Ranger Archive

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NRaas wrote:

"I would start the optional Generic slots at Improved Camp Kit and leave the two first ones alone since they are just that: basic camps."

I don't see why the Ranger profession should reap all the benefits of this proposal though. We would be the only players able to create certain modules, and cutting out a potentially huge market of Scout crafters sounds rather incongruous.

My main goal in fighting this is that if you give this to Scouts (whom by the way is half of the players due to how much scout is tied to other elete professions) then we loose what could be potentially a very defining skill for rangers. Also, being able to mod the basic camp seems silly to me. It is basic. allowing it to be modable makes it more than basic. I include the multiperson camp because I feel it is just a bigger basic camp. Improved camp in its name implies that you could add a module or two to it.

So, I would feel better if 1. Rangers were the only ones to be able to mod these scout camps, which only makes ranger more significant. Scouts can still use these modded scout camps that we make, but that's just it, we have to make them for them. So we are making the camps for the scouts, not the modules for them to put in their camps. I don't understand what market of scout crafters you are talking about that I am cutting out, unless you mean the modules we won't be able to sell to them. I would imagine I could make more money making specialized camps that scouts can use, rather than making and selling a whole 2 or 3 different types of modules for these scouts to use in their camps. Both ways scouts bennefit from this new system, its just that my way Scouts are the ones who can use camps while Rangers are the ones who can customise and use these camps.

or if 2. Basic and Multiperson camps are unmoddable so that scouts have to get up to the improved camp in order to be able to make custom camps. This may not be some great feat, but then we at least have someone relatively committed to scout taking advantage this new ability.

Of course I think both points make sense, but if I had to compromise I'd put much more weight on point 1 than point 2.

Okay NRass. you win. Scouts get modular camps too. However to stick with my proposal that only elite professions be able to craft modules (to cut down on the market and make them more valuable) scouts wouldn't be able to make modules. They can make camps that accept modules, but haven't had enough experience to make a mod themselves. But I have a new proposal for you that I think you may like. I tried posting once, it didn't work, but I'm actually going to try to do the KISS method of posting. Here's the outline for what I think should happen ( i'm just including changes, most of the stuff, I like)

• There wil be three types of camps: Scout, SL and Ranger. Scout camps have very basic inherent traits. They provide very low wound healing, the ability to call pets/vehicles and the ability to logout safely. Ranger camps (all Ranger camps) provide the same things, but have an added healing bonus. All SL fortifications retain the same skills, but have an added defense mod and an added attack mod.


• There are FIVE types of modules able to be placed: Generic, Creature, Humanoid, Passive Healing, Passive Buffing (could use some name help) Generic modules could be used on all three types of camps. Passive Healing and Creature modules are only useable in Ranger camps and include stages and wound healing(though there should be a small wound healing module in the generic line). Humanoid and Passive Buff modules are useable in Squad Leader camps.


• Passive Buffing would be used as a counter-weight to the fact that only Ranger Camps are good at healing. In a Fortification, your senses would heighten as you prepared for an imminent attack, essentially adding an "adrenaline rush" (could be the module name-- "Adrenaline Amplifier") to you, making you stronger, faster and more alert than usual. Thus Ranger Camps would be the only place to passively heal and a Squad Leader Fortifications would be the only place to recieve a temporarty buff (that gets better with the different levels of the modules).


• I still think that the modules should be applied by level rather than by type. For example, rather than saying that a camp can have 3 medical modules, 1 creature module and one humanoid module, simply say that a camp has 10 (just throwing this out, not a real number) module slots. Level one modules take up one slot, Level 2 take up two, etc. Thus, Rangers/SL's could either make diverse camps that only help a little bit on each front, or instead choose high-level modules that do exactly what the Ranger/SL needs it to at that time. I.E. a camp with 10 module slots could have five level 2 modules or three level 3 module and one level one, of any type that can be used.

That's pretty much it. But I have a question...what about a joint SL/Ranger Camp/Fort? The two proffessions most at home making temporary structures outdoors combing to create the High Tech Command Base(again, help with name), a structure that lasts twice as long as any other fortification and can access all the modules. This would require HUGE amounts of resources so as to not make it feasible to use in every situation, but in certain situations, it would be an all in one camps, providing all the inherent abilities of the other camps. This would be the supreme outdoors facitlity and could only be used in the most dire of circumstances. I'm litereally saying it should cost about 1k, 100 metal, 250 bone for EACH half of the basic design (not including modules). Thus it would not be able good to hunt chubbas with it, but if you hear about an upcoming attack on a faction base in or near your city, you set up a camp in front of the base to provde the best defense for the base. This would be the ultimate camping experience and would help to promote interdependancy

my goodness, NRass. I actually changed my stubborn little mind, a possible counterbalance to Ranger camps healing presents itself (passive buffing) and I try to make my post as SHORT as possible? Is it just me, or does it seem like this is taking shape? to reflect that, I'm gonna change my usual signature.

Till next time, boys and girls: Peace, Love and Modular Camping

So... trying to take an objective look at now vs. future..

Currently, at Master Ranger:

• All camps are made from same basic materials: bone, hide, metal


• Top level camps (HTFB @ Frontiering IV)




• Heal rate at 2x normal


• Heal 2nd stats (slowly)


• 2 crafting stations


• Creature Protection (that's broken)

Using the Modular Camps, at Master Ranger

• Create camps using same basic materials: bone, hide, metal


• Create 6 different modules - materials undefined




• Improved healing


• Creature protection/defensive bonus (2 different levels)


• Combat fortification


• Bonus for attacks against creatures


• Creature spawn


• Have the choice of up to 15 additional modules that must be created by other professions that can be mixed and matched




• Note: can only use a total of 4 modules at any one time

From the viewpoint of complete self sufficiency, using the modular terminology - old camps have3 static (lumping the healing together) modules (4 if they fix the broken one) vs. new camps with 4 slots that accommodate 6 different modules (5 if you consider that one is an upgrade to another).

Additionally, the modular camps enable the use of modules crafted by other professions (in 15 varieties or assuming Master Rangers would carry only advanced models, 12 varieties). The highest level modules are only made by other professions.

Comments:

Of the number of classes that can create Level 4 modules, why are Rangers not included? Shouldn't we be able to create a module for use in our own top-level camp? Yet, squad leaders aren't similarly excluded. It stikes me as a bit odd that where rangers were once the only class that could create anything approaching this type of camp, we are now excluded at the most advanced level.

Now, rangers can make anything they need (camp wise) with a total of 3 ingredients. Under the new system, there's more flexibility, but at the added expense of purchasing materials from 6 different disciplines (artisan, entertainer, doctor, squad leader, commando, bio-engineer). Additionally, in order to be able to use these modules, rangers will have to pack as many as 12 different crates of modules. Less could be carried, but you'd probably want to keep what you don't carry on hand in your house. Perhaps we should also negotiate a larger capacity backpack, wearable only by rangers.

Looking at the way the camps play out, a novice ranger has a maximum of 2 slots to use in their camps. Yet, at the top scout camp, you have 3 available slots. Shouldn't the novice ranger have at least as many slots to work with as a scout. Granted, one slot at novice ranger is a higher category, but I don't think that makes up for the loss in flexibility.

At all advanced levels, Squad Leaders can make the same camps as Rangers, with the only exception being that SL's level 3modules are humanoid vs creature defense. So instead of differentiating Rangers camps from everyone else's scout-based camps, we've created a complete copy of what is supposed to be our "advantage" within another class. Does this strike anyone else as watering down our class overall? I thought the point to this exercise was to INCREASE ranger camp desireablilty, not duplicate it in another class. This system is the equivalent of removing one of the four branches that are supposed to be unique to our class.

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NRaas wrote:

"why not give the SL camp inhabitants a HAM bonus?"

What do we call the module? The Biogenic Amplifier?

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"The squad leader is about leadership and morale, so maybe just call it something like a Rallying Point."

Perhaps the Rallying Point module should be the lower level version of the Biogenic module, something the SLcan make on their own. But if they want the bigger juice, they need the help of a Bio-Engineer.

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It is true, we are sharing this skill with two other proffession (scout and SL), but our camps would be unique from those other camps because they'd use different modules.

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Um.. hate to break it to you, but ranger camps WON'T be unique from other camps. Squad Leaders, under this plan, will be able to make the SAME CAMPS as rangers, even at the master level. So instead of someone saying, "gee, I need a ranger on this trip" it will be "gee, I could use a ranger or a squad leader on this trip." The class that benefits the most from this plan will be squad leaders, NOT rangers.

At the beginning levels, professions share a good many of the skills since they serve as a baseline from which all other professions branch. At the elite level, I expect that the "Master" qualification will grant abilities that are unique to that profession. This plan violates that premise.

With the Sqaud Leader/Commando and Ranger crafted modules, can either class make and deploy camps that include modules crafted by the other class or only their own class specific modules and any modules created by a class that can't place a camp? That is, if a ranger were to make the creature defensive modules for a squad leader, could the squad leader build the equivalent of a ranger camp and vice-versa? If not, disregard everything that follows. If so, I think there needs to be some sort of penalty or restriction for using the other class' modules. (only in the case of SL/Commando and Ranger modules) There needs to be some sort of reduced effectiveness to indicate that while either class may be able to assemble and place the other's camps, they don't know how to use and place them most effectively. This would help add to the distinction of each class' specific camps.

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Spekter wrote:

With the Sqaud Leader/Commando and Ranger crafted modules, can either class make and deploy camps that include modules crafted by the other class or only their own class specific modules and any modules created by a class that can't place a camp? That is, if a ranger were to make the creature defensive modules for a squad leader, could the squad leader build the equivalent of a ranger camp and vice-versa?

...snip...

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I had the hair-brained idea that the ranger firstdeploys the camp then theappropriate profession-type adds the module to the camp once the camp isdeployed. Programatically it's easier to control and a fairer system (imho). Also makes having each type of profession imprtant in the hunting party. SoE likes grouping and there is the excuse for it

I'd also like to see inserts that do "stick" like the crafting station. You can buy these from an architect anyway and put it in a house, might as well have it work the same for a camp. However, this would mean that we would have to go with a recoverable style of camp, else we would be buying a new crafting station each time with that method.

NRass you have a very good and imaginative idea but what you are considering is a moblie faction HQ, maybe something even better than an HQ this might not sit well with the devs. I also dont like other professions dipping into our realm we already share a commonality with Squad leader with Terrain Negotiation lets not add more to that. Its seems that we keep trying to share our abilities with other professions this is not helping us become unique.

If this does go through this disrupts the idea that rangers are the Ultimate Creature Hunters by adding the whole modular base idea, if so them we DO NEED traps that affect humanoids cause you ar putting us in the middle of PvP conflict.

I really like the idea of setting up a HTFB then tranfering command of the base to say a medic or doctor while i go off and snipe people with my rifle now that a very good plan. Im sorry i can not agree with the modular idea, also a hunting blind camp would also fit into our role as the Ultimate Creatue Hunter as a Rifleman i pvp just fine. I do like the idea that the role of the ranger is defined.

Good Luck NRaas your going to need it

Hermit Ranger or Corellia

"From the viewpoint of complete self sufficiency, using the modular terminology - old camps have3 static (lumping the healing together) modules (4 if they fix the broken one)"

The old system (as envisioned through the eyes of the modular system):

Basic Camp

• Healing Rate

Multiperson Camp

• Healing Rate

Improved Camp

• Healing Rate

High Quality Camp

• Creature Suppression


• Healing Rate

Field Base

• Creature Suppression


• Healing Rate


• Crafting Station

High Tech Field Base

• Creature Suppression


• Healing Rate


• Crafting Station


• Crafting Station

"Of the number of classes that can create Level 4 modules, why are Rangers not included?"

Because no one has given me an idea as to what such a module would be.

I actuallythink that the Machine Gun and Rocket Launcher modules should now go in Weaponsmith, and will be making that adjustment.

"Now, rangers can make anything they need (camp wise) with a total of 3 ingredients."

Yes, those crafting tools are amazing, aren't they?

"Granted, one slot at novice ranger is a higher category, but I don't think that makes up for the loss in flexibility."

Really? It opens up another level of modules, while still allowing people to use the slot for the lower level modules as well if they feel like it.

"we've created a complete copy of what is supposed to be our "advantage" within another class."

And I have asked you all already to give me ideas as to how to differentiate them, so far I have received no response.

"They can make camps that accept modules, but haven't had enough experience to make a mod themselves."

Under the system described, the only module made by the Scout profession is the Medical Bay module.

Using that module, they don't lose anything in the modular system, as that was the only thing that their camps used to do, but don't do inherently now.

What I am presuming you are talking about is denying Scouts the ability to add components to their camp schematics. I don't see why we need to do that.

By whetting their appetites with the smaller less flexible camps, they will see the benefits of the higher camps even clearer. Possibly choosing to use camps made by the Ranger Merchant more often.

The scout camps can not have the higher level functionality within them because the Level of the slot denies them the option to add it.

Do you see some module that should not be available to the Scout profession? We can certainly increase the Level of that module and make it more restricted.