Ranger Archive

"Masters of the Wilderness"

Actually I prefer the "Master Outdoorsman" myself.

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FYI:

The phrase "ultimate creature hunter" is my own doing...

• The developers actually wording was Rangers are "creature" profession (which isn't even grammatically correct mind you )

Now I can definitely see bending the vision to be the Outdoorsman ideal...

• I believe we could pull that off with a bit of effort.

Squidwalker's post will definitely provide some ammunition for that battle.

"It could be argued that /conceal won't work against NPC's because they would have the same personal radar device that you have in the game to be able to see them."

Yes, those were my initial thoughts while trying to rationalize this change.

"I argue that our /conceal skill simply fools the radar into identifying us as something other than an attackable player."

What is being suggested here is a Friend or Foe Interference system...

• However. How such a complex and highly technical beast could be created from hides and bone is slightly beyond my understanding.

I can see this being possible if the developers were to change the resource requirements of the camo kits to include some metal and polymer (to produce the electronic goodies) in addition to the current requirements...

• Food for thought, while I keep reading

Without the benefits of being able to conceal from NPC or PC, for that matter, the skill is useless. My non-maskscent doctor hops onto his vehicle to lose agro. Currentlly, once the fight begins, neither conceal or maskscent makes a difference.

Besides it is not something we can sell for others to use. We have to be there to apply it and still it breaks way to often.

P.S. The addition of metal into the conceal kits could distort NPC and PC radar making it appear we are somewhere other than where they are looking

Something else to keep in mind about radar - jamming. A jammer doesn't necessarily have to be a part of the camo kit itself. It could simply be a 50cr cheapo electronic gizmo (which we don't actually buy or make, it's just assumed to be a standard part of our gear that we keep with us at all times or is even built into our own radar) that scrambles all radar in the area (except your own) forcing the NPCs to use their normal senses - which would be next to useless against our practical camo skills. I really want to be clear that I'm not suggesting actually implementing jamming, only offering it as a logical possibility for our camo skills still working on NPCs with radar. Sure, as soon as their radar goes on the fritz, they know something, probably hostile to them, is in the area, but how are they going to find me lying there covered in greasepaint with that big leafy bush stuck up my ass, when even the local creatures think I'm just part of the environment?

If I may have a hand in the "techy" bits for a moment

I always thought of the 'dar as a heartbeat monitor. The "trick" is IFF circuitry, which is mostly visual. Therfore, I do not think it inconcievable that the NPC would mistake us for natural wildlife instead of a being. The creature profession is taken, by CH. We should be something else, hunter and stealth masters. If we were a creature profession, where is our familiar? This is MMORPG in-the-box thinking for the "ranger" class and I don't think we should take it laying down.

When I think of the SW ranger I quite literally think of Rambo, Viet-cong, Army rangers, the Mountain Men of the American west... things like this. I do not think of Arragorn, D&D Rangers or Druids... this is the EQ model, and I get the feeling they are trying to push us in that direction.

I'm already thinking of dropping the trapping line. I'm not seeing a lot to make me keep the wayfaring line. I'm holding on a tad longer but I capped my skill points long ago and I am finding it hard to justify the full 140 points we use up. Throw us a bone here,

I really like this thread and think it's very productive, but I think a point needs to be made here. People seem to be talking about two different things - rationalizing how or why /conceal might work against NPCs, and trying to justify just havinga/conceal skill thatworks against NPCs. I like a lot of the ideas that people are throwing out as to the former argument, but shouldn't we really be concentrating on the latter argument? Maybe I'm wrong here.

Fred_Skinner, I'm starting to agree with you more and more. There just aren't enough good reasons to justify putting skill points into some of the Ranger branches. I've been sweating over skill points for a while now, and I'm inching closer and closer to dropping Ranger skills so I can pick up skills that really give some bang for the buck. Having /conceal work against NPCs is reason enough for me to keep that skill line. I really don't see how it's unbalancing when compared to other skills at similar levels. And if the vision of Ranger doesn't involve being able to sneak around in the wilds (a la U.S. Army Rangers or, better yet, experienced game hunters), then it is really not what I thought it was. Pretty camps and a bit of an increase in harvesting and creature to-hit are just not enough to justify the skill points.

(And to TheOriginalDarthVic - I have the same things happen to me. Of course those guys have usually been drinking. Yeehaw, Alabama!)

NRaas sorry to agrue with such a great community member on this, but as I said in my thread about the /conceal. The personal radar does not exist in the SW universe, PERIOD. Thus it can't be used as an argument here either way. It's a game device and nothing more.

Secondly I really don't ike your thought of adding the requirment of a resource we can't get for camo kits. Although with above statement, this is not needed, non the less, totally outragous. Camo flauging is entiring fooling the sence of smell, sight and sound. Most sight and smell with a camo kit, or more to the point a guille suite.

Thirdly, I don't care what vision they have for a ranger, as was said in Phoenix1050 thread, and several of our additions to it, there are some things that ALL RANGERS have in common, whether they are fantacy type, sci-fi type, StarTrek type, StarWars type, or Dr. Doolittle type. One of those common factors/abilities is able to stay and move about undected, in most any evironment, but especially in outdoors. All rangers of all types, you look it up, were adept at moving undected, and thus camoflauging themselves.

"The personal radar does not exist in the SW universe"

I agree, and I did read your previous rationalization on the subject.

• The Radar is simply a visual manifestation of various other "senses" that are not sufficiently defined by the medium we are using.

However...

• The ability to define Friend or Foe simply based on Hearing, Smell, Taste has not been adequately rationalized yet.

Clear that one up for me without the use of some form of high technology and I would be most grateful.

Well I can give that a stab...how about posturing, body language, that sort of thing? I can tell when a dog is a nice dog, and when it's a mean mother that I shouldn't be going anywhere near.

"how about posturing, body language, that sort of thing?"

Ok, that might work with animals who don't have the capacity to cloak their emotions...

• But what about humanoids?

Well I haven't had any problems rationalizing it the same way with humanoids. Desert Demons are like a bunch of evil thugs, with their beady little eyes andsneering and fingering their weapons.Ditto for the Maulers and Flails, except they're actually frothing at the mouth.Aggro force sensitives give me a bad feeling. Etc.

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NRaas wrote:

"The personal radar does not exist in the SW universe"

I agree, and I did read your previous rationalization on the subject.

• The Radar is simply a visual manifestation of various other "senses" that are not sufficiently defined by the medium we are using.

However...

• The ability to define Friend or Foe simply based on Hearing, Smell, Taste has not been adequately rationalized yet.

Clear that one up for me without the use of some form of high technology and I would be most grateful.

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• Whatever the "system" is we should be able to be "concealed" from it


• A Master Ranger is a wilderness expert, a space pirate is not. How could their senses be better than ours?

"Whatever the "system" is we should be able to be "concealed" from it"

I'm hip to that.