Ranger Archive

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mp3durahell wrote:
What other professiosn give a boost to CL, health, grant armor certs and are able to apply states? Oh, right. COMBAT professions.

That, OR ranger professions. Who also is a combat profession. Though PvE profession. So your point drowned.

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My point didn't "drown" at all...you just said my point-- Ranger is a combat profession. You literally just said it yourself.

I simply disagree that Ranger should be PvE only. In it's present build, yes, that is the case. But I've been playing as a Ranger for two years now and I've learned a lot about the game and how the game functions. Because of the CU and the level-is-everything approach to the game, there simply is no way to balance Ranger as a combat profession if it is creature-only.

To make Ranger worth the points, you have to consider that in a fair world where Ranger is balanced to fit it's point cost, it would have to be signficantly more powerful. Since we're cut off from 2/3rds of the game, it stands to reason that all that power should be put into the one area where we do operate-- making us much, much more powerful in PvE.

However, you simply cannot do that in this game. The second Rangers become more powerful in PvCreature combat to a significant degree is the second every Jedi has a Ranger alt to farm pearls. The second that happens is the second that the devs re-balance all the critters in the game to make them harder, which is what happened with the Feral Wookiees-- they're now much tougher for anybody to complete because of the farming there.

It boils down to this: any profession which can only participate in certain areas of the game will either have to be significantly more powerful in that one area, or it won't be worth the skillpoints. A Ranger Revamp which sees us remain creature only will either make us too powerful or not powerful enough-- there simply is no way to balance a profession like this in this level-based system. We can't become the most powerful lvl 80 in the game against crtitters. Look at how the game reacts to Jedi being more powerful-- very poorly.

To make a Ranger revamp where we become balanced, our skills need to apply in all aspects of the game. Only then will we see Rangers balanced. If Ranger skills work in all aspects of the game, then we'll be able to hunt creatures, just like we can today. Nothing will change our ability to kill creatures if we get some skills that work in PvP.

Again, the game-wide theory of development makes us better all-around, including our ability to hunt. A narrow, focused, creature-only theory will restrict us from 2/3rds of the game and not help us that much in the end.

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mp3durahell wrote:

So what? Ranger is indeed a "Elite" profession. But just because of that doesnt mean it is a combat profession!

Should all Armor Crafters and Droid Engineers gain several attacks and tons of defences? Just because they are also "Elite" professions? NO!

You make your choises! If you want combat you take combat professions, if you want both, you take one non-combat profession AND one combat profession. But dont gain as many attacks or defences/offences.

Ranger doesn't have "combatant" written all over it. If you think it should be a part of the GCW you probably just doesn't understan what a rangers purposes are. I really hope the Devs keep the ranger "ranger". It would be faaar to weird to see rangers running around trapping people and soloing jedi's. Rangers are already as good as they are and have their super important roles in the game.

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Zenoee wrote:

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mp3durahell wrote:

So what? Ranger is indeed a "Elite" profession. But just because of that doesnt mean it is a combat profession!

Should all Armor Crafters and Droid Engineers gain several attacks and tons of defences? Just because they are also "Elite" professions? NO!

You make your choises! If you want combat you take combat professions, if you want both, you take one non-combat profession AND one combat profession. But dont gain as many attacks or defences/offences.

Ranger doesn't have "combatant" written all over it. If you think it should be a part of the GCW you probably just doesn't understan what a rangers purposes are. I really hope the Devs keep the ranger "ranger". It would be faaar to weird to see rangers running around trapping people and soloing jedi's. Rangers are already as good as they are and have their super important roles in the game.

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Ok sticking with the topic and trying not to get upset enough for name calling...

Ranger ISSUES!

What is our super important role in this game? Let's see Bounty Hunters are expert person hunters, right? That is what they do hunt people, and they are the best at it. Rangers are ELITE hunters! HUNTERS! We are designed to only hunt creatures. For me, that's ok. The thing is we are NOT the ELITE hunters, we are only ok at it. Sure we can track, harvest more per kill, and throw some traps that cause effects, but that is only side effects to the actual hunting. Talking of only traps any combat profession has better effect shots than we have traps AND they can use them on anything. To hunt means to kill. Who is better at soloing a Krayt, a BH or MR? How about a Master of ANY combat profession or a MRanger? When it comes to hunting creatures a MRanger 'should' make them fall faster than anybody else. The thing I see as an issue is that all combat professions are combatants, that's players, npcs, and creatures. Rangers are however, just creatures, so shouldn't we be better at it? So what if they revamped us and every jedi got a Ranger alt to get pearls? Anybody that wanted Doc buffs got a Doc alt, people got Armorsmith alts to make themselves armor. That's what you do if you want one aspect of the game that you don't have readily available. Make us the Elite hunter we should be! When it comes to hunting I have a Mrifleman/Mranger and the only ranger features I use to help out are traps, well that and camo cause it last longer than mask scent, or seems too, and it feels like I am using ranger skills more.

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Almagill wrote:


We are designed to only hunt creatures?? You have used areatrack, haven't you? See how the options go all the way from creatures, people to players...

Plenty of ranger/BH hybrids out there too, and they're not just in it to hunt wabbits

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Zenoee wrote:

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Almagill wrote:


We are designed to only hunt creatures?? You have used areatrack, haven't you? See how the options go all the way from creatures, people to players...

Plenty of ranger/BH hybrids out there too, and they're not just in it to hunt wabbits

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Very true! Area track does work with npcs, and players. What I was refering to is how they have set up the profession. It's not included in the CU map. We are designed as hunters of creatures only. To keep balance BH are for hunting people and we are for hunting creatures. The area track is a great thing for BH also. That is what mixing professions are. We don't have a place in the GCW because we are creature hunters. Now I wouldn't mind having a place there, I won't deny that, it's just that's how we are set up and how it seems the devs intended the ranger profession to be, we are creature killers only. That doesn't mean we can't track something or someone, just that it may be harder for us to kill someone than other true combat professions. My "Ranger ISSUE" is that if we "ARE" set up as creature hunters, and we use all those skill points getting to Master, we should be the best at killing a creature and not just finding and tracking them. Sure a revamped Ranger that is as powerfull against anything, person or creature, and having a real place in GCW would be great. I don't think the devs see this profession that way.

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Actually, we don't have a place on the graphic for the simple reason that we were specifically left OUT of the CU and all efforts at balancing and placing different profs there, as we were deemed "out of scope" for the CU for whatever the reason. It's a bit flawed to saw because we're not on there, we're supposed to be creature only, or to say that we were left off becuase we are only supposed to hunt creatures, or any variation on that theme. We were left out, and were told we were "out of the scope". To my knowledge, no other reasons were ever given (unless they were provided to the sandbox team or the Corrs, and those folks might still be bound by NDAs to not say either way).

The point that BH's are for hunting people is valid... but only if that means they are then PROHIBITED from using any of their skills and specials against creatures. We all know that isn't the case and, in fact, is a fairly ridiculous idea when you stop to think about it. So why then should Rangers be limited to ONLY being able to hunt and kill creatures? If every other combat profession in the game couldn't do a lick of damage to a single creature in the game, sure, I'd be all for Rangers being creature only since we'd totally own the market for resources, GDK scales/gurk hides/pearls/glands/tissues/etc. But the fact is, any combat master with a gun, a sword or his bare hands can go out and whomp on creatures, NPCs, or anything else for that matter. We're the only ones who see our skills and specials not only weaker than all the others (in the case of traps and applied states) but also artifically handicapped and prevented from working against fully 2/3 of the possible opponents in the game. Not cool and not fun.

given the sp usage of ranger you would expect more from the profession but as ranger is not fantastic for taking down animals or even worth using as a support class for taking down animals. what use is it?

ranger should be the ultimate hunter!!

Rangers shud be able to take on even highend mobs. yes you did hear me right! As ranger is not a pvp class noone needs to worry about improvements on ranger unbalancing the game. We will leave that to combat medic ranger's harvesting should be unique in everyway.

1. why does ranger harvest just 1 resource? since when did good hunters leave all resources bar 1 on the ground to rot? when a ranger harvests he should automatically get all resources off the animal he just killed.

2. milking? when a scout can milk just as much as a ranger you know something isnt right. master ranger should harvest at least 5 times more.Yes i did say 5 times more! milk is hardly ever on the vendor search which is an obvious indication that this resource needs a specialist, a ranger! when a master ranger harvests milk the creature should not runaway nor should he receive a message you carry on milking bla bla bla he shud get the milk and quickly and easy to make this once unaffordable and mostly unavailable resource more common in the swg market.

3. traps, the rangerand histraps go hand in hand however they are ridiculously slow have little or no effect and also because of the skill point usage it takes to get to master ranger it doesnt allow the proffesion to have any decent healing whatsoever and it's defence is very bad so when these traps do not have much effect the animalbatters a ranger when it gets close to him/her. This makes ranger the worst preffesion to have while fighting animals. forgive me if I am mistaken ...SHOULDN'T THIS BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!!NUFF SAID.

4. Skill point usage in ranger is disgusting. ranger is the only proffession that cannot supliment his template with any healing skills because of this. This is totally out of order and needs fixing right now.

5. defence on ranger without a doubt is the poorest ever. +10 melee defence +10 ranged defence??? is someone having a laugh at ranger? must be. I guess they wanted to paint a big target on a ranger's backside with the words saying hit me I'm a weakling!

6. camo packs. whats the point of these if i still get aggroed at master ranger with these items being used on myself.

7. foraging. tell me a ranger that goes round foraging and finds anything of any value. in fact tell me of a ranger that even uses the skill. I think it's safe to say this is useless for any scout/ranger. why even bother giving us mods for it. it's useless unless ranger actually found anything useful it will remian that way. perhaps let rangers be the only proff that can search for important items using forage at the end of a cave for a special item? somthing along those lines would be a good idea.

Message Edited by steveybabes on 09-19-2005 10:14 PM

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MsNiL wrote:

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Phenix1050 wrote:

I like a lot of these ideas, MsNiL. My only point of contention would be specials that only work against creatures, and traps that are only for creatures. I've been looking at it, and there really no way to balance any profession that's uber in PvE but bad in PvP. If your game design is to make Ranger equal in power to a profession, but then shift 70% (just as a number, not saying that's the number you would use) of that power into PvCreature, then Rangers still lack a role in the GCW but they're over-powered against Krayts, meaning other people take them as alts to go loot hunting.

The only way I see to make Ranger viable and balanced in PvE and PvP is to make all of our skills work in all areas of the game. That includes a stealth ability equal to that of Jedi as well as the ability to place the most debilitating states on people in PvP. A Ranger should be the best root/snare person in the game, as traps are the ONLY way to apply states without damage, and to be balanced, that state needs to be more powerful.

For the record, I can solo ancient Krayts as a Ranger, but it mostly relies on non-Ranger skillls, and that's a problem. The only usefull tools Rangers have is the p-dart and terrain negotiation...both of which are gotten in scout. The only thing the Ranger helps with, really, is having a trapping level high enough to trap Krayts.

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There's an old quote: "Smugglers cant Smuggle". Whenever I hear that, I subconsciously think "Rangers cant hunt".
In ancient times I was a Ranger... but I quit once I realised that there wasnt more to it than tracking creatures and harvest more each kill.

You are right about the GCW... and dumping Rangers in the GCW wasnt my intention.

On one hand, I am thinking a Ranger is a wilderness person, focused on killing creatures, not people.

On another hand, I am thinking a Ranger in his own turf is a very fierce opponent, although more like a fish outside water in a city.

Worst thing that would happen if that Ranger becomes yet another dabbled-in pvp class... which happens if you have cheap accessible abilities that works everywhere.

So what I was thinking was something like:

PvP Inside a City: Accuracy: 60, Speed: 20, Defense: 70, Poisondots, Special Weapons (While not an urban soldier, they still have a few tricks)

PvP Outside a City: +Special Wilderness bonuses, player traps (Rangers rule in the wilderness)

PvE: +Damage bonuses, aim, volleyfire, more kinds of traps (Rangers rule to kill creatures).

Does it make sense?

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Message Edited by Dyrwen on 09-19-2005 10:25 PM

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Dyrwen wrote:
Um, all good points, but a lot of those issues you just numbered off are being fixed in the revamp. Click on the "Revamp FAQ" to get that info. heh

Edit: that was directed at steve

Message Edited by Dyrwen on 09-19-2005 10:25 PM

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Message Edited by steveybabes on 09-19-2005 11:55 PM

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steveybabes wrote:

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MsNiL wrote:

PvP Inside a City: Accuracy: 60, Speed: 20, Defense: 70, Poisondots, Special Weapons (While not an urban soldier, they still have a few tricks)

PvP Outside a City: +Special Wilderness bonuses, player traps (Rangers rule in the wilderness)

PvE: +Damage bonuses, aim, volleyfire, more kinds of traps (Rangers rule to kill creatures).

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A ranger isnt a pvp'er .He/she has chose this proffesion to hunt animals andall mods should be applied to that. A ranger should be the ultimate in taking down animals not players.

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I did not list that they should be ultimate in taking down players.

ranger issue #1

there is no ranger profession as of November 15, 2005