Ranger Archive

NRass, I just read your Modular Camp proposal V4 and got very worried. I see lots of issues on it that should be fixed before this proposal goes to the devs, cause ACCORDING TO HOW U ARE CLASIFYING THE MODULE TYPES, THIS PROPOSAL CAN BE VERY NEGATIVE FOR US RANGERS!

First of all NRass, this post IS NOT A FLAME. I admire your work as our Ranger correspondent and i am very thankful to you to all for what u have done for our profession. Many other profession don’t have the luck of having a correspondent even as half as efficient as u are, and I understand that this proposal has the intention to give Rangers and Squad Leaders some uniqueness and self identity. I have nothing against SL, I actually like the idea of two professions working together to achieve what they want, specially if one of those professions is as broken and as in bad shape as SL are. Even though in this post I will strongly criticize some key aspect of your proposal, it doesn’t mean i dont respect your effort on putting it up together.

BUT PLEASE, TAKE A LOOK AGAIN AT YOUR PROPOSAL AND NOTICE THAT NOT ONLY SOME OF THE BEST AND COOLEST OF MODULES U ARE GIVING THEM TO SQUAD LEADERS ONLY, ITS ALSO THAT THERE ARE MANY MODULES THAT FIT PERFECTLY WELL WITH THE OUTDOORSMAN VISION AND THAT U ARE GIVING THEM TO SL FOR THEIR EXCLUSIVE USE, WHEN THEY MAY EVEN FIT BETTER WIT RANGERS THAN SL.

By this I am not asking that SL shouldn’t have them, what I mean is that there are many HUMANOID modules ( and hence, according to you proposal can only be used on SL camps) that can perfectly fit well on a Ranger camp and that I don’t understand why u think we Rangers can’t have them. On the followingposts I will explain which modules I think u are misconceiving as humanoid only modules and I will explain the logic behind why I think that an OUTDOORSMAN as we are proposing the Ranger to be should be able to deploy them too. Also, these can be asily corrected, so I will propose a solution too:

ISSUE # 1

Hospital Bay
oModule Level: 2
oModule Type: Humanoid
oProfession: Doctor
oCost: Moderate (4)
oDescription:
Enhanced version of the Medical bay that provides an increased wound healing rate for humanoids (Players and troop pets)
Adds a bonus to doctor enhancements used in camps

PROBLEM: We Rangers get hurt when we fight against creatures too, and we are humanoids, so if u only gives us the veterinary bay, it would mean that only SL camps get to have the highest healing modifiers for players … so the question is, ISN’T AN OUTDOORSMAN A MASTER OF SURVIVAL?. To surviving also means having the means of deploying the highest available Doctor medical technology so he can cure HIMSELF at a faster rate, and by stressing HIMSELF I am referring as to be able to heal effectively not only his creature pets as your veterinary bay restricts us. Also, and I really hate to say this, but currently Ranger Camps give the highest healing modifiers when healing PLAYERS in the game, and by taking away this and giving it to SL you I believe u are actually proposing to NERF us. If u want SL to have a higher healing modifiers for faction troops its fine with me, actually it makes sense for them to have it, but I don’t see the logic of why us rangers can’t have camps with the highest healing modifiers to heal OURSELVES and not only our pets. This veterinary bay restricition will only benefit CH Rangers and will mean a NERF for every other ranger that is not a CH.

SOLUTION: Make the Hospital Bay a GENERIC Module instead as a humanoid one, and make its healing modifier only applicable to PLAYERS and not to any pet of any kind, whilst adding a additional faction perk SICKBAY Module for SL camps that will have the healing modifier applied to the faction pets. Other solution would be to make the veterinary bay module healing modifiers applicable to players as well, but I personally prefer the first solution.

ISSUE #2
Garage
oModule Level: 2
oModule Type: Humanoid
oProfession: Artisan
oCost: Expensive (16)
oDescription: A facility available to repair vehicles in the field. The repair would cost cash just as in town, and that money would go to the government.

PROBLEM: We Rangers use vehicles too. We Rangers are supposed to be OUTDOORSMAN that can live in the wilderness without needing to go back to civilization to repair our gadgets. If we can put crafting stations, why cant we have Garages too?. What is the logic that only SL can have Garages and Ranger don’t?. Does this imply that Rangers are supposed to be riding mounts instead of vehicles?. I don’t think so. We do use vehicles, we are outdoorsman that are supposed to handle whatever eventuality that may happen while away form civilization, so we may be able to improvise a garage to fix our vehicles.

ISSUE #3
Evacuation Shuttle
oModule Level: 4
oModule Type: Humanoid
oProfession: Artisan
oCost: Expensive (24)
oDescription: A shuttle port that allows players to transport back to town. It would not allow players to travel to the camp however.

PROBLEM: First of all it shouldn’t be an actual Shuttle Port, it should be more like a Shuttle BEACON, that sends a signal to regular traffic planetary travel shuttles, informing them of the coordinates of the camp so it can make a quick stop on it and evacuate its players. Secondly, again, why cant a Ranger put such a Beacon on a camp of its own?. Again, an outdoorsman should be able to send distress signal when he is in an emergency and really needs to get back to civilization. I can’t see the logic why only SL camps would be the only ones with the ability to send such distress signal.

SOLUTION: Make this a GENERIC Module instead as a humanoid one.

ISSUE #4
Biogenic Amplifier
oModule Level: 3
oModule Type: Humanoid
oProfession: Bio Engineer
oCost: Moderate (8)
oDescription:
?The tender can add chef and smuggler goods into the device to produce a enhancing effect on every member of the group within the camp.
?The buff would not be as powerful as ingesting the item directly

I am a Ranger who basically does PvE and I DO use chef and smuggler products. FOOD and SPICES are useful on PVE too, I don’t see the logic of making a Biogenic Module a SL ONLY module. By this u are implying that Food and Spice should only be used for PvP and to fight NPC’s, which is WRONG. An OUTDOORSMAN should be able to set up a module that would improve the usage of any spice or food he sees fit when it comes to killing creatures more effectively.

SOLUTION: Make this a GENERIC Module instead as a humanoid one.

ISSUE#5
?Small Humanoid Offensive Parapet
oModule Level: 1
oModule Type: Humanoid
oProfession: Squad Leader
oCost: Moderate (4)
oDescription:
?Provides an offensive bonus against humanoids while the player is in the camp.
?In PvP, the bonus is applied to those players who are in the group of the camp tender
?Enables the camp to remain up during combat situation
?Small Arms Emplacement, Machine Gun and Rocket Launcher Nest as a Faction PvP only item.

PROBLEM: I see an unnecessary restriction here. I understand that by making the small arms, machine guns and RL a faction perk only it’s a way to improve the GCW, and actually it sounds cool to have a mini turret to defend the SL camp. But the problem I see with this, is that by making them an exclusive Faction based perk and by giving SL u are stripping away from rangers camps the possibility of having limited offensive DAMAGE abilities on creatures. Yes I know there are another modules that that will give offensive and defensive bonuses to rangers against creatures, and there is even one of those that will make a are adhesive mesh effect. This is cool, but why cant we also have som automated gun dealing some damge on aggressive creatures?. Its good to have defensive and offensive bonuses, but a extra gun can also. I am not asking for a Rocket Launcher or any other high damge weapon, because this can be highly unbalancing. It can be a very small automated gun that deals something like 30-50 Dmg, u have to make it less damage than any of the upcoming combat droids to be made by DE’s or any Non CH creatures ( so having such automated gun would never be better to having a combat droid or a pet), but just to serve as a extra gun, as a very limited aid against creatures.

SOLUTION: Leave the Small Arms empalcemnte, Gun Machine and RL as a SL faction perk BUT add an extra Automated Creature Repelling Gun module to be used on the Ranger Camps.

Well NRass, this is my proposal. I hope u can reconsider your current proposal so it wont take away too much from us rangers. As u may see, in my proposed solutions SL don’t lose anything. This post is not about not wanting SL to have enhancements in their profession. As I already said, there is nothing wrong with working with the SL on a joint effort to get improvements. This post is about asking for us Rangers to have some of this enhancements as well cause we do deserve them too. When I read your proposal I had the impression that it benefits SL more than it benefits us Rangers. I know that this may not have been your intention, but for the way its written and by the way u classify the modules, that’s the impression I got. So please NRass, you are our correspondent, your are the RANGER correspondent, so throw us a bone here! Make this proposal beneficial to us rangers too, don’t take away from our camps the highest healing modifiers, don’t make this proposal as if it would nerf us in such a way. Gives us some of those modules u conceived as SL exclusive to Rangers too, cause they do fit well with the outdoorsman vision and we deserve them too.

Eter Solwalker
Naritus Master Ranger/Master Carbineer/Novice Medic

FORGOT SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT!!! ACTUALLY THE MOST THINGIMPORTANT OF ALL!!! Sorry

DUH! forgot to write one last very important solution for the base problem. The base problem with NRass proposal is that since the advanced camps have very few Generic Slots, there are many of these modules that wont be possible to have allat the same time in a sole camp. AND THAT IS REALLY THE PROBLEM WITH CLASIFYING THEM AS HUMANOID ONLY,for they will only fit alltogether in a Squad Leader camp whileon a Ranger Camp they wont fit.

EXAMPLE:

ON A HTFB Camp, Rangers would not be able to have at the same time a HospitalBay,a Garage, Shuttle Beacon andBiogenic Amplifier, while a Squad Leader WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT ON ITS CAMP!.Such camp with these four modules looks more Ranger like to me than a SL Leader like camp. So that the real problem by making them HUMANOID modules, its highly unfair for us Rangers.

So,

MAIN ISSUE AND MAIN SOLUTION

MAIN PROBLEM: Leaving all these Modules as Humanoid Only will give SL the advantage of having them altogether on a same camp while rangers wont be able to do so. This is highly unbalancing, cause SL will be able to have all four of these modules plus more while rangers would only have the chance of having just only one of these in its sole Generic slot.Furthermore,the logic of making them humanoid only excludes them of theOUTDOORSMAN vision, when they really fit well with this vision. Why can't ahigh level advanced ranger campprovide the highest healing modifier for playerswhile providing a Biogenic AmplifierAT THE SAME TIME?????. That doens look very "outodormanish" to me. Biogenic Amplifier, Highest Healing Modifiers, Garages and Shuttle Beacon are very "outdoormanish" modules and rangers should be able have at least more than one of these at the same time.

MAIN SOLUTION: Make these Humanoid Modules Generic Modules as explained above AND GIVE ADVANCED CAMPS TWO HIGH LEVEL GENERIC SLOTS. This way it will be more balanced, cause BOTH RANGERS and SL will be able to have TWO of these on its most Advanced Camp.

There u go. This is my final post,I promise i didnt forget anything else.

Hope to hear your feedback

Eter

It's hard to find points to disagree with your proposal, but I do. Technically you're right, a Ranger could set up a sickbay too. But depending on your vision of what a Ranger is, it is or is not applicable. I personally don't see a ranger setting up a sickbay to heal himself. I see him/her as tougher and more robust then the average person and doesn't NEED to heal themselves until they have twice the wounds someone else does.
Sure, this isn't implemented in-game, unless you want to wait 2 hours in a high tech field base to heal your wounds automatically.

Your vision appears to be ofa ranger not being tougher, but having the ability to heal up between battles better then someone else to result in them being able to take twice the wounds over time. With that vision, you'd need the technical gadget of a sickbay, with mine you don't.

A garage? Again the vision differs. A vehicle isn't a Ranger gadget he/she may repair in the field because we're so good at doing so. We're rangers who know how to make camps and traps, we're not mechanics who know everything about speeders. Artisan is logically a much better choice. They'll know all about the mechanics and technical issues about speederbikes and swoops.

shuttle beacon: the beacon/port issue was raised by me too in the state of the profession thread. Don't worry: the beacon is the basic plan, not an actual port. I agree with you on this one, a Ranger should have the ability to put a beacon in his camp as well.

Bio-amp: hmmm, I hardly ever use food and drink myself. But the ability to ration food to your group is something that logically fits with SL in my head. I think Rangers should get a different ability to the same effect though, instead of a camp thingy, a Ranger should be able to ration /foraged goods to his group. Foraged goods aren't anywhere near as good as chef goods, true. I think a benefit could be that a Ranger ration will have double stats/duration and will not count against your total food consumption. Just throwing some suggestions around there, I'm no expert on food.

Creature Turret: Who camps because he wants to attack creatures?? Our playstyles can be completely different, but when i camp, I want to heal up. I don't have to worry about agro because all ranger camps are agro-repellant. I really don't see a Ranger in a machine gunner's nest mowing down the environment around him (not what you meant, but the image forming in my head is pretty funny )

three notes:

1. please use punctuation and paragraph spacing instead of those flashy huge colours

2. Rangers can have a medical bay, it ain't a hospital bay, but it's more then enough.

3. Im looking at the modular camp thread now and I must say I do agree with the fact that Rangers are at a disadvantage to SLs in available slots.

valid point is that there are level 4 creature modules, but no camps with level 4 creature slots...

I think a HT Field Base should get a level 3 humanoid slot instead of the creature one, and the option to have either a level 4 creature or level 4 generic slot.

generic slots aren't very useful because there are only 2 generic modules.

As NRass envisioned it, generic slots fit any and all modules. The "generic" modules are for scout camps only. I.E.a level 4 humanoid or a level 4 creature modules goes into a level 4 generic slot. Unless I'm so crazy-go-nuts that I completely missed the point of it =). which, of course is entirely possible.

In addition, my personal feelings on this are:

• all healing mods should be Ranger only. All buffing mods should be SL only.


• I still think the evacuation shuttle is too over-the-top but considering many consider the whole dang idea over-the-top, I suppose I don't mind asking for it. I understand that it's just a becon but I think that's more of a SL thing, and I don't really agree with it on principle in their skills, either.


• I still think that people should be able to totally customize their camps: i.e 12 total slots, rather than breaking them up into their componants.

But if I'm not mistaken, you seem to think EVERYTHING should be applicable on a Ranger camp. But as many have pointed out, we are the CAMPING experts. While I like the idea of having turrets (man, I LOVE it) I think that Squad Leaders would be more apt to use them. I agree me should have SOME perimeter defense, but last time I went camping, I didn't have a rocket launcher outside my tent. We're campers and we heal. They're SL's and they fortify. I would just like to see modules reflect the divergent nature of the two new ideas on wilderness survival. I LIKE the idea that SL forts get stuff we don't and we get stuff they don't .

"you seem to think EVERYTHING should be applicable on a Ranger camp. But as many have pointed out, we are the CAMPING experts. While I like the idea of having turrets (man, I LOVE it) I think that Squad Leaders would be more apt to use them. I agree me should have SOME perimeter defense, but last time I went camping, I didn't have a rocket launcher outside my tent."

Actually i dont think everything should be applicable to Ranger camps. In my post I only point out problems with 5 humanoid modules, while there are many other that do belong to SL and as so i don't ask for them ( Ex Rallying Point, Faction Network, Humanoid Parapet, etc). Its the same with the automated guns, i specify we rangers dont need rocket launcehrs nor npc attacking nor high damage guns, only a low damage automated gun for CREATURES only. SL can have the rest of the cool guns .

"I personally don't see a ranger setting up a sickbay to heal himself. I see him/her as tougher and more robust then the average person and doesn't NEED to heal themselves until they have twice the wounds someone else does"

"Rangers can have a medical bay, it ain't a hospital bay, but it's more then enough"

The real issue here is that by making Hospital Bay a Humanoid Module, u are basically giving to SL the highest playerhealing modifier module, so theycan get higher docto buffs and higher medic healing, while currently our camps are the ones who have it. My proposal is about making such module attainalbe by BOTH professions if they want it, while making the creture healing bonus a Ranger exclusive with the veterinary bay and the Faction troop healing bonus a SL exclusive withthe SICKBAY faction perk.( which by the way is an actual a proposal for adding a extra module for SL)

all healing mods should be Ranger only. All buffing mods should be SL only.

Interesting idea, but it seems very hard to apply. Cause i believethe current way on how thegame handles theMedic MOD system implies that the extenta doctor and medic can have higher buffs or heals is directly related to thei injury/wound treatmemt MOD, soboth healing and buffing are controlled by the same mod. So, to apply your proposal then devs would have to separate the mods for both healing and buffing ..... which of course is very problematic.

1. please use punctuation and paragraph spacing instead of those flashy huge colours

I agree, sorry for that one. . I actually noticed how annoying those colors could be after i posted. Is this green i am using now a bit better?

Garages???... we're not mechanics who know everything about speeders. Artisan is logically a much better choice. They'll know all about the mechanics and technical issues about speederbikes and swoops.

You are right. That 's why Rangers wont CRAFT THESE MODULES. Artisans will. Im just asking for the ability to deploy such artisan crafted modules.

Bio-amp: hmmm, I hardly ever use food and drink myself.

Well I do, and i just think that these are things and outdoorsman can take adavantage of for killing creature more effectively. Seems we just have different playstyles, which is why you opinion is valid too.

a level 4 humanoid or a level 4 creature modules goes into a level 4 generic slot. Unless I'm so crazy-go-nuts that I completely missed the point of it =). which, of course is entirely possible.

Im looking at the modular camp thread now and I must say I do agree with the fact that Rangers are at a disadvantage to SLs in available slots.

valid point is that there are level 4 creature modules, but no camps with level 4 creature slots...

This is exactly my point. I believe that what might have happened is that with so many changes to the original proposal, the new distribution and proportion of allgeneric/humanoid/creature slots are completely screwed up when u relate them with hte still existing module level rating and moduletype clasification. If a Ranger wants humanoid modules on its most advanced camp it can only put ONE of them. Some of the modules that are clasified as humanoid i believe shouldnt be so, cause they are ranger like as well so rangers should be able to put more than one on its higher camp. This makes Rangers in disadvantage, cause SL can actually have at the same time MANY of the coolest modules, which wouldnt be a problem if such cool modules didn't fit with the outdoormans vision. Additionally,I now see this problem pointed out by GTOFire that there are level 4 creature modules, but no camps with level 4 creature slots, which is more evidence that the entire module availability/type/level relation is totally screwed up for rangers ....

Keep the feedback coming, but of course im still waiting for the reply of our main man, NRass ...

Eter Solwalker

Naritus Master Ranger/Master Carbineer

You may not have seen my own ideas for the camps=healing, forts=buffing ( I assumed you did, since it seems that's the only thing i post these days...)

My idea was that camps wound passively heal wounds (i.e. no medicine) and forts would passively buff (no medicine) both would recieve bonuses to medicine applied inside the facilities.

I think part of the problem is that I haven't set down a current proposal that's logical in order and scope. It's on the to-do list, though.

---

ReptaLeeAnn wrote:

NRass, I just read your Modular Camp proposal V4 and got very worried. I see lots of issues on it that should be fixed before this proposal goes to the devs, cause ACCORDING TO HOW U ARE CLASIFYING THE MODULE TYPES, THIS PROPOSAL CAN BE VERY NEGATIVE FOR US RANGERS!

First of all NRass, this post IS NOT A FLAME. I admire your work as our Ranger correspondent and i am very thankful to you to all for what u have done for our profession. Many other profession don’t have the luck of having a correspondent even as half as efficient as u are, and I understand that this proposal has the intention to give Rangers and Squad Leaders some uniqueness and self identity. I have nothing against SL, I actually like the idea of two professions working together to achieve what they want, specially if one of those professions is as broken and as in bad shape as SL are. Even though in this post I will strongly criticize some key aspect of your proposal, it doesn’t mean i dont respect your effort on putting it up together.

BUT PLEASE, TAKE A LOOK AGAIN AT YOUR PROPOSAL AND NOTICE THAT NOT ONLY SOME OF THE BEST AND COOLEST OF MODULES U ARE GIVING THEM TO SQUAD LEADERS ONLY, ITS ALSO THAT THERE ARE MANY MODULES THAT FIT PERFECTLY WELL WITH THE OUTDOORSMAN VISION AND THAT U ARE GIVING THEM TO SL FOR THEIR EXCLUSIVE USE, WHEN THEY MAY EVEN FIT BETTER WIT RANGERS THAN SL.

By this I am not asking that SL shouldn’t have them, what I mean is that there are many HUMANOID modules ( and hence, according to you proposal can only be used on SL camps) that can perfectly fit well on a Ranger camp and that I don’t understand why u think we Rangers can’t have them. On the followingposts I will explain which modules I think u are misconceiving as humanoid only modules and I will explain the logic behind why I think that an OUTDOORSMAN as we are proposing the Ranger to be should be able to deploy them too. Also, these can be asily corrected, so I will propose a solution too:

---

In a response to my suggestion in the Outdoorsman NRaas wrote:

Gelotri:"The to-hit skills should probably apply to the CH as well as they know creature behaviors as well as we do since they train the boogers."

NRaas: I'm game, if the CH so choose to want them... Until then I'm not writing the CH proposal.

So......Are we looking at adding content to certain professions and not others? If the SL profession wants modules of their own....they have a correspondant....or are we sharing? It took a while for that response to hit home and it didnt set right with me. It seemed rather like a double standard. I support the modules concept and all but if we are writing a proposal that would be acceptable to the devs and be balanced, lets not do a half-#@! (Edit) job. Lets set a standard with these proposals that wont come back on us later to have entire bonuses and even skills taken away from us to be placed in another profession. We seem to be working for the SL profession quite heavily in the Module portion. Due to the types of modules being proposed I fully understand why. But if we are going to make suggestions for certain professions where they fit....then lets do that for all areas where they fit.

Dont mean for this to sound critical as that is not my intention NRaas. It just seems odd we are going into such detail for SL modules and adding the CH bonus mentioned before in my post in the Outdoorsman thread was not for us to do. Point of view .

/bump