Ranger Archive
Thread: Tracking the Elusive Vision...
"As it is, I don't expect anything to be done about this "vision" thread any way. Do you?"
I will be writing up a descriptive proposal of our "vision" and shoving into the face of whichever developer I can get my filthy hands on, be that Thunderheart or GreenMarine or however will listen.
The problem here is that I have taught you all too well through my tenure...
- Everyone is pointing out specific details about the profession, defining skills, commands and changes that should be made.
Whatwe need to do is put togetheradecisive piece of writing that will show the developers what they would bemissing by not following our path...
- Something that will make the developers sit up and say: "Holy crud, why didn't I see that before?"
----
By the way CavemanGamer, how long did it take to set up all those colors? 
"I'd like the "Hunt Master" title changed to "Tracker"."
So would I, it sounds cooler...
- Except it would not encompass the harvesting skills also in that branch.
As for"Stealth Master", I agree on the concept...
- But really now I think"Wayfarer" sounds cooler. Maybe "Concealer" or "Vanisher", something catchy.
"Fear Trap"
Oh, I like that one.
"I don't understand why this should not work on NPCs as well."
Because the developers said it did not fit within their vision...
- Now we must convince them otherwise.
I hope the thoughts that arise from this thread will be the ammunition required to do that.
"What if a ranger had a pet that was the SW equivalent of a bloodhound, but only a ranger could figure out how to track with it??"
A tool that combines training from a CH and can be used by a Ranger of sufficient skill. Interesting idea.
It could be our version of the BH tracking droids.
Though that leaves us open again to attack from the BH who will then want the area tracking ability to even it out.
I'll put in the SotP Wishlist for later review.
"I actually don't like the idea of concealing others. It really doesn't seem to work much anyway."
You're kidding me? I use that ability all the time and it works like a dream.
"As many of you probably know I am very unhappy with relegating a Ranger to being nothing more than a hunter."
We must solidifyour owngoal here, or end up being whatever the developer decides for themselves...
- It was my proposal to focus on the Outdoorsman aspect, as that appears to close enough to the developer's vision to have a chance and has some decent backing in the community as well.
Fred_Skinner has asked me to "get a spine". So unless someone else has any absolutely brilliant ideas on how to proceed, I will direct the community down this path.
"We have been promised advanced camps since launch. An advanced camp would be a "fortification" or advanced forward unti of some sort."
So? We were "promised" that /conceal would work against humanoids as well...
- There is absolutely nothing stopping the development team from reconsolidating their interests or reversing direction completely, if they so choose.
Since launch, the structure of the team has changed drastically, with the promotion of Holocron and Blair.
- Each new member of the team adds yet another set of fingers to point in the direction of their choice, which does not have to be in the direction of the previous members.
If we don't act now, our profession will be solidified into something even more confining than my proposal...
- Something that removes all possibility of usefulness in humanoid conflict.
----
I willcomplete this post now,as I appear to be getting agitated.
Beausoleil wrote:
We should be able to carry more than other professions
I love this idea. No really, I 'LOVE' it. Expanded inventory sounds very outdoorsyto me (although I'm sure the devs will say no due to database limits).
NRaas wrote:"I sure hope the squad leaders don't stumble upon the highlighted camp"
And you have hit a primary issue...
- Our vision can not impede too far into any of the other professions, lest we risk losing any possibility of having it realized.
The following profession derive from Scout:
- Ranger
- Bounty Hunter
- Squad Leader
- Creature Handler
Because of this relationship, we are forced to concede certain aspects of the game system to other professions.
- Combat related encampments should fall into the Squad Leader profession.
- Bounty Hunter should be provided their due with regards to humanoid combat advantages (and yes, some form of traps)
Our profession directs us downa far more creature-centric path and that is what will keep us from crashing headlong into another profession's arena.
NRaas wrote:
"I sure hope the squad leaders don't stumble upon the highlighted camp"
And you have hit a primary issue...
- Our vision can not impede too far into any of the other professions, lest we risk losing any possibility of having it realized.
The following profession derive from Scout:
- Ranger
- Bounty Hunter
- Squad Leader
- Creature Handler
Because of this relationship, we are forced to concede certain aspects of the game system to other professions.
- Combat related encampments should fall into the Squad Leader profession.
- Bounty Hunter should be provided their due with regards to humanoid combat advantages (and yes, some form of traps)
Our profession directs us downa far more creature-centric path and that is what will keep us from crashing headlong into another profession's arena.
And that has hit upon one of MY primary issues. We keep hearing about all the instances that we have to be careful about how We intrude into the other proffessions? But, how does that work in the otehr direction? What about how they intrude into our areas? It seems like we are in a holding pattern until they finish detailing out the other Scout elites and we are tossed the left overs.
If we are to be the Ultimate Outdoorsmen? Then what is defined as a combat camp and what is defined as a hunting camp? Is any camp the enhances combat in any way a combat camp. Hense, the pervue of SL and we are left with exactly what we have?
And what about Master Rangers? We have yet to hear anything at all about what they might get. Other than a few trapping bonuses.
"But, how does that work in the otehr direction? What about how they intrude into our areas?"
Asolid definition ofour profession that is backed by the developers will ensure that other profession stay off our turf. Wecan stake our claim to our place in the system and guarantee that others will not impede upon our territory.
"Then what is defined as a combat camp and what is defined as a hunting camp?"
A good question... And a question that must be answered in our vision.
We have the concept of the hunting blindandthe concept of the M.A.S.H. likecamps that provide security and healing capabilities to those in need.
We also have the concept of the fortifications that interest in the Squad Leader. Encampments that provide a tactical advantage to a team ofdefenders.
But where is the line between the hunting blind and the fortification?
Wewill probably end up defining parts of our neighbouring professions in the process. So keep in mind that they too desire and expect just as much from their profession as we do from ours.
Suggestions?
NRaas wrote:
"As many of you probably know I am very unhappy with relegating a Ranger to being nothing more than a hunter."
We must solidifyour owngoal here, or end up being whatever the developer decides for themselves...
- It was my proposal to focus on the Outdoorsman aspect, as that appears to close enough to the developer's vision to have a chance and has some decent backing in the community as well.
Fred_Skinner has asked me to "get a spine". So unless someone else has any absolutely brilliant ideas on how to proceed, I will direct the community down this path.
"We have been promised advanced camps since launch. An advanced camp would be a "fortification" or advanced forward unti of some sort."
So? We were "promised" that /conceal would work against humanoids as well...
- There is absolutely nothing stopping the development team from reconsolidating their interests or reversing direction completely, if they so choose.
Since launch, the structure of the team has changed drastically, with the promotion of Holocron and Blair.
- Each new member of the team adds yet another set of fingers to point in the direction of their choice, which does not have to be in the direction of the previous members.
If we don't act now, our profession will be solidified into something even more confining than my proposal...
- Something that removes all possibility of usefulness in humanoid conflict.
----
I willcomplete this post now,as I appear to be getting agitated.
You have done a great job, NRaas.What you have accomplished with the impossible set of curcumstances that we are under is very commendable. Iwill admit, I can be abit negative, at times. I have been here from teh beginning. One of the first five rangers in the whole game and the first on my server. I have stuck with it through it all.
And I am getting agitated, as well. I like to assume the worse case senario. I find I am not surprised as much, that way. Plus, I am a big believer in 'the Ugly Truth' and the only way to know where to go is to know where you will be starting from.
Given what we have at this time. We have to look at how to get the Outdoorsman idea to fruition. But, we also have to consider what we might be losing. We cant bury our heads and ignore some of the undercurrents that have been hinted at.
For instance. The issue of our crossover with other proffesions keeps gettign raised. Does this mean we will loose some of the best stuff we have? Does our player tracking ability get taken away and give to the BH's? Do we loose HT field bases to the SquadLeaders? Does our few action damaging traps go to the Commando's? Do we loose our fast crawl to the Riflemen? Ect ect.
I hope the answer to these is NO. But, these are things to consider, if we are to know what kind offoundation we are going to be building from.
The things I think we need to see are the critter bonues actually working and working well. Lots more To hit and damage bonues. Across the board and in much bigger numbers. And if we are to be the best at fighting creatures, we need to be able to defend against them. Since, they introduced this nifty damage mitigation ability in the combat proffesions. How about the for Rangers, but versus creature damage? And learning to become resistant or immune to certain critter speacial attacks, as the Ranger goes up in level.
Fishing. Fish are a commodity that we could really benifit from, if Rangers could do it effeicently. Leave the rod and real fishing for Scouts. How about make it foraging, for Rangers? You stand in or near a body of water and when you forage, you get fish instead of food. And on the subject of foraging. Make the stuff we forage with something.
I think that this whole issue of 'cross over' skills and stepping on the toes of other professions is silly. The BH's would not want our area track ability if their droids worked like they should. Let their droids track players for all I care, that is fine by me, they should track players, but do NOT take it away from us. They should track in cities, we should track in the wilderness. That is that IMO.
The same could be said about traps. We have taken up ranger, which has a trapping line. BH does not. If the dev's wish to make scout traps work on Humanoids that is fine, because we get them too then. If our advanced traps only work on creatures that is fine too because that is what we focus on, but at least we share the scout traps that do work on humanoid with the BH's, and all is fair. BH just doesnt have a trapping line. They do have a group of skills thathas massive damage output to players, AND creatures. That makes sense, just like it makes sense for us to be able to affect humanoids with some of our stuff.
SL does not master a profession as a prereq. So they have the survival line, but they do not even have the camp that comes with master scout. We are not stepping on their toes by asking for camps like they also want. ours should at least be equally as useful. Since we spend more points to get them,I feelthey can rightfully be better. If they want to match us camp for camp, they should have to master scout. This is a simple balance issue. The hardest to achieve professions(i mean the ones with the most prereq'sshould have the most versatility.)
As for wayfairing, it is so incredibly lame right now I do not even know what to think. I am also a rifleman, so I would miss the crawl speed, but the fact is, it doesnt help the comunity as a whole so I would not lament its passing to much if it were to be traded for something useful to everyone.
I like the idea of the pet 'blood hound' and here is why if feel that bounty hunters can't say anything about it. Our pets would not leave the planet, like their droids. This would be a cool way to put the /track command in. If the /trackie happens to be in a city, all the we just get a wp to the city and nothing else. The BH's should worry less about taking what we already have, and more about fixing what they have. If their droids worked on players, and were less buggy, and did not work in the wilderness then we would have no problems. We would both have our area of expertise. If we needed to track in the city, we would have to hire them, and if they wanted to track in the wilderness they would have to hire us.
Now, as to ranger being a supporting role, that is just insane. Look at what it takes to get it. If anything, the other stuff we pick up should be our supporting skills. Ranger for its cost should not only be sufficient on its own, but equally valid in PvP and PvE. I just can not stand that a commando with novice scout and one level of exploration is schooling us in PvE. Adding a couple working traps and camps is just not going to put us on par with a comando, who I think we all know is the 'ultimate creature hunter,' which seems to be part of the 'ultimate outdoorsman' theme we are working with. I think that has to change.
My thoughts.
This thread rocks NRaas. You truly are the best correspondent. 