Ranger Archive
Thread: Minor Changes to Profession Required
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falacy
Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:18 am
#1
After spending a while on the Test Center server as my 'goal' character, I have found that there are some really sad shortcomings in some of the best features of the Ranger profession. Here is my analysis,
UniqueRanger Bonuses are Meaningless
Crafting Stations
Problem: Thiswas a wicked idea in beta, but now that we can get a +40 crafting station and a factory, we nolonger need to craft anything in thefield. Period.Furthermore, it takes exactly 0 skill points to pull out a droid that will yeild better results than our master level crafting stations.
Solution: Well, with the advent of buffs, droids, factories, and vehicles there's hardly even a reason to camp at all, let alone craft something in one. However, if these stations were to given some kind of special bonus, such as unique field schematics ora bonus to experimentation, this may bring people back out into the wilderness.
Tracking
Problem: As much asI enjoy this ability, it's far too limited in range to be truly useful.
Solution: Increase the track range to 1,000m and allow us to select a creature and create a waypoint within 50m of it. At least then we might be able to A) Travel in the right direction for sure & B) sell people 'information'.
Camp Healing
Problem: First off, rarely does anyone even need to be healed anymore, aside from Battle Fatigue. However, if people were to heal in a camp, quickly they would realise it would take them less time to travel to a major planet, get buffed/healed, and come back than it would to stay in the camp and heal.
Solution: Rangers should be able to heal ALL wounds, at the level of an average Medic/Entertainer - While in their camps only!At first the Ranger will only be able to use his knowledge (Mind HAM) to heal. As such, he can only heal using the Tend Wound ability and he has not yet grasped the concept of relaxing the mind. After practicing, he will learn how to use rudimentry medicines, however, he will not have any skills in medical crafting. The Heal Woundand Heal Wound (Mind) abilitiesyeild Medical Experience. The Heal Wound (Mind) abilityuses some of the Ranger's Action Pool & timeto heal his patients Mind Wounds.
Where Healing Fits in the Skill Tree:
Total Bonuses
- Medicine Use +25
- Wound Treatment +25
- Wound Healing (Mind) +15
- Wound Treatment Speed +25
- (With Master Medic this is roughly equivilent to Doctor 1/0/3/0 - In Ranger camps only)
Camo-Kits
Problem: They don't always work properly.
Solution: Fix them. This is well covered elsewhere.
Camo-Kits: Revisited
Problem: Only rangers can use them, because they require the /conceal command. However, they can /conceal someone else wearing an X-Wing flight suit!
Solution: Get rid of the /conceal command entirely and make Camo-Kits an item usable on any clothing, but only crafted by Rangers. This would be similar to adding a powerup to a weapon. Different camo-kits for different planets, as it currently is. All classes would be able to use a camo kit, but only Rangers would get the increases in concealment success.
Foraging
Problem: About the only usefull thing one can find is bait. Funny, so can a Novice Scout, so why spend all the time and AP?
Solution: Allow the forage ability to find normal NPC loot, based on skill level and location/planet level.
Harvesting
Problem: Droids are better, usable by all,and cost 0 AP and 0 time to aquire.
Solution: Incease all Ranger harvesting incriments by 5, for a total of +185 at Master. That's an advantage worthy of the time required to achieve it.
Trapping
Problem: Why bother? I mean, when you can go get buffed and let damned near any creature pound on you for an hour solid, there's just no need for tactics. None, at all. Really.
Solution: We need the combat balance to happen some time this century.
Isolationism
Problem: Rangers are meant to be able to live in the wilderness for quite some time, being masters of the out doors and all. However, when itcomes toactuallymaking use ofmany of these handy skills, the oportunities are often slim to none.Vehicles (mounts not so much) and Player Cities make the game world much too small. Generally, if you have to travel more than 4Km it's because you're off getting some kinda of POI Badge in BFNW. So, there just doesn't seem to be any justification in NOT travelling back to town, whereyou can heal Battle Fatigue, get buffed, buy misc crap, sell loot, and generally lead a merry life.
Solution: Honestly, aside from on the 'no-build' worlds, this issue isn't going to go away. SOE can't be expected to make the planets so big that there is a real sense of wilderness. All I can do is suggest some incentives for using camps,
Overall, the Ranger profession isn't bad. It is, however,totally inconsistant with the alotment of abilities and needs in the current game world. Because Ranger is virtually useless without a combat profession to back it up (which is, to me, completely acceptable) and becuase Master Scout is required, the profession is limited on the whole when compaired to the combinations possible by following other templates. As such, I have suggested adding the rudimentry ability to heal and the changing of camo-kits from being "Ranger Only" to "Only Awesome With Ranger Skills".
By having the ability to heal wounds, not damage,the Ranger and his camps will become more useful. Not only will sitting in a camp heal a players wounds, but through the efforts of the Ranger who is hosting the camp (or any other Ranger for that matter), the player will be on his way sooner! This, of course, is assuming that SOE does something about the dramatic decline of wounds and wound healing in the game. Not having the ability to heal damage maintains a spot for actual Medics and Stimpak Droids in a group. Furthermore, this limits the Ranger from being able to continuosly heal himself unfairly in PvE battle.
The idea behind removing the /conceal command as a whole and moving it over to a craftable item is part-in-parcile, because any Ranger who takes up a crafting profession pretty much pooched himself. Given that Rangers have all these cool abilities when it comes to animals, it makes no sense at all to not have enough combat skills to actually kill said animals. As such, Rangers must allocate fun crafting Apprentice Points to a combat class. So, why not make give Rangers something fun and unique to craft and sell to other players! Camo-Kits would be clothing power ups that would give a bonus to conealment, as they curtrently do. They would have charges on them and a charge would be used up each time an enemy spotted you. The higher your concealment skill, the longer you'd be able to go without using up a charge (and the less likely you'd be spotted). Certainly a fun item for any Tailor to sell on their vendor for you!
On adding Ranger camps to the world map, not only will this help people stay in the wild, I like to think of this as a good opertunity to add some roleplaying to the game. SOE could make Ham Radios, craftable by Master Artisans, that would be battery operated and would allow the user to listen in to brodcasts around the world. Such broadcasts would come from comm-towers in Ranger camps, Rebel and Imperial encampments, and occasionally, other factions. While powered and 'On', a Ham Radio will add waypoints to the world map. Some waypoints may have specials missions at them!
In closing, I would like to say that over all, my experiences with the Master Ranger/Rifleman/Scout template have been quite fun. On the whole, the profession is much, much better than others. However, given the state of game when it comes to damage/wounds and the availability of 'abilites' that match or exceed what are considered bonuses in the Ranger tree, such as harvesting, I feel the profession lacks its own place in the world. Ranger as it is now is really, Master Scout +1.
Message Edited by falacy on 09-19-2004 03:27 AM
JBMat
Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:46 am
#2
Taking your points in order -
However, first go read the Outdoorsman proposal. Twice. Hoepefully you will understand why.
Craft stations - who carries one with them, unless it is in a droid? They work, they work well, and yeah, I have used them to make camo kits for those without scout. The entire purpose of camps is to provide a temporary refuge, as least right now. The craft stations are a bennie, good bad or indifferent, they are they for eye candy. Can't believe you ask about this, when the camps are basically broke, don't repel anything, and you want better craft machines?? Who cares?
Tracking - NO FREAKING WAYPOINTS. If you have problems with tracking - practice it more or go be a stupid BH. If you actually consider it, we can track a circular kilometer. That is a lot of area. If you can't figure out what way is north, even with a compass on the screen, you honestly don't need to be a Ranger.
Camp Healing - I can hear the medics and entertainers screaming now. Again, go read the Outdoorsman proposal. Even better, go spend some skill points and get novice medic. I am not stepping on their profession, they are nice to me.
Camo Kits - they do work properly. Just not as advertised. I get XP when I use them on non scouts, I damn sure do not want to lose that to make it usable by others. Not well thought out.
Foraging - yeah, useless but fun. No loot, that is what looting is for. Rather we could find better forage tho.
Harvesting - droids do not harvest better than I do. Your entire premise is faulty. They may get more, based on my skills, but I am faster and more efficient, and do not run off screaming in combat. My standard argument that harvester droids are a waste has been posted many many times. What we want is a significant increase between Scout and Ranger, or multiple harvests.
Trapping - If you can't figure out why, give it up. I trap 85% of the creatures I harvest, for the simple fact it makes it easier to kill them. Granted, the best traps are scout traps, and the ranger traps are a joke. Again, read the Outdoorsman proposal for what we want.
Isolationism - Say what? Again, where are you coming from? I don't want my camps on the map, half the time I am using them to hide from people and heal.
I really wish you had read the Outdoorsman proposal. Half your arguments are flawed, the rest based on personal desires that do not reflect what is probably the mainstream Rangers. Oh, final dig - Field not feild.
JB
BlakkStar
Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:12 am
#3
Summed up the mainstream Ranger counter arguments nicely, although I will take issue with one thing. Crafting stations are not eye candy. Like u said they are only meant to be temporary for use in the field and as a range who experiments on camo kits for more quantity, they suit my purposes quite nicely.
falacy
Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:55 am
#4
JBMat,
Thanks for hostility. Very appropriate.
Yup, I must be an idiot because I don't see the world the same way you do. With an attitude like that, I wouldn't want your camp to be on the world map either. Anyhow, I'm sure if SOE gave us the ability to have our camps on the world map they would also make it optional.
Keep freakin' out, it's funny.
EDIT:
I thought I should add a counter point to the one issue JBMat wasundoubtably wrong about.
As a Medic (non-master), I can say that the wound healing only (not damage healing!) skillsI gave the Ranger profession, combined with the limitation of only being able to use the skills in a Ranger camp, would not step on the toes of a Novice 2/2/3/2 medic. At Ranger 0/0/4/0 the player would only be able heal strength/action/mind wounds, but none of the sub catigories. Sure that's handy in a jam, but it's certainly not a replacement for a Novice Medic (or Entertainer for that matter). At Master Ranger, the wound healing skills would be sufficient to heal normal clone damage of 1 person inroughly3 to5 minutes. A Master Medic could do this in less than one minute, a Novice Medic could in just over 1.5 minutes, and a Doctor could do it in the blink of an eye. I've never played an Entertainer, but with the limitation of using the same medical healing que for all wound healing, I can see it be FAR more effecient to watch an entertainer with the equivilent +15 heal rate than it would be have a Ranger do the healing.
In the end, giving the Ranger the ability to heal all wounds (not Battle Fatigue) in their camps simply gives camping and the Ranger himself a bit of much needed purpose. The camp will heal your wounds in time any way, but like I said before, it would take you less time to travel to a major center and heal than it would to sit in the camp, heal, and give that Ranger much needed Wilderness Survival XP. Not many groups form with Medics & Entertainers anymore and for a Ranger to give up 27 AP just to get rudimentry healing skills is asking a player to take too much away from their character. If you don't think so, consider the stacked bonues of othercombos achievable with other templates, such asMaster TKA/Pistoleer/Medic 3/4/4/4. Furthermore, with the Ranger healing ability providing Medical Experience, which does not pertain to the Ranger Skill Tree, the only incentives for Rangers to heal are: 1. To be helpful& 2. To very slowly gain XP to trade in for Force XP.
Message Edited by falacy on 09-19-2004 01:48 PM
Almagill
Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:58 pm
#5
Hmm.
OK.
Crafting stations, I don't agree they are 'only' eye candy. THey are what they are, an infield peice of kit. You're not terribly likely to have an armoursmith or DE tagging along trying to build something 'uber' out in the wild. They do what they are meant to, let me knock up a few items in field.
As for giving us more healing abilities somehow giving Rangers some 'much needed purpose', I'm sure that that was just poorly phrased or I'm managing to read it completley wrong. I'm a ranger. I have a purpose. I hunt. I gather resources. I keep enough SP's tucked away to be able to do basic in field first aid. If I get poisoned or manage to aquire a chunk of wounds, I'll head for the appropriate place to heal properly.
Cloning into camps? Nice idea, but no. Last thing I need is some cheesed of whining just been ganked sprog popping up in my camp, then whining at me because I'm not healing him fast enough and why am I not a medic? Oh, and while am here, any chance we can go look for the switchblade pour? (Seriously. Tonight. Don't ask.)
OK.
Crafting stations, I don't agree they are 'only' eye candy. THey are what they are, an infield peice of kit. You're not terribly likely to have an armoursmith or DE tagging along trying to build something 'uber' out in the wild. They do what they are meant to, let me knock up a few items in field.
As for giving us more healing abilities somehow giving Rangers some 'much needed purpose', I'm sure that that was just poorly phrased or I'm managing to read it completley wrong. I'm a ranger. I have a purpose. I hunt. I gather resources. I keep enough SP's tucked away to be able to do basic in field first aid. If I get poisoned or manage to aquire a chunk of wounds, I'll head for the appropriate place to heal properly.
Cloning into camps? Nice idea, but no. Last thing I need is some cheesed of whining just been ganked sprog popping up in my camp, then whining at me because I'm not healing him fast enough and why am I not a medic? Oh, and while am here, any chance we can go look for the switchblade pour? (Seriously. Tonight. Don't ask.)
Nemo0
Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:48 pm
#6
Just so you know, Ranger camps can appear on the map. Just go overt and look under the Rebel or Imperial tag on the world map. It shows up in there and lets you buy faction equipment from the terminal (although you pay a bit extra).
And I don't agree that we should get wound healing. That takes too much away from the entertainers and medics.
While I might not agree with how JB said what he said, I do agree with what he said. But that's just JB's way of putting things. If he strongly disagrees with something, he makes sure you know it. It's very effective but it can sometimes cause people to get offended.
Tringard
Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:36 am
#7
while interesting to consider getting healing abilities and mods only in camps, its not worth it to even consider, you will _Never_ get any healing abilities without going through medic
trust me, I've lived in the medic communities for the last year, luckily the Ranger forums are hidden or we would be swimming in docs whining and flaming for even considering it 
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