Ranger Archive
Thread: T-t-t-trapping! What do you think?
Farmi
Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:54 am
#40
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Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
So, I envision a couple of ways to fix trapping:
•Traps stay as they are and become 'skills' rather than needing a crafted component
No, I don’t want them to become skills. I make a little bit of money from selling our craftables and its nice to be of more use to my friends who need camo kits.
•Traps stay as the are, but you can experiment duration, effectiveness, etc.
I like the idea of being able to experiment on them, as one person said it would add a bit more depth to just throwing a trap until it worked, we could actually help with making them work.
•Traps stay as they, but you can use them on anything in the game...creature, NPC, PC
Use them on anything…… Fabulous. I like that one. We have pvp group fights in our guild and all I really do is intimidate, knockdown and not much else (I’m pike.. they are all jedi’s) but to be able to trap them would be cool. A trap to make jedi's melt like witches and water would be funny, lol!!!
•Traps get experimentation and you can use them on anything
•Traps get experimentation and you can use them on anything
Combination of my two favourite things, even better.
•Traps become skills and you can use them on anything
No to skills again.
•And, of course, modular trapping
Not sure what that means.
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I think as someone has already suggested making the traps all craftable at scout or the first 2 boxes of ranger, personally. After those we should have maybe the next box for npcs and then at master level we should get player trapping. Although I do agree with the person who suggests having other traps for players and npcs, since I’m not sure how what we have now would affect them. A rooter would be good.
'Or, you toss a trap that opens up a hole in the ground they drop into. Or the trap releases a bunch of insects or snakes or some such that attacks them. Athela.. I love that idea.
Anyway, that what i think at the moment.
Thank you for reading.
Mousekin
Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:30 am
#41
Traps should be fixed to do what they're supposed to do.
Duration and "to hit" should be based on the skill.
They should be crafted with harvested resources.
I do not support experimentation, at least not right now. I'ma bit ambivalent but the crafter in me simply rebels that a non-artisan can experiment on anything /me shrugs.
I love traps I do not want to see them turned into just another special 'move' (skill in that sense).
I would like to see the throwing speed reduced as one gained trapping boxes - with the highest reduction available at Master Ranger.
RE: use vs. NPCs... careful here be dragons! So to speak.. but seriously, if traps suddenly become useful against NPCs then I can see people running around with just enough trapping and whatnot to use them. Should they be allowed to if that's what they choose to do with their skill credits? Sure - but (here's my worry) if there is a *really* useful trap in a lower box that's good vs. NPCs I'm afraid it could well unbalance combat. I'd like to think the devs would never make something unbalanced like that but... yeah, right.
What I was thinking is something like this: let *some* of the traps be useful, but not all. The tranquilizer used in Phenacine Darts for instance, isn't likely to function the same way on humanoids as it does on creatures (technically I know it shouldn't function on all creatures too!) With that sort of rationale, stuff like adhesive mesh (assuming it ever works again) SHOULD work vs. NPCs - but perhaps the duration wouldn't be as good. Perhaps one could argue intelligent beings might be able to get it off faster.
Anyway, just some things I have been thinking about - I think a full blanket use of all traps vs. NPCs would be a mistake, though perhaps my worst fears wouldn't come to light considering that it's rare to find a group that let's one stop and throw a trap with the speed of typical combat nowadays.
Oculus
Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:48 am
#42
Mousekin wrote:
I do not support experimentation, at least not right now. I'm a bit ambivalent but the crafter in me simply rebels that a non-artisan can experiment on anything /me shrugs.
We can already experiment on camo kits and since we get schematics, we are to some degree an artisan profession
RE: use vs. NPCs... careful here be dragons! So to speak.. but seriously, if traps suddenly become useful against NPCs then I can see people running around with just enough trapping and whatnot to use them. Should they be allowed to if that's what they choose to do with their skill credits? Sure - but (here's my worry) if there is a *really* useful trap in a lower box that's good vs. NPCs I'm afraid it could well unbalance combat. I'd like to think the devs would never make something unbalanced like that but... yeah, right.
First, the effects and states caused by traps are now widely available in every combat profession. You don't have to pick up trapping for this, weapon specials work just fine.
CL 80 is where everything happens. In order to trap something of that CL you need Ranger trapping. If you want to Master Scout and pick up 3-4 boxes of Ranger in order to snare a CL NPC... go ahead. Apart from Rifleman(?) every combat profession has an effective root/snare/mez. Even combat support professions do, like CM. They all work fine and dandy on creatures, NPCs and PCs alike.
Oku Kee'lus
TheSatyr01
Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:10 pm
#43
My thoughts: Fix the bugged traps,keep them craftable and allow experimentation
Allow traps to be used against creatures and NPCs.
I don't believe traps should ever be allowed to be used against PCs. Why you might ask? Because the BH and Jedi (and other proffs) would hate that...and Ranger would get nerfed back into near oblivion again. (I know BHs would have a fit over it...since the onesI know feel THEY should be the ones that should get PVP usable traps),
Rangers need a hell of alot of work...but lets not get ourselves into the position where any future fixes lead to nerf bats being swung in our direction.
Phenix1050
Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:19 pm
#44
I highly doubt Jedi's and BH's would care. BH's don't have a trapping pre-requisite now, there is no way they have a right to PC traps. And a person can already apply every state we have to Jedi. MBH/Master Smuggler/Pistoleer 0004 has a root, a snare, a mez...more that we have, actually, and their states also do damage when they hit. Why would a Jedi possibly care if somebody else got those states?
TheSatyr01 wrote:
I don't believe traps should ever be allowed to be used against PCs. Why you might ask? Because the BH and Jedi (and other proffs) would hate that...and Ranger would get nerfed back into near oblivion again. (I know BHs would have a fit over it...since the onesI know feel THEY should be the ones that should get PVP usable traps),
LastEE
Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:08 pm
#45
Phenix1050 wrote:
I highly doubt Jedi's and BH's would care. BH's don't have a trapping pre-requisite now, there is no way they have a right to PC traps. And a person can already apply every state we have to Jedi. MBH/Master Smuggler/Pistoleer 0004 has a root, a snare, a mez...more that we have, actually, and their states also do damage when they hit. Why would a Jedi possibly care if somebody else got those states?
TheSatyr01 wrote:
I don't believe traps should ever be allowed to be used against PCs. Why you might ask? Because the BH and Jedi (and other proffs) would hate that...and Ranger would get nerfed back into near oblivion again. (I know BHs would have a fit over it...since the ones I know feel THEY should be the ones that should get PVP usable traps),
And Ranger (Even with a skillpoint reduction) would still be very expensive way JUST to get to apply a state they can get much cheaper elsewhere.
I vote for Experimentation like camo kits (you get 2-5 charges depending on trap if you don't craft with a specialized tool at a station) or if you do experiment you can affect number of charges.
Work on everything with a pulse
I'd rather we copy commando code rather than combat medic code to have to have the item equipped but I reserve the right to change my mind on that one.
Also, copy minefield code to make area ground-placed traps, at-least as a placeable defense around a non-disbanding field base.
Wystery
Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:46 pm
#46
I like traps the way they are too. Experimentation would be nice, but I think the game will be relatively the same with or without trap experimentation. I would prefer some traps to work on PCs or NPCs, just since they realistically should. A sonic pulse should stun anything that can hear, blinding flash should blind anything that can see, and a sticky mesh should stick to anything. *shrug*
TaranDraconise
Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:02 am
#47
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
This is just a simple discussion thread about trapping. I want to get an idea of what people think should be the future of trapping.
So, I envision a couple of ways to fix trapping:
- Traps stay as they are and become 'skills'rather thanneeding a crafted component
- Traps stay as the are, but you can experiment duration, effectiveness, etc.
- Traps stay as they, but you can use them on anything in the game...creature, NPC, PC
- Traps get experimentation and you can use them on anything
- Traps become skills and you can use them on anything
- And, of course, modular trapping
- Please add any other scenarios you envision
So, tell me what you think, or what I am missing.
Traps should stay as they are and be usable on anything. If you start changing the crafting mechanics then ranger becomes a Pre-CU MCM with experimentation and components. If ranger is to have any types of changes done to it we should retain our superior harvesting and tracking skills but be given a larger role in pvp combat. Adjust the defenses and increase general ranged speed and accuracy. I'm a work horse i need to be able to harvest the organics solo and not the cl50 lairs that seem easiest. We need to be able to deal higher damages to the higher creature lairs. The creature to hit mod should be maxed at master ranger.
TheSatyr01
Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:56 pm
#48
Hell,I guess I'm just biased...I'm a PVE only player...and want to see Rangers be the ultimate creature killers...with the ability to take down NPCs better than we do now.
Because of thatI don't really think much about how to improve Ranger as a PVP profession. I should probably stay out of the Ranger improvement threads since I don't "see" the whole picture due to my playstyle.
Serraphin
Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:39 pm
#49
I would like to see traps that can be used on anything. Ranger traps should require named resources and in some cases rare drops or foraged items from specific locations. Traps should have various values that can be experimented on.
Tarnak_Archvold
Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:14 am
#50
First off make all the traps actuarially work.
Then make them work while running.
Then the trapping mod should be a countered by range defence and add a trapping speed mod. That way a dabbler cannot use traps on high level contend as well as a master ranger. Also rangers would need a higher trapping mod say 200?
As for experimentation, only on quantity, like with camo kits. The moment traps get duration, or to hit bonus as stats the trapping modules in droids will stop to work, as they only have the trap type and amount of traps stored.
Next, make traps stackable like some the vehicle reconstruction kits, and smuggler tools. That way we would not have to drag more then one of a type trap to the toolbar (and perhaps even only once to twice per hunt). That way, we could avoid having them as skills, and still to get combat more fluent.
After all that has been fixed, we can expand traps to work on NPC's. It would only take one BH/Ranger using traps on a Jedi to get traps nerfed to be less useful then they are now.
Alternatively, give traps a much lower to hit chance against players.
Oh and lastly, remove the square they leave on the radar after having been thrown. It can get a bit cluttered up.
Of cause a few more traps like a knockdown trap or a choke trap (imagine blocking a creatures air way with an adhesive mesh) would be nice, but I have almost giving up dreaming...
Then make them work while running.
Then the trapping mod should be a countered by range defence and add a trapping speed mod. That way a dabbler cannot use traps on high level contend as well as a master ranger. Also rangers would need a higher trapping mod say 200?
As for experimentation, only on quantity, like with camo kits. The moment traps get duration, or to hit bonus as stats the trapping modules in droids will stop to work, as they only have the trap type and amount of traps stored.
Next, make traps stackable like some the vehicle reconstruction kits, and smuggler tools. That way we would not have to drag more then one of a type trap to the toolbar (and perhaps even only once to twice per hunt). That way, we could avoid having them as skills, and still to get combat more fluent.
After all that has been fixed, we can expand traps to work on NPC's. It would only take one BH/Ranger using traps on a Jedi to get traps nerfed to be less useful then they are now.
Alternatively, give traps a much lower to hit chance against players.
Oh and lastly, remove the square they leave on the radar after having been thrown. It can get a bit cluttered up.
Of cause a few more traps like a knockdown trap or a choke trap (imagine blocking a creatures air way with an adhesive mesh) would be nice, but I have almost giving up dreaming...
Mousekin
Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:08 am
#51
Making them work while running would be useful, especially if they don't want to change the animation speed.
It would almost be nice to have a regular old ground version... that you place, and then try to lure stuff into but I guess that's not feasible (else traps likely wouldn't have been made thrown weapons in the very beginning).
Phenix1050
Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:12 am
#52
Somebody honestly explain this to me-- there are already roots and snares in the game with LOTS of other combat professions. Combat medics, pistoleers, rifleman,carbineers, smugglers-- ALL of them have a root or a snare, and they have something we dont- a Mez, which completely prevents a person from healing, moving and attacking.So why on earth shouldn't our traps work, and why would somebody complain about them when those same effects are in the game? I'm curious, that's all.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
After all that has been fixed, we can expand traps to work on NPC's. It would only take one BH/Ranger using traps on a Jedi to get traps nerfed to be less useful then they are now.
Alternatively, give traps a much lower to hit chance against players.