Ranger Archive
Thread: Would this overpower Ranger?
Page 1 of 1
Maxanto
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:26 am
#1
I went hunting for some wooly hide on endor last night. Killed many gurreks. One thing I noticed I did not like was the change for being able to attack from great distances. If there was the smallest shrub in the way I couldnt shoot, even if the animal was 80 times the size. If I am able to see the animal I should be able to hit it.
So my ? to all you is this. Make a change so that M rangers can hit what they see? I know you melee rangers will snub your nose at this but it just makes sense to me.
AragornSoS
Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:56 am
#2
Well, you CAN hit what you can see from range, as long as you consider Line of Sight (LoS) as well. And as long as it's within range of whatever weapon you have equiped. Yes, sometimes you can't hit something that LOOKS like you should be able to (the Ryyatt trails are probably the worst location I can think of for this, where at least previously you could literally be standing right next to something and get the *Can't See Target* message), but overall, the LoS changes introduced a while back actually make things more fun and challenging. You can't just spam shots through the side of a mountain anymore, you actually have to scout out the terrain and find a location where you are in range, can see your target, hopefully don't have too many ditches around that they go out of sight in when they charge you - and then you attack.
I know there are still some bugs, and it can be annoying to have a tiny rock or shrub keep you from shooting, but in GENERAL, the LoS code seems to work pretty well most of the time. I don't think there is much that needs to be changed there in the big picture.
Jolandir
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:10 am
#3
I am sorry, but the original poster is correct. You can plainly see the silly creature, which the little dumb shrub infront of you could not possibly obscure and yet you can't shot it. This is not overpowering, it is just asking for the game to behave more realistically. This would be true for melee types as well,sort of like a cat standing in between two opponents and not beingallowing either to hit each other or to us kicks just because this cat which is not much over shoe height is standing between the two who areopposing each other, is some kind of supposed obsticle. OK you make it a stone instead of a cat, since the cat would have enough brains to get out of the way once either of the opponents moved.
If you take the line-of-sight it should be from the eyeball perception, so if you go to first person mode and can see the silly thing you should be able to shoot it if nothing is restraining your movement. This would not be possible obviously if you were clining to a cliff with both hands and and feet and your head is above the cliff. In this scenario you can see the creature but you should not be able to shoot it.
Jolandir
Message Edited by Jolandir on 08-05-2005 08:14 AM
Calculus_Entropy
Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:21 am
#4
I had a great post all typed up that expained this beautifully, but now I have to give you the short version 
.
Basically, the way permanent scenery type objects (logs on Dath, rocks on Tat) are coded is that their no-collide zone extends to infinity in the z (up) direction. It would probably take a planetary recoding to change this so that the collidable top of the object is the same as the graphical top of the object.
In short, I think it is technically not feasible to do this.
WOuld it make us overpowered? Nope.
.Basically, the way permanent scenery type objects (logs on Dath, rocks on Tat) are coded is that their no-collide zone extends to infinity in the z (up) direction. It would probably take a planetary recoding to change this so that the collidable top of the object is the same as the graphical top of the object.
In short, I think it is technically not feasible to do this.
WOuld it make us overpowered? Nope.
AragornSoS
Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:35 am
#5
What Calc said. This has little to do with Ranger, it has to do with Line of Sight, introduced 6 or 7 patches back (something like that). LoS was, I believe,fixed from the initial implementation on TC where it was drawing the line from the ground where you stood to the ground where the target stood - I THINK it's now drawing it maybe from your head to the target head (oooh, could they have possibly done it to center mass? Doubtful). BUT... the static objects mess this up somewhat exactly as Calc described. It's not perfect, but it's still a dang sight better than having folks around the corner of a building or on the other side of a mountaing shooting THROUGH that obstacle to hit something they certainly can't see in any way (but could /target).
I wouldn't make us overpowered, but it has nothing to do with Ranger. It's really a ranged profession issue, not a Ranger profession issue. Besides, with our uber crawl speed, it's generally not a big deal to spend a second crawling to either side toget a clear shot on the critter and pop 'em in the head. 
ThGilsRooc
Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:22 pm
#6
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
I had a great post all typed up that expained this beautifully, but now I have to give you the short version
Basically, the way permanent scenery type objects (logs on Dath, rocks on Tat) are coded is that their no-collide zone extends to infinity in the z (up) direction. It would probably take a planetary recoding to change this so that the collidable top of the object is the same as the graphical top of the object.
In short, I think it is technically not feasible to do this.
WOuld it make us overpowered? Nope.
I doubt it. The colliding code is possibly hinged on particular items. Rocks of a certain type are identical to each other. The permanent location of said rocks are coded as a graphic ID, and the client emulates the graphics and colliding info from the database. It would be quite easy, if this case is true, to alter the collision code of the rock template to reflect their true height. There can't be too many forms of rock in the game. They're just rotated and such to appear different. And it would be just as easy to remove collisions from dath trees (wishful thinking here).
It is quite irritating that a creature could be just over the lip of a hill, yet standing on the top of the hill would give a visual error. So you can plainly see the stupid thing, but its feet are just over the hill. Meanwhile, you're taking full damage from the mob (provided you're in melee range or it has a ranged attack) while you're feverishly running around trying to find a place to shoot the stupid thing because they just don't stand there anymore.
Hunting on dath is NOT FUN at all. Not for me.
Message Edited by ThGilsRooc on 08-05-2005 06:24 PM
lootranger3
Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:11 pm
#7
LoS needs more work. Although I liek the idea it just doesnt work that great. Tonight some guildies and myself were hunting critters on Talus. One particulr time our mission was torturs. Its crazy how an animal can walk behind a tree no thicker than a human and can break your line of site. Also shooting through walls gets on my nerves. It was a great change that i felt was needed to keep people from exploiting, but shouldnt the Devs have implemented the same stuff for NPC's? Its amazing how you get the "can't see target" routine, but enemy NPC's are hitting you from inside a base.
SeanBlader
Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:24 pm
#8
Think of it this way, the ground game is 2D. You can't jump because there's no Z or vertical axis designed into it to allow you to clear that short leap up the winding steps to your house that's just up on a hill. You can't speeder over trees, rocks, fallen logs, 2 foot fences, etc. Basically you're talking about rewriting the base game engine upon which everything else, except space, is built. Basically they said, get used to it as it is at Fan Fest when someone asked a similar question.
Temujin23
Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:18 am
#9
I agree that this really isn't a Ranger issue. I would, however, like to see LoS changed from the 'your head to your target's feet' nonsense. The target's head or center would be much better. It drives me mad when I can't shoot someone in the eyes because there's a rock obscuring their ankles.
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger
Temujin23
Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:12 am
#10
lootranger3 wrote:
It was a great change that i felt was needed to keep people from exploiting, but shouldnt the Devs have implemented the same stuff for NPC's? Its amazing how you get the "can't see target" routine, but enemy NPC's are hitting you from inside a base.
NPC's don't have to spend action on any special but KD recovery; why not let them shoot through walls?
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger
Phenix1050
Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:02 am
#11
technically, I think the introduction of JtL actually forced them to put a Z-axis in the game. I for one know that I can now tell how high I am off the ground because I can see the X, Y and Z axis.
Nemo0
Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:21 am
#12
Phenix1050 wrote:
technically, I think the introduction of JtL actually forced them to put a Z-axis in the game. I for one know that I can now tell how high I am off the ground because I can see the X, Y and Z axis.
Not to mention that there are certain walls that you can drive over in a swoop but that stop you when you try to walk over them.
Page 1 of 1