Ranger Archive

This is a great idea. Here is my two cents.

The crit fails could be removed for this. Architects have them removed due to the amount of resources they use and if a Ranger is curing and tanning over 10k of meat, there should be no chance at all of a crit fail. That is a lot of meat and to have it poof is simply not right. I would love to see a bit more crafting depth in the Ranger profession and this would add to it I believe.

The idea to include this into camps is great! We have a crafting station for gods sake, why not put it to use? Of course that crafting station would have to be required to modify the meats otherwise we could just use any ol' crafting stations. Gives camps a use once more.

Again, this idea rocks and I would love to see it implemented.

Heheheh Squidwalker,

I have lost many dice throwing them across the room because they were tainted dice, only to find them years later when my dog finds it under the couch. My wife has yelled at me a few times for finding a 4 sided die unexpectedly while barefoot (oops )

I think that the critical fail issue is a valid one, however, I dont think that a critical fail really applies here. Like the architects and the massive amounts of resources we use..

What we do is scrape the hide removing excess hair, insects, parasites and cleaning it so that it will be hung and dried to tan the leather, I believe there is some oil in the process to help out (

this could be an added component

Insert resources into the crafting station and add 20 lubricating oil to produce the tanned hide

Heres an example:
Generic Hide
OQ: 500
SR: 500
DR: 500
Mal: 500

Master Ranger experiments on SR and OQ
Amazing Success:
OQ: 900
SR: 900
DR: 400
Mal: 400

Good Success
OQ: 800
SR: 800
DR: 300
Mal: 300

Success
OQ: 700
SR: 700
DR: 200
Mal: 200

Marginal Success
OQ: 600
SR: 600
DR: 100
Mal: 100

Critical Failure
OQ: 500
SR: 500
DR: 500
Mal: 500
(no change) and unable to re-experiment.

My thoughts

another possible solution to this occured to me while I was reading. I recently began the hologrind, merely a couple weeks ago and I have done a lot of hunting on dantooine. In my inexperience with looted item, I bought up a bunch of voritor lizard hide segments for armor. I thought wrongly that I could have an armorsmith craft these into a better suit of padded armor or composite, but was dismayed to discover that those hide segments only work for bone armor, and that voritor scales only work for ubese armor.

We need a way to make armor segments that are close to matching these looted items and can only be crafted by rangers. Or maybe allow rangers to craft a special enhancement that armorsmiths can add to the segments they create. This would provide a new source of income for rangers and would would be pretty cool.

This is amazing. Well thought out Draknev. I don't know that I liked the suggestion of removing the chance of having a critical failure, if for no other reason than I think the other crafting professions will raise too much of a stink. It's also just a plain old part of the game.

The large stacks are the only serious concern that I have, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives for this idea. I wonder what the Dev's will think?

Great job Draknev! I am really excited about this! I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much for this already!

Oh the old, "finding the four sided later in the dark" story. Ouch that always sucks. Makes you even madder at the die.

Anyway, I was talking a friend, who plays SWG, about this idea, the orginal, and the thoughts about possible DB issues. Our further thoughts lead to, why would enhancing the resources stats be a real DB problem beyond what they already do? I mean every item crafted in the game by every crafter is a different DB entry. Factory runs are the only time it doesn't take "another" DB entry. And what about smugglers and slicing? That is changing the stats on an item that had already established stats, that got changed on a percentage chance. Thus making a different DB item.

If an armorsmith makes 10 suites via a factory run so they all have the same SN for each peace and the exact same stats. Well, either a single smuggler, or different ones, matters not because it's all chance based, can slice every one of those peaces. And there isa chance that every single peace from every single suite can have different stats when all is done and sliced. How is this different then a ranger changing the stats on a stack of resources? It's not. So why can't we basically have what the smugglers have for organic resources?

On the issue of crit fails. Well if it is true that another profession has already had it turned off, the archetect, then I see no reason whey we can't for this. I do think it would suck greatly, and only gave my speach about chance being part of it, because I never thought the devs would turn it off. But if they did already, by all means, do it again when justified.

If you like this idea and you are not a programmer, go down to your local library and find a book on data structures. Read up on things like "static variables" until you understand why this can't be done from a technical standpoint. Atlernately, read this for the Short Short Version:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=39580&view=by_date_ascending&page=2

If you like this idea and you are a programmer, shame on you.

If you like this idea in either case, remember that resource harvesting is blue-collar work and should be the least important thing we do. Improving our ability to generate resources will not fix the class, though it may well break the economy.

If you still like this idea, realise it can't be done anyway because harvester managers will then complain about being able to refine their resources, too. Not gonna happen, close the hope chest on this one.

Message Edited by DFH on 04-07-2004 06:43 PM

Boy, DFH, I don't know how you kept your Master Ranger title *and* your wits about you for this long if you're that negative

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DFH wrote:
If you like this idea and you are not a programmer, go down to your local library and find a book on data structures. Read up on things like "static variables" until you understand why this can't be done from a technical standpoint. Atlernately, read this for the Short Short Version:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=ranger&message.id=39580&view=by_date_ascending&page=2

If you like this idea and you are a programmer, shame on you.

If you like this idea in either case, remember that resource harvesting is blue-collar work and should be the least important thing we do. Improving our ability to generate resources will not fix the class, though it may well break the economy.

If you still like this idea, realise it can't be done anyway because harvester managers will then complain about being able to refine their resources, too. Not gonna happen, close the hope chest on this one.

Message Edited by DFH on 04-07-2004 06:43 PM

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Not sure where the static variable point comes from.

All the fields for a resource except the quantity -- type, name, attributes -- are almost certainly static. (If they're not, they should be.) That means you can't just edit the (say) OQ of a resource -- you have to generate an entirely new resource type. Creating a new data type is a bigger deal than creating an instance of an already-extant data type, even one that has dynamic fields.

The output of the refining process can't be a crafted item, because the crafting process is looking to have objects of type Resource inputted. Even the UI for crafting is looking to have Resource objects put into the boxes for required resources. Depending on the particulars it might be possible for Demon Hackers From The Bowels of Heck to kludge in a routine that intercepts the Refined Resource objects before the crafting routines see them and makes them look like Resource objects, but a) I wouldn't bet on it, b) that's not the kind of thing you really want in big commercial software that has to be maintained, even though the game is probably full of that kind of code already, and c) it would still be a ton of work. Either way, it means database bloat, a lot of new code, too little benefit to the game and a good chance of screwing with game balance.

This one's a non-starter.

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DFH wrote:
Not sure where the static variable point comes from.

All the fields for a resource except the quantity -- type, name, attributes -- are almost certainly static. (If they're not, they should be.) That means you can't just edit the (say) OQ of a resource -- you have to generate an entirely new resource type. Creating a new data type is a bigger deal than creating an instance of an already-extant data type, even one that has dynamic fields.

The output of the refining process can't be a crafted item, because the crafting process is looking to have objects of type Resource inputted. Even the UI for crafting is looking to have Resource objects put into the boxes for required resources. Depending on the particulars it might be possible for Demon Hackers From The Bowels of Heck to kludge in a routine that intercepts the Refined Resource objects before the crafting routines see them and makes them look like Resource objects, but a) I wouldn't bet on it, b) that's not the kind of thing you really want in big commercial software that has to be maintained, even though the game is probably full of that kind of code already, and c) it would still be a ton of work. Either way, it means database bloat, a lot of new code, too little benefit to the game and a good chance of screwing with game balance.

This one's a non-starter.

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Code changes don't mean they can't do it. It just means they can't do it anytime soon. Making a new database entry for a resource will involve storing a few numbers. Yes, it would cause bloat. Yes, they probably took it out for that reason (if they ever had it...). But yes, they can do it. It is a possible idea. Whether or not they are willing to risk the extra database bloat is up to them.

As for crafting objects, they probably can't have a crafted object replacing a resource in the current system. They can change that if they want to, though. They might also be able to let us just have an enhancer craftable. They can do something here. They might not be able to do everything but there is nothing here that is entirely impossible. Difficult to do, yes. But possible. But a full vendor almost certainly takes up more space than a converted resource. So they must have plenty of database space now anyway. Although that seems to be more on the planetary servers whereas the resource probably needs to be on a global one. And might lead to lag like we have on Lok and Dantooine being present everywhere. While I agree that it is not an easy implementation, it is definately possible. Whether or not it is worth the trouble is another matter. If we give them a good enough reason (not just that it would be cool...), they might look into implementing it. I wouldn't kill the conversation purely for technical reasons, though.

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server

Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server