Ranger Archive

Message Edited by groundcrew on 08-03-2005 03:30 AM

Issue: It takes 28 skill points for a Jedi to obtain /forcecloak.

Why wouldn't it be acceptable for Ranger camoflauge to have such an ability? Because everyone can use it now? And it would be impossible to differentiate the code of a non-Ranger using it and a Ranger using it? Impossible?

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Taslack wrote:

What I would like to see:

1) Great increase in tracking, further then the radar. Mabye require crafted binoculars, player crafted please, oooh a ranger crafted item thru random forage loot.
2) Loot increase chance for rare loot is a great idea, altho will have to impliment some way that the economy will not be too effected and would have to be a Master Ranger.
3) Camps and traps do need to be looked at, imho they are worthless. I would love to see traps able to work on NPCs and Players
4) Special ranger hat.
5) Master Ranger specific vehicle that would travel over terrain better then currently available, mabye a special multi-player vehicle that is as fast as the swoop.
6) Camo should be camo, either invisible or realy make it hard to see us.

Dont expect all these but even some minor changes would get me excited.

Message Edited by Taslack on 08-03-2005 05:47 PM

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Your number 2 of unbalancing the economy is jedi-doodie. Another OLD arguement that holds no water in the current state of the game. There are sooo many other super-easy ways for other templates to get the oober lewt such as a low-to-mid level combat character AFKing at a thug spawn getting adhesive meshes and selling them for millions that that arguement is udder doodie. Not to mention spawn camping of the high-end content such as acklay. If you tried to AFK forage for the uber lewt you have 2 issues that make it a virtual improbability... 1: when you /forage the same area a half dozen times, "there is nothing in the area to forage" and 2: even if it didn't your pack would become quickly filled with garbage (similar problem to afk looting) but you at-least can get credits from almost all npcs you loot and xp, whereas with Ranger and /forage you will fill your pack with bait and crappy food (equivalent of rebel orders and CDEFs)

My issues?

1. The complete and utter ignorance of the playerbase from SOE


2. The complete and utter ignorance of the devs towards all the broken professions (not just Ranger)


3. The complete and utter lack of balls to step forward to really admit and get their butts working to FIX instead of breaking even more professions


4. The complete and utter stupidity to call this game Starwars Galaxies Online: An Empire Divided when it should have been called: Starwars Galaxies Online: Jedi - BH Wars or even Kotor 3

Ow and how to fix it?

1. Remove the game from SOE and pass it on to some real MMORPG developers


2. Return the license of use to LucasArts


3. Fire them


4. Rename the game.

Message Edited by Dariane_Kamutsovy on 08-04-2005 08:41 AM

Me? Back to normal?

In fact I'm not... I've been very polite in my previous post.

Must be because I see no changes whatsoever... and with 1 month left on my description, I've got not much going for caring anymore...

Sure.. CH gets a boost, but in the process DE's get another thumbs down due to the bugs shown in TC...

Still Ranger is borked, Musicians are dropping because of the increase of needed skills and nothing in return...

/sighs

Issue, since it's not a bug: Traps don't have a rotary timer.

Hey, Dariane's back to normal.

al-djinn'i

Master Ranger

OK, if I am going over old material atleast it will be in different words. Also I dont know if you want just issues, but I feel I ought to at least provide one solution to each problem...

Camo

ATM I find it completely useless. I was testing it out earlier, walking past Krayts and Kimos. They broke it every time. rangers were told that invisibility on the radar or actual invisibility was game breaking, and now two professions have it. This for me is a very big issue, not necessarily because i really want camo but because of the fact that an ability they told us was 100% impossible to implement and still keep the game balanced is now there.

As a master ofthe enviornment around me, I should be able to hide from both creatures and humanoids, including players. I shouldn't have to stay inside the Starport at Nym's when a Kimo is hanging aroundoutside. Since I cannot do this, it's an issue.

Tracking

With the current spawn system, tracking is nearly useless. with the spawn system you are pretty mcuh only seeing what is behind you, and with a radar at 512m you can usually spot any spawns like Kimo's or Krayts you are looking for.

I believe that tracking should be mcuh more interactive- after all, a whole skill tree is devoted to it. Perhaps lures using loot items obtainable by rangers only, who having hunted animals for years have aquired enough understanding of a creatures anatomy to find parts that others may consider uselss, can be made to attract a certain spawn to your area, THEN you have a quest-like tracking, which can be done on foot or on a creature mount. Thus isntead of randomly spending hours looking for stuff you can just invest a little time making lures and then track as it should be done.

Trapping

As it stands there is very little I have to say about this besides the fact that they just arent useful. The warmup with the animation is just way too long- by the time I can pop a PDart at an anvancing Krayt he usually has chewed my head off. The other traps arent useful enough to even bother crafting and throwing. And half the traps still seem liek they cannot do anythins since they cant get mind anymore. I would liek to see useful states which are visibly helpful in combat as well as some traps which perhaps snare or root players who walk into them- this would be great for old school Bestine Achorhead fights, but as BHs and other more PVP oriented professions may want that as well it would have to be thought out more fully.

Also, rescue... it just needs to be fixed.

Camping

Camps are useless. I never make one except when I want to show off the HTFB to a group. I'm all for modular camps on this.

General Concept

The idea of an SWGranger is supposed to be a master hunter and a master of the enviornment. Better tracking to actually seek out and find creatures rather than trust to luck is necessary to make it useful. We need to be better at killing creatures than anyone, with another combat profession we need to be great at killing critters- not so much that it makes others want to switch to it, but it should definitely be better than it is now. I have yet to solo a GDK since the PDart fix because without being able to snipe I can't get enough damage on the Kimo that he doesnt regen, and without a good snare (Pdart only last thirty seconds, and it takes a good eight seconds to throw it if not more), I get eaten up for the most part. Mods verses creatures as well as perhaps some high windup cooldown timer specials against certain creatures- mammals, reptiles and whatnot.

However I just think that above everythign else, even combat mods, we just need to focus on the ranger lifestyle- right now, I never use camo, camps, tracking, or traps. I use mask scent and I harvest really well. THAT is a real issue. The way to fix it?

Camo allows the ranger to move through any enviornment without leaving a trace of himself and with no chance of detection- onlyanother rangers track and site him in this covert state. He can strike at any moment, and while for mor einteligent humanoid creatures this will usually blow his cover (unless he is a trainer sniper of course ), creatures will usually be left in dumb confusion as to where he is.

The ranger, having lived in the wild longer than the city, can produce the best camps, which have uses ranging from mobile R&R healing centers to hunting blinds used to snipe at creatures that would be much to dangerous to get close to or risk detection.

The ranger, by now an expert on animal behavior second only to Creature Handlers, can track even the most elusive of animals, and if necessary lure them to his position.

After hunting in the wild and surviving only by wit and strong nerves, the ranger has learned the weaknesses of all his targets, and uses this knowledge to produce deadly traps. Having varying affects from disorienting a creature tomomentarily immobilizing it to scaring it away, they can be used in combat to out-think the creature and allow the ranger to unleash the deadly damage from hsi weapon. Also having learned animal behavior and of the anatomy of the creatures, the ranger can harvest valuable parts from targest such as glands and phermones to create lures specially designed to attract a certauin creature, and then using his camoflauge,tracking, campingand trapping skills can place a lure, wait in his hunting blind and at the opportune moment ambush the creature(s).

This integrates all of the skills into a single idea- to survive and be an efficient hunter. Things like forage are not mentioned because I actually typed this post in a space of about an hour while playing, but all the same I think our issues come down to this- none of our skills are useful.

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WornTraveler wrote:

Tracking

I believe that tracking should be mcuh more interactive- after all, a whole skill tree is devoted to it. Perhaps lures using loot items obtainable by rangers only, who having hunted animals for years have aquired enough understanding of a creatures anatomy to find parts that others may consider uselss, can be made to attract a certain spawn to your area, THEN you have a quest-like tracking, which can be done on foot or on a creature mount. Thus isntead of randomly spending hours looking for stuff you can just invest a little time making lures and then track as it should be done.

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Every time this idea or some variation of it pops up, I cringe. It does have some merit, and it would be kind of useful. However, I think it would help rangers far more than it would help Rangers. If something like this were implemented,we would just see a huge influx of uberleets making ranger alts for more efficient loot farming.

As forother big issues, I agree with what you and many others have said concerning camo and trapping. I haven't bothered with camo in months, and it used to be a big part of my game. But with most things conning grey, and aggro radius reduced to about 23m, what's the point? I can easily avoid combat without using any Ranger skills. And while I still use p-darts, and the occasional glow-wire (to pull, not because of the 'benefit' the trap grants), that's it. No other trap does something that seems to have an effect, or that can't be duplicated faster and more easily by a weapon special.

But my biggest issue is still the gating. I'm tired, tired, tired of being pvcreature only, especially when our restriction to being creature-oriented doesn't really give us any bonuses above and beyond nonRangers. When I hunt, it's the Ranger who harvests the creature after it's dead. But make no mistake, it's the bounty hunter that actually kills it. I use a p-dartif I find myself in over my head, but aside from that, my kills come from BH weapons, BH specials, BH defenses, BH combat mods. I'm a bounty hunter who hunts animals instead of people, and I happen to be able to skin the animals afterward.

I am a Ranger, yes, but not because of game mechanics.

al-djinn'i

Master Ranger

WornTraveler - This is exactly what I would like to see. Repair all the features that make up a Ranger lifestyle. Then improve upon them in ways like what you have suggested. This would establish Ranger as a unique profession that brings things to the game that other professions do not duplicate.

Foraging Revamp:

The focus that I would like to see forage headed in is to support traps and camps with new items that can either be optional or required components or powerups. I would also like to see foraging linked to Ranger and Scout only quests, to be discussed later.

• New Items:

1. Scrap Metal, perhaps an item that could increase the damage of some traps?


2. Foraged Stones, to throw at things (further below in the creature knowledge section.)


3. Animal Teeth, same thing with damage increase, but possibly a wounding ability


4. Animal Horns, knockdown effect? They could be quite heavy hehe.


5. Resilient Bark, increasing the range of a few traps, as it is lighter than bone?


6. Poisonous Residue, increase the amount of damage or grant a poison-duration effect on a trap?

• Alterations:

1. Increase the stack size of foraged fish bait with the increase of the foraging modifier.


2. Addalootableschematic, that can only be crafted by a Novice Chef, that can combine two foraged items into a single edible item. This item (which should be a bowl orperhapsa modification of the already-existant Cooking utensils schematic) would have the sum of both foraged items' enhancement bonusesand last for 20 minutes, with a filling of 15. The way it could work is adding an item like a Bowl or something, with a storage space of 2, that acts like a viewscreen printer or a datadisk repair kit. You deposit the first forageable item, then the second, and when the second is deposited into the container they are combined into a finished item deposited in the player's inventory. The bowl is not destroyed inthe process, though. This item should not have any bonus above 100, so it does not necessarily have the potential to directly compete with Chefs, Doctors or Smugglers, but it might need to be tweaked a bit. This is only necessary if foraged item stacking, as stated above, is not possible. I find this method would be more appealing, though.

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Creature Knowledge Revamp:

• Basic Changes

1. Restore creature knowledge to it's original information display.


2. Add features of Creature Knowledge information: Whether or not it is able to be trained as a mount, Every resource that the creature yields (some creatures I see only yield Avian meat according to the /examine info, and yes this was pre-CU, but they still were able to be harvested for Avian Bones,) whether or not they are within a radius of assist to another creature, what the regeneration rates of a creature are, and what the creature's landspeed is.

• Application Alterations

1. Allow Creature Knowledge to add to the To-Hit bonus against creatures, and allow the creature to-hit bonus to apply with all attacks, not just the "Default" ones.


2. Allow Creature Knowledge to provide a percentile bonus to avoiding a death-blow from creatures. Not a triple-incap, mind you, and this should not cap at 100% at Master.


3. Allow Creature Knowledge to apply a bonus to creature milking and egg harvesting, if it "won't fly" as a result of creature harvesting.

• /Rescue becomes Animal Manipulation

1. Box One: [Flush Out] If you have foraged stones in your inventory, this ability allows you to frighten small creatures, in a cone area in front of the user at a maximum range of 35 meters. This is meant to only affect "small" type creatures. This type is stated after harvesting a creature, in case it is an unfamiliar term to you. It is intended to split up a group of creatures, without initiating combat, to allow people to "pull" them individually and split up the creatures from their "area of assist."


2. Box Two: [Feign Weakness] Attracts aggresiveness of creatures engaged in combat with the target player. This ability can also be used against a target creature, causing them to stalk the user but without initiating combat after a period of time longer than normal (and yes, they do attack after stalking for a while. I think that these are the creatures that might be insta-breaking our camo and mask scent.


3. Box Three: [Frighten] This ability causes a non-=aggressive creature of medium or smaller size to run from the user. This enables a group to attack targets one at a time, and also causes a cone-area in which creatures affected will retreat from combat. Only creatures lower than the user's CL are affected (But I think a different type of check should be used. I am open to suggestions.)


4. Box Four: [Challenge the Pack Leader] One creature every 30 minutes may be challenged. This ability enables the Rangfer to enter into combat with a target creature, and prevents nearby creatures of the same species from initiating combat with the Ranger until the fight is finished with the creature targeted by this ability.

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Tracking Revamp:

• Basic Changes

1. Fix the separating function of /areatrack.


2. remove shuttleports from /areatrack information, as everyone can find a shuttleport.


3. Correct the issue of NPCs on Kashyyyk that render as unattackable (specifically Etyyy) not appearing on the radar or under /areatrack.


4. Display the results in an alphabetical order already!


5. Allow tracking on mounts and vehicles, but only while they are not moving.

• Usefulness Enhancements

1. Because the radar interfaceall but replaced /areatrack within 250 meters, because the radar can zoom out and the information can be displayed if you hover the pointer over the radar dot, we either need to be able to track over a farther distance, or the radar needs to be restricted. This skill does not need to be an extension of the basic user interface.


2. Reveal Factional Bases under /areatrack person information, not including the added structures on them including the turrets.


3. The /areatrack interface needs to show groups of creatures, separated somehow, so that the Ranger can determine how large of a group they are going to encounter.


4. Note on the /areatrack results which characters are concealed, if characters using force cloak or cover are included.

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Trapping Revamp:

• Basic Changes

1. Restore traps to their proper function.


2. Show the damage, range, proficiency, effect, and speed of traps on the trap itself. No more flavor text!


3. Show trapping modifier of user on the traps.


4. Because all but 2 traps in SWG can be found in the Scout trees, I believe we need more traps or more options during trap making.


5. Add a Trap throwing speed modifier to the Trapping skill tree, which would allow a 1.5 to 2.0 second throw speed at Master or Trapping 4, whichever is more acceptable.

• Crafting Changes

1. Allow experimentation on status effect duration, speed of fire, and quantity.


2. Allow the crafting stage to have optional components for the above proposed foragable items.


3. Allow a module and item to enable certain traps to be able to apply on NPC's instead of creatures, which should be the default target for traps in this system (creatures, that is.)


4. Allow the +13 experimentation points at Master Ranger for traps, +6 at Master Scout, +4 at Trapping 4 of Scout, and +0 at novice scout. Resource quality should count for traps, but the important stats should be Decay Resistance and Potential Energy, averaged together to equal the percentage on the resource quality indicator bar.


5. Give bonus to craft experimentation while in a HTFB, even if the station already has a bonus via an implanted crafting station through the modular system. This should be a bonus of +15, in addition to the station's existing modifier, and would hopefully work only on Scout / Ranger items to prevent exploitation of any sort.


6. Allow this list of already existant objects to be optional components in the modular design of trapping [Actually, it would be better to leave point #2 as it is without expanding. I will probably have another thread to detail what components already in existence can be used for.


7. In light of #4 under "Basic Fixes,"I suggest a "generic" trap schematic for both ground and thrown placement be made available to a Novice Ranger. This schematic would be molded into the Ranger's ideal trap, using the optional components, reasonable resource requirements as the base needs for each template individually, and to be able to experiment on the abilities that each component lends to the trap itself. (For example, I use Rancor Bile in this template, so I will be able to experiment on the strength or duration of the poison during that stage of crafting.)

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Camoflauge / ConcealmentRevamp:

• Basic Changes

1. Restore it to it's intended usefulness.


2. Do not break on creatures that would not attack someone without camoflauge!!!!!


3. Make the Camoflauge and Mask Scent modifier a percentage, because Owen has not received whether or not this is already the method used to determine the efficiency of camo or mask scent as of yet.

• Necessary Alterations

1. Box Two of the Camoflauge tree: Ifa creature attacks a concealed Ranger, as long as the camoflauge is still active, the creature should have a significant debuff in it's melee and ranged accuracy, but more ranged than melee as they should be able to smell us / hear us when we are close to them.


2. Make it work on creatures at least 10 levels above ours.


3. Give us the possibiliy to achieve radar and visual concealment (as the Jedi have with their force cloak.)

• Addition: Fog of War

1. This ability can only be used outside of an NPC city. It can be used in a player city or the wilderness.


2. When a Ranger has camoflauged every member of their group, if they are still within the group they can activate an ability via radar scrambler (crafted by droidsmiths of course) that removes his group members from the radar of their enemies, and / or their own group members (I would prefer this to hide the radar blips from enemies, but if the Devs don't think it could work like this and still be efficient then I will accept the alternative.)


3. This would give us usefulness in the GCW, of course, but it would also make us a necessary group member! This ability would not work on anyone within 15-25 meters of the player(s) in the group, and this ability could only be used if the Ranger is in the same group and has personally camoflauged their group members.


4. As soon as a group member steps within said distance of any creature / npc / player, their radar signal would return to the radar of the person who uncovered them, and if the uncoverer initiates an attack the group member's radar signal is completely visable.

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Creature Harvesting / Looting:

• Harvesting

1. Allow a harvesting bonus to increase the stack size of fish, fish chum, mollusks and crustaceans harvested.


2. Allow Ranger Harvesting to increase the stack size of eggs taken from a lair.


3. Alter the creature AI to have a check versus concealment if someone is taking eggs from a lair, but only if they restore the mask scent and camoflauge abilities to their intended level of usefulness.


4. Allow Ranger Harvesting to increase the amount of milk taken from a creature.

• Looting

1. Allow Harvesting Bonuses to apply to looting components from creatures. Not the stats of the items, but the chance of looting one and / or the size of the stack.


2. Allow Creature Knowledge to reveal what items can be looted from a creature, not what items will be looted from a creatuer (as that is impossible.)


3. Add items, similar to those found on Kashyyykian creatures, that serve as optional components to our traps, camps and camoflauge.

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Ranger / Scout specific Quests:

• Kashyyyk Quests for Rangers and Scouts to obtain schematics for the furniture of Wookie Civilizations. This is only for eye-candy.

1. Chairs


2. Tables


3. Containers? (Backpacks, possibly)


4. War Masks / Paint? (Paint could be applied by an Image Designer for additional Skin tatoos.)


5. Camp fire appearance module for camps, assuming we get our module approach.


6. Clothing? Perhaps we could obtain a schematic to give to artisans so that they can make new Wookie garments, or maybe they could be an animal hide cloak.

• Kashyyykian Rodian Hunters - The purpose of these quests is to appeal to any sense of overpowering our profession that the Devs might have by just "giving" these abilities to us, even though TH and Holocron fully support the Outdoorsman proposal.

1. Quest for a series of ground-placeable trap schematics that can be traded, and the quest can be redone. Once the schematic is learned (and can only be learned by a Master Scout,) it is a permanent schematic. The trapping experimentation modifiers for this trap should be contained within the Ranger tree of trapping, but allowa +10 to it's experimentationat Master Scout.


2. Permanent schematic for Rodian Hunter Camp Kit (with that cool stretched animal bone / hide combo as the roof!)


3. Learn the secret of modular camps? If they don't want us to have modular camps as a basic skill revamp, then maybe they would give it as a quest? Tradable schematic, Master Ranger required to learn it, can only be crated in groups of 10 (this is subject to popular opinion and discussions / alterations as well.)

• Animal Calls (Ranger and CH, perhaps Master Scout. This is not final, and is certainly open to discussion or suggestions.) [Revisions on this are still being considered. I will update it when I have completed the revisions.]

1. Dathomir - Predator-mimicry: A Nightsister asks you to kill a creature which has actually beentaking the lives of their precious Rancors. Kill it, and return with its tooth to receive the predator call, which will repel creatures outside of combat or cause them to retreatfrom combat. Retreat is new to me, but I believe I have never successfully damaged a retreating creature / npc yet.


2. Naboo - Prey-mimicry: A Gungan Kaadu-tamer asks you to kill the Plain Tusk Cats that claim the lives of their Kaadus. The Prey-Mimicry animal call would attract creatures, but cause them to initiate an attack against you if they successfully break your camoflauge or mask scent. In combat, it would act as /rescue, drawing creatures off of the players near you though instead of one player. It is also an option to have this effect only one creature, or act as a true rescue and apply to all creatures attacking the target player.


3. Endor - Companion Mimicry: The Ewok elder which you get this mission from will ask for you to milk an aggressive creature, which spawns as an enhanced or altered version of a creature already present. Return the milk to receive the animal call. It serves as a boost to camoflauge / mask scent success while remaining in close proximity to creatures in the area you used the animal call, and allows a higher yield of milk when obtaining it from a creature.


4. There is a warm-up timer of 5 seconds, and a cool down of 15 seconds. The companion call cannot be used in combat, but the Predator and Prey calls can be used in both combat and out of combat. The buff timer should be 10 to 15 minutes for some of these calls.


5. It must be equipped to use.


6. This has been reconsolidated into the creature knowledge section.

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Camping Revamp (And the survival aspects of the survival tree):

• Cloaking

1. Droidsmith-crafter parts, to the equivalent of a radar-scrambler.


2. Ranger-made "shrubbed" enclosement. Basically, it would replace a fencing around the camp with dense bushes.

• Crafting

1. Architect-made crafting station module, able to house any crafting station. Why we were assumed to know how to create a Weapon / Droid / General or Food / Chemical crafting station, I'll never know.


2. Architect-made factory station, to combine our already-made traps and camp kits into a single crate, with the numerical limitations that they already have when we create factory schematics to produce our own crates. This is similar to a recycler, in that we drag the items onto the station within our camp, and it would have an output hopper that would contain the crate of items we had just deposited.

• Eye-Candy and Main Components

1. Chair module


2. Table module


3. Roof module


4. Technical module (crafting)


5. Concealment module (2 of othem)


6. Creature-repulsion module!


7. Camp Light source module


8. Display Module (either strung-up fish or a stretched hide)


9. tent module

This is crafted into a single kit, and when the camp is disbanded it is reforemd into a kit in the owner's inventory. If the player wishes for a new camp, they must speak to the quest-giver for their task required.

• Survival Tree

1. Somewhere in the Survival Tree, there should be a Poison Recovery, Disease Recovery, and Bleed Recovery abilities.


2. These are in line with the Elite Combat Profession abilities Dizzy Recovery, Stunned Recovery, Knockdown Recovery, and others that I can't remember right now .


3. Our recovery abilities should have a long cool-down timer, though, so as not to step on the toes of the healers yet again. I still think sticking with a 30 minute timer is best.

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Master Rangers are elite hunters and should have the true creature killing skills of one. Master Rangers should be BETTER at Killing And Harvesting a creature then ANY OTHER combat profession. We have harvest but others can kill better than we can. If any profession can solo a said creature, a Master Ranger should be able to do it better. Track, lure, trap, and kill said creature better.

The hunting blind is also and excellent idea in the camping tree. Tree stands could be something else to add. Giving the ranger to-hit bonuses and defense bonuses.