Ranger Archive
Thread: The State as I see it.
Now I hate to be negitive so I'll keep it short.
Here are the skills of our elite class and its status.
Burst Run Efficiency. It cost less action to do. We don't run longer or faster than a scout.
Terrain Negotiation. This just doesn't seem to do anything above scout unless your running up a cliff.
Camouflage. Right now this seems to get us killed. And the time/effort to get the stuff to make them is way out of balance.
Camping. Oh dear me! As for how good they are for hunting partys? And if they would stop monster it might be good. Is it just me or does the Ranger always get the agro in a camp? I lose more camps that way.
Foraging. I guess its ok if your CH that has to feed your pet. But a normal scout does it as good.
Creature Harvesting. Yes we do collect more than a scout! This is are only pay off so far.
Creature Knowledge. Hmmm I don't seem to see anything that a Master Scout doesn't see?
Rescue. Now this comes in handy when your medic has the agro. But I've only got it to work once.
Now I know there is talk about things to come and that things are on the Test Center. I don't know if you tried the Test Center but its down time is outragous and no one is there and I have paid for almost all of my scout training. An you better be a CH because there is almost no grouping as far as I've seen. Sorry Im just bla bla.
The point is if its not in production where I am paying to play it doesn't count!
That matters when your low on health or action and an aggro mob is chewing on your butt, Many times I've gotten away due to lower cost.
"Terrain Negotiation. This just doesn't seem to do anything above scout unless your running up a cliff"
Anything over +50 Effects crawl speed, with is faster than anyone else, very good for recon, sneaking up on maulers and red cons
I use this all the time, due to prone warp bug and walking creatures when I'm at ideal range prone with rifle.
"Camouflage. Right now this seems to get us killed. And the time/effort to get the stuff to make them is way out of balance"
READ Test Center Changes. GOD forbid something doesn'
t work right. WHAT DOES, deal with it.
"Camping. Oh dear me! As for how good they are for hunting partys? And if they would stop monster it might be good. Is it just me or does the Ranger always get the agro in a camp? I lose more camps that way"
Camping for Hunting parties, well lets see A: MOVE THE CAMP AWAY FROM Aggressives 1st of all. B: Chemical Crafting stations in Field base. Weapon/Droid Crafting In High Tech Field Base. C: Higher rate of Auto Heal then in Scout Camps D: Everyone and there brother has a Pet or a droid now, pets can only be called from Camp or in town. Only thing a camp can't heal is Battle Fatigue. Is it Fast NO. but in A high lvl camp those 10-20 wounds go quick. Medics/docs can craft.
"Foraging. I guess its ok if your CH that has to feed your pet. But a normal scout does it as good"
So the Moun Gold Downer kicks in and you need something to Give you a boost of will power, maybe you need a little bit more of action or health FORAGE , ITS free so it Takes some Time to get what you want big deal. Are they better than doc's buffs NO, but they are still Usefull.
"Creature Harvesting. Yes we do collect more than a scout! This is are only pay off so far."
More than you will ever know.
"Creature Knowledge. Hmmm I don't seem to see anything that a Master Scout doesn't see?"
Rangers See Damage + Special Attacks. I can't remember which one is granted at master.
"Rescue. Now this comes in handy when your medic has the agro. But I've only got it to work once"
Rescue Can be the Life Saver of a group. I can't count the number of times I've used rescue to save my Team mates, Not only medics, But any Person in my Group, What happens when Rifleman has creature warp on his head, RESCUE. Its not just for rescuing medics.
Not to mention you totally Forgot ALL of the Tracking Line
I'm all for asking questions but To MAKE THIS CLEAR, We are Not Battle RANGERS, WE are a COMBAT SUPPORT CLASS. We are Dervied From a Support Line : Scout, My ability to kill things Is Based upon My RIFLE skills, Not my Ranger skills. Yes Ranger offers some Creature to Hit Bonuses But no where does this offer Better Damage or Fancy shots.
You Also forgot that Rangers/Scouts Are the Best Debuffers in the Game against Creatures, (NOT CH PETS) but WILD Creatures. By using Traps You can Lower melee/ranged defense, Snare, root, stun, etc.
Yes there are a number of things that still need to be fixed with our profession and a lot about the game in general, a couple of those things you mention will be fixed eventually. In the mean time I really try to stay postive and enjoy the ablities I do have. I know it can be furstrating at times but stick with it. If you look at other professions like Droid Engineer, or Bio Engineer then we are not so bad off. 
I guess it's what you take out of the game, I got this game because I wanted to explore the starwars universe.. I wanted to go out in to the wild explore and hunt big things. I wanted to join a great pa with liked minded indavidials. I wanted to pick a character that would help me do that so I picked ranger.. I absolutly love being one. Tracking down critters harvesting. Setting up big camps (even though they don't repel critters).
I guess what I'm trying to say is not to pay attention on your ablites and just "try" to enjoy the game, try roleplaying... I never did that before and it's a lot of fun. Try a hunting trip into the wilds, just did a three day expadition on rori walked and hunted from Rori Rebel Outpost to Restuss to Narmle, then back to Rebel Outpost. Try find a pa. That made the game even more enjoyable for me..
Glaza-X You bring up some good points!
I guess I need to find more game play in the content than the skill grind? Thats where I think I'll make my focus. Perhaps a Good PA?
Thanks for the constructive input.
Play with it, Have fun, enjoy it.
"Many times I've gotten away due to lower cost"
I never wait that long If I have non-cat DB mob on me, burst run is the first thing I hit, so that is neglible.
"READ Test Center Changes. "
Test Center changes means nothing! There are too few testers on that server, and when they do report problems it has gone live anyways. I suspect test center is for making sure an implementation does not crash or server or make the game unplayable/unstable. Finetuning is done AFTER it went live.The enitre camouflageconceptis great thing forus, but the implementationhas been a sad affair.
"A: MOVE THE CAMP AWAY FROM Aggressives"
Great advice when hunting on Naboo or other starter planets. That kind of luxury is not granted though all the time on planets such as Endor and Dathomir, because of proximity to other lairs. Quite a few times, a party needs to regroup, and the only spot is within visual range of an aggresive lair, and it is just a question of time before they aggro.
"B: Chemical Crafting stations in Field base. Weapon/Droid Crafting In High Tech Field Base."
Chem station is also in the high Tech, but none of my guild/group artisans ever use that station for crafting, because of the quality. All artisans I know who take their craft to the field, have droids! The only one who ever used the crafting station was myself for making camo kits, but then I again I also have a droid
"C: Higher rate of Auto Heal then in Scout Camps "
Once again, great for starter planets. On the high-end planets you better have a doctor or two with you, or even with that camp, you better off run the 1k or less to the outpost and get healed by a doctor then having a camp heal ya
Scout skills are probably the most comon basic skill set there is. In a hunting party around 50% can make a camp. I do not need to waste the resources on HQ camp, when a novice scout camp will suffice for calling/switching out pets and droids.
I stopped foraging a long time ago. It does not stack, 50% or so of my foraging winds up as bait, even as a Master Ranger my success rate is horrible, draining action and mind fast, and the worst part of foraging, is that I do not have the room for foraged items. I have weapons, armor, clothing, camo kits, hides, bones, meat, minerals, traps, powerups, crafting gear and other stuff. Inventory managementis a major consideration. For food, I buy crated food from chefs, which have 10 times the benfits,and I can 225 items of one fooditem taking up a spot that would be taken by a foraged item!
"Rangers See Damage + Special Attacks"
We are attacking a camp of rancors and their nightsisters. I give the groupleader the creature breakdown...ONCE. He know knows it, and he will never ask for that info again ( or he could have just gotten that info from swgcenter). The creature info is static. And on special attacks: The only thing I have found worthwile to warn the group is to warn them about disease (and sometimes poison).What difference is it to the group if that creature does intimadation or stunning attack?Now the nightsister,because they are NPC, we have no clue, and we still are able to manage.
"Rescue"
Everytime I see or hear about rescue, I have this image that the developer were watching the movie "Rescue Rangers" 
Maybe it works on the lower level mobs, but I have only once gotten the creature peeled off the medic. But why would you "rescue" some one else? You should have one assist in the group, one main tank, who does the aggro and crowd control as much as possible, and the healers try to keep him alive. By moving mobs around, you just made your healers live more difficult. If I get aggro, I continue on the main assist's target, while I try to have my pet jump in and peel the mob off. If it does not happen, I can hope that with the group focused on one target, we will finish one off fast enough, and then get on the target that is on me. Eitherway, rescue is nice, but limited usage.
"Traps"
Ranger traps are no used. Period. I do use scout traps all the time, but even those are limited. The duration is limited, some effects do not work on creatures at all (dizzy), and when you master a combat skill such as rifle in your case, you are better off just shooting the creature, then loosing specials and shooting time to throwing a trap.
Yes, we are not Battle rangers,but we are also NOT a combat support class in any shape or form. We are outdoormen, hunters, travellers, explorer. Nothing more, noting less.
P.S. I am not negative about the class. I love my ranger, but your post was more reflective of theory, not praxis.
Monty
"I never wait that long If I have non-cat DB mob on me, burst run is the first thing I hit, so that is neglible"
When your stuck in cover trying to get up as a creature is pounding away on you with 2.5X melee damage mod because I'm holding a rifle, and it went from 60m to 0m in a flash, its hardly my choice . If i had the luxury of time then I might not care.
"Test Center changes means nothing! There are too few testers on that server"
I can't disagree with you on that note but both Scout and Ranger Correspondents are doing there best on test center to look out for us.
"Great advice when hunting on Naboo or other starter planets. That kind of luxury is not granted though all the time on planets such as Endor and Dathomir, because of proximity to other lairs. Quite a few times, a party needs to regroup, and the only spot is within visual range of an aggresive lair, and it is just a question of time before they aggro"
I've hunted on Endor and Dath, so I am fimilar with them both. I personally would rather camp out of range of aggro lairs when possible. There are times when its not possible.
"Once again, great for starter planets. On the high-end planets you better have a doctor or two with you, or even with that camp, you better off run the 1k or less to the outpost and get healed by a doctor then having a camp heal ya"
Not all of us havemedics or doc's group with us, I would rather Not run back 1k to town, besides as a rifleman if I'm getting beat that bad that I need wound treatments becauseI either forgot to clone, Or was extremely stupid . I'm either dead or unharmed ,even more so on the advanced planets.
I use forages all the time for both me and my pet, with the buggy ness of spice useage its the only thing other than chef products that actually can boost me up for a while.
Creature Info I find very usefull because as myself I have a limited memory of extact damage and special attacks. Useless to memorize things. Its great if you have a leader that can remember things but when its just yourself , we at least I always forget.
Rescue , Not all of use group, often its just me and a pet, or me and 1 other person, If they are getting beat up I use it. same with a pet.
Traps, "you are better off just shooting the creature, then loosing specials and shooting time to throwing a trap. "
true but often I have a split second to fire another shot and try to switch to a pistol which means I can miss due to it moving from 50-25 meters in that time or throw a trap and hope to root it. Yes scout traps are more usefull than Ranger traps , due to the diverisity of traps. Its a gamble and its fun to try see if you can win at it.
"P.S. I am not negative about the class. I love my ranger, but your post was more reflective of theory, not praxis."
It maybe theory for you , but its what i do in game. I hunt 99% of the time solo. I enjoy it. We all see the class threw differant eyes.
Glaza-X:
The hunting bonus for a master ranger over a master scoutis not that significant. What do you mean by "More than you'll ever know"? Seems condescending yet intriguing as perhaps there is an aspect that I am missing?
The problem with Test Center is all those stealth nerfs the devs stick in there. Delta and Nras can't test changes that they don't know about.
As a melee ranger (TKM) I don't crawl. It doesn't do me any good. It seems to work well for you as a rifleman, but it seems that Ranger's are better for supporting ranged combat than melee combat, and that is by design since it is pretty much spelled out in the skill descriptions.
When I first became a ranger, I used ranger traps extensively. I have never ever to this dayreceived a message about a ranger trap working or not. I've also never seen a mob that I threw the trap at with a state indicator showing that the trap worked. I can only presume that ranger traps don't work. I leveled up the unarmed and TKA trees using wire mesh and L Darts extensively. I got those both from Novice Scout. I don't even use them anymore as I'm still horribly inaccurate with them even on minor creatures.
I used to make loads of Field Bases. I used them for making stims, but I buy them now. Yet it's easier to keep a droid if I were still to make them, as droids are far better than our crafting stations. And whether it's a bug or not I can't say, but I can call or store a pet without making a camp. In fact as a Teras Kasi Master I have zero need for a camp. But even if I were still back to the days of using wound packs, My basic scout camp works just as well. Still, I would miss the HTFB but the "cool factor" is long gone.
Hunting solo on Endor is loads of fun, especially as a ranger. At least when it was packed with mobs and lairs. But if I were to be in a group, it would be with a doctor or not at all. But do have a bit of medic skill myself.
The only way I see rescue being useful is if the attacking mob forgot it was aggro on the original target. For example if the mob targets group member A and I rescue A and the mob proceeds to incap/kill me, it will reaggro on A. It should reaggro randomly or not at all. I have no qualms about laying out for a doctor, especially a rezzer, but if I'm going to get killed in the process I don't want to see said doctor getting killed next. I still don't know why it is a ranger skill - anyone?
I agree with you on forage. Right now it is the only thing allowing me to use spice. I don't wear armor so I don't use things like Tat Sunburn. I probably should anyway, but it's still a an expensive way of feeding pets/fixing spice bugs. I'd rather see less bait though as fishing for a few hours has me coming out of my earsin bait.
Creature info is one of my most cherished Ranger abilities. Something so simple and elegant yet it's a shame that they are static and examines on similar creaturesare always the same. How nice would it be if mob X had a list of 5-10 special attacks of which 0-2 were randomly assigned to it? IIRC, master additionally gave me info on damage. Too many creatures have unknown attacks and I don't find the damage amounts particularly accurate. 
I like my ranger, I am trying to give it as much of a chance as possible, but I am sorely tempted to put my skill points elsewhere.
thats the beauty of ranger there is no go 2-3-0-2 and you'll be UBER
No, the sad fact of the matter is that you can go 4-4-4-4 and still not find anything remotely useful, let alone "uber". Okay, tracking is moderately useful, I'll grant you that.
"The beauty of the class is that it's so powerless." I've seen a lot of justifications for sticking with Ranger, but this one takes the cake.
Gunnar,
I apologize for assuming your post as a theoratical viewpoint. I realize now thatwe do not seeour professionthrough different eyes, we justspend more time on different planet. You spend most your time on Naboo...
"I generally lead a party of 3 on keren to Kaadra Imp/creature destroy missions. Anyone who has played on Naboo knows the Keren North Ridge line. With the combo's of maskscent and terr nego, I have enough time to see and prevent my group from killed. Now and then I slip and we get tangled in a mess of shaupauts, a couple of quick Adhesive traps and a nicely placed body shot and my group is fine."
.. and I huntand live mostlyon Dath and Endor.The planets we primarily hunt on, and their animal life really shape our view and experiences about Rangers. In my area of operation, traps seldom work, and the benefits are neglible to noneexistent, healers are a near must (depending on your target,your template and group makeup), HQ camps are abeacon for newcomers or returning party members, forages eat up HAM andprecious inventory space (can not use bank for storage off your home planet), trackis "inaccurate" due to isdependence onplayer traffic in a lot of cases (not a problem really with track, but withhowSWG handles spawns).
jmatt , A reflection on the fact that there is no template for ranger skils. Not like Bh's 0-3-2-0 with pistol 0-0-3-0
No, the sad fact of the matter is that you can go 4-4-4-4 and still not find anything remotely useful, let alone "uber". Okay, tracking is moderately useful, I'll grant you that.
I never stated ranger was in any form Uber , hince the statement which should read "There is NO, go...."
When you fillet fish you get chum bait and fish meat (and keep the original fish husk in case you are worried about that). As long as you can catch 1 fish for each bait item you will never need to forage for bait again.
TheOriginalDarthVic wrote:
Man, I wish 50% of my forage wound up to be bait. I love to fish and that's the only thing I ever forage for, hehe.