Ranger Archive

Carbines for the WIN! This is the perfect weapon for rangers Fast, Low SAC, Knockdown, Snare and add P-darts to the mix ur one deadly solo hunting machine. I would recommend all rangers give this a try. Ancient Krayts or whatever have no chance.

Im not going to be another rifle clone...

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Rolfie wrote:
You do realize that having Ranger and Bounty Hunter with the exact prereqs means that player gets 14 more points to spend than another player, and the Jedi will scream until the cows come home resulting in a nerf to either Ranger or Bounty Hunter or both.

I just have this feeling they may have looked at this combination in a pre-design meeting and it went something like. Nah!! not going to happen.

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Mmm, not quite. Let's do the math on this one:

Assuming Ranger prereqs are changed to MM xxx4/S 4xxx...

MBH/MRanger = NovMM + NovScout + MM xxx4 + S 4xxx + Nov BH + Nov Ranger + 4 lines of BH + 4 lines of Ranger + Master BH + Master Ranger

15 + 15 + 14 + 14 + 6 + 6 + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 184

MRifle/MPistol = Nov MM + MM xxx4 +MM 4xxx +MM xxx4+ Nov Rifle + Nov Pistol + 4 lines of Rifle + 4 lines of Pistol + Master Rifle + Master Pistol

15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 + 6 + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 183

Because Ranger and BH draw from 2 starter profs, there's an extra 1 point that's thrown in there. So actually MBH/M Ranger would costmore SP, even if the pre-reqs were the same.

The same would hold true for any other combination of professions that draw from the same novice box.

Now if Ranger pre-reqs were changed toRanged Support IV and Trapping IVas some have suggested...

MBH/MRanger = Nov MM + Nov Scout + S x4xx +MM xxx4 + S 4xxx + Nov BH + Nov Ranger + 4 lines of BH + 4 lines of Ranger + Master BH + Master Ranger

15 + 15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 + 6 + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 198

That comes out to fifteen more skill points than a combo from the same starter box.

Hell, even with Carbs 4/Exp 4 (as the Devs have suggested) it comes out unfair for a MBH/MRanger...

MBH/MRanger = Nov MM + Nov Scout + MM xx4x + S 4xxx +MM xxx4 + Nov BH + Nov Ranger + 4 lines of BH + 4 lines of Ranger + Master BH + Master Ranger

15 + 15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 + 6 + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 198

Granted, the player would have the option of spending the rest of his SP on Carbineer (which he'd already have the prereqs for), but that wouldn't be fair if he'd rather use a rifle or pistol.

So if we're talking about SP requirements, Exploration/Ranged Support is the most equal.

Message Edited by SamousNemo on 09-30-2005 06:04 PM

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Kinshi wrote:
I think the problem with doing the desired combo is that certain templates could gain more free SP if the specific weapon is not used as a SP sink,


using the Scout 4000/Marksman 0004 model;

If a player was also a MBH, he would already have BOTH pre-reqs for Master Ranger (2 Elite PRofession masteries for the price of one leaving a lot more SP that could get tossed somewhere else. 14 SP to be exact on top of the additional 52 SP that would have been left over from a typical double combat mastery.

Of course having an extra 14 SP to kick around would not be balanced. Ranged Support IV is out of the question as a pre-req for this reason.

Now there is merit to having the Scout 0040/Marksman 0004 being the pre-req, considering trapping isnt a pre-req for any elite profs but Ranger.

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Thank you for explaining it to him. Its Scout 0400 for trapping btw.

I think the more important difference is that Master Pistoleers/Master Riflemen can't hunt players. This is a big enough deal that you can't just allow invisibility and player bounties and give out those extra skill points. Like I said previously I wouldn't be surprised if they make the pre-reqs for Ranger into Carbines and Trapping to further distance us from Bounty Hunters, and make it a tougher to combine the two.

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SeanBlader wrote:
I think the more important difference is that Master Pistoleers/Master Riflemen can't hunt players. This is a big enough deal that you can't just allow invisibility and player bounties and give out those extra skill points. Like I said previously I wouldn't be surprised if they make the pre-reqs for Ranger into Carbines and Trapping to further distance us from Bounty Hunters, and make it a tougher to combine the two.

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Kinshi wrote:
I think the problem with doing the desired combo is that certain templates could gain more free SP if the specific weapon is not used as a SP sink,


using the Scout 4000/Marksman 0004 model;

If a player was also a MBH, he would already have BOTH pre-reqs for Master Ranger (2 Elite PRofession masteries for the price of one leaving a lot more SP that could get tossed somewhere else. 14 SP to be exact on top of the additional 52 SP that would have been left over from a typical double combat mastery.

Of course having an extra 14 SP to kick around would not be balanced. Ranged Support IV is out of the question as a pre-req for this reason.

Now there is merit to having the Scout 0040/Marksman 0004 being the pre-req, considering trapping isnt a pre-req for any elite profs but Ranger.

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Again, no. Even with the exact same pre-reqs, a MBH/M Ranger would have one less SP than another dual mastery.

We can even add a third profession onto that. Let's use Carbineer for this example:

MBH/MRanger/Carb 444x= NovMM + NovScout + MM xxx4 + MM xx4x + S 4xxx + Nov Carb + Nov BH + Nov Ranger + 3 lines of Carbineer + 4 lines of BH + 4 lines of Ranger + Master BH + Master Ranger

15 + 15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 +6 + 6 + 3 (14) + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 246

MRifle/MPistol/Carb 444x= Nov MM + MM xxx4 +MM xx4x + MM 4xxx +MM xxx4+ Nov Carb + Nov Rifle + Nov Pistol + 3 lines of Carbineer + 4 lines of Rifle + 4 lines of Pistol + Master Rifle + Master Pistol

15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 3(14) + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 245

Am I missing something? Please, if I am point out where my math is incorrect.

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SeanBlader wrote:
I think the more important difference is that Master Pistoleers/Master Riflemen can't hunt players. This is a big enough deal that you can't just allow invisibility and player bounties and give out those extra skill points. Like I said previously I wouldn't be surprised if they make the pre-reqs for Ranger into Carbines and Trapping to further distance us from Bounty Hunters, and make it a tougher to combine the two.

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I don't know. Invisibility is a lot to trade in for mods and specials. Yeah, they'll have generic mods, but they might suck. They'll also have some debuffs etc with traps, but those might be limited to 32m.

I'd still rather see the same pre-reqs for Ranger as BH (which again, will actually cost one more SP than rifle/pistols) for those who might want that combo... but I'm thinking I'd lose too much from my current template.

why not 0440 scout as the pre reqs...

trapping and hunting lines... I realize that ranger is going more spec ops oriented but with the use of traps it's still an applicable tree as has been mentioned.... as as spec ops you know how to hunt... just because your pray is ppl and not animals doesn't mean your not hunting them....

Message Edited by Zimal on 10-01-2005 06:06 PM

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SamousNemo wrote:

Again, no. Even with the exact same pre-reqs, a MBH/M Ranger would have one less SP than another dual mastery.

We can even add a third profession onto that. Let's use Carbineer for this example:

MBH/MRanger/Carb 444x= NovMM + NovScout + MM xxx4 + MM xx4x + S 4xxx + Nov Carb + Nov BH + Nov Ranger + 3 lines of Carbineer + 4 lines of BH + 4 lines of Ranger + Master BH + Master Ranger

15 + 15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 +6 + 6 + 3 (14) + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 246

MRifle/MPistol/Carb 444x= Nov MM + MM xxx4 +MM xx4x + MM 4xxx +MM xxx4+ Nov Carb + Nov Rifle + Nov Pistol + 3 lines of Carbineer + 4 lines of Rifle + 4 lines of Pistol + Master Rifle + Master Pistol

15 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 3(14) + 4(14) + 4(14) + 1 + 1 = 245

Am I missing something? Please, if I am point out where my math is incorrect.

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Your math is fine, but the comparisons are still flawed nonetheless. People are most going to be concerned about BH/? combo's because BH is indeed the foundation of many FOTM templates. Instead of comparing BH/Ranger to Rifleman/Pistoleer you should be comparing BH/Ranger to BH/Pistoleer. Having the exact same prereqs between two professions is too unbalanced because it provides more bang for the buck for those particular professions in question. The best solution is RS4 and trapping4 because of the equal opportunity to all ranged professions.