for discussion, but that's just what I wanted to do 
Have fun and drop some feedback in here 
Tedrah wrote:Our last tree to fill then, should be a combat-oriented tree. It's difficult to decide what should go here. The bounty hunter's abilites suit him VERY well in doing what he does. The commandoes are the hardcore of the weapons junkies, bringing in the stuff that goes boom very loudly. The elite professions are fairly well thought out, with the assault, sniping, and close-range gunfighting archtypes pretty well taken care of. Any new combat abilites could borrow somewhat from these, or they could be completely unique.
Great points... I would like to see them give us a weapon line like they gave smugglers. They continued with a pistol line.. why can't we get a continued rifle, unarmed or carbine line?
Well you got me right there. On first look and story line of Star Wars, Ranger seem like it should be between class of a Commando and Bount Hunter. I jumped right into the name thing, and once I started it and REALLY looked at the skills........DOH! What am I am going to do in PVP. I can run away fast on slopes, be used for pit stops between battles, and I can live by myself with out going into town. Boy Scouts material here now, no matter how you look at it. Maskscent, it ok with creatures, but not another player. If anyone thinks Wayfaring is going to help them with another player, heh everyone has a radar screen that will pick you up. No weapon skills to be study, and what it takes to get xp's to get better camps (eeeekkkkk).
Still I tell myself that they are going to make changes someday. Glad to see that it is not just me who feels this way.
A friends son, who is in the Rangers, look at the skills and said, "$#@ &^*((), that is not a Ranger." LOL For he wanted to see what Star Wars Ranger look like and his skills.
no kidding...
At this point I'd settle for the "lone ranger" as a solid character clase...
- Zarn
Well.. Im only doing it for the 50+ skill modifier in terrain negotiation...
Crawling around is so much fun!
Oh, and Im a Rifleman so yes.. Im seriuos
I believe most of us, especially those that were scout/rangers in beta for sometime did know the things that were not yet taken away from them at the end of beta. But that doesn't mean we don't hope for improvement in the Elite Profession. I think Artisans went it to their professions knowing that things weren't right, but they still want to see the best come out of this game. All the combat skills, such as Master Riflemen, Pistoler, Commando, etc. certainly hope that there will be improvements in their ChosenElite or Hybrid Professions. Six months from now they will be very bored if they can not continue to grow, gain new abilities and so forth and possibly new Elite/Hybrid professions as new expansions come out as well.
I guess what I am saying is that even though you knew what seemed to be there, doesn't preclude hoping and campaigning for improvements. Every player and every profession desires new skills and changes criteria for certain skills in their chosen professions. I feel for starters the Devs did a fairly good job. This a huge game with a lot different vision for its community. But if I were Dev, I would want this game to continue to grow and to become even better then its current status. Whose to say that they don't dream of even totally new basic professions as well as new Elite and Hybrid professions. Go Devs!!!
Jolandir
I happen to like pure scouting (actually exploring and wandering, not just burning thru scout so I can be a BH or CH). So therefore, I want to take on a profession that improves my scouting abilities. Hmmm, it would appear that Ranger is exactly what I'm looking for.
The most common complaint about Rangers is that they are nothing more than anadvanced scout, when in reality this is exactly what they are supposed to be. Granted, they could probably use a few tweaks and additions, but those who are complaining about being Rangers are the ones who were probably expecting something different.