Ranger Archive

Yeah, higher skills get less benefit. Law of diminishing returns. Which I suppose can be justified (playing dev's advocated for a moment) by saying that your harvest is a percentage of the maximum you can get out of a creature. The closer you get to the maximum, the less each improvement really improves you.

Though I agree, I think it's silly. I would have probably thought about making the droids work like veghash, where a +20 droid would be like eating +20 veghash, stackable with veghash, but modules NOT stackable. But I suppose they wanted to make sure that we'd need a dedicated harvesting droid (or near to it) to move those more expensive Advanced droid chassis.

-V

---

Shaylin wrote:

Except that since you don't have to spend the skill points in Ranger you can put them into more combat skills allowing you to clear through animals much faster than a Ranger thus ending up harvesting more in the same amount of time.

Pretty much all this droid did was force us to spend the money on it to try and stay competitive in the harvest market, and slightly lessen the usefulness of our skill point investment. I really do think they could have implimented it a bit better.

Cressida

---

---

Volcun wrote:

I'm not so sure about that. I tried to call my lvl9 gurrek out at the ame time as my lvl1 med droid the other day and It wouldn't let me. I might be mistaken though, I'll recheck tonight.

---

I had two rancors (A BE CL 36 and a BE CL 59 that was only at 32 - still growing) with a total CL of 68and my CL 18 harvest droid out last night at the same time. Perhaps I should buy a new CL 18 combat droid and do a combat droid vs. harvest droid speed test next.

I know how much meat I get out of a gurk lair with and without the droid - next I'll have to see if the percent gain in harvesting outweighs the percent gain in killing speed with a good combat droid. Oh, drat. More testing.

-V

---

Veldcath wrote:

As for the droids, okay. So you have to spend money on it to stay competitive in the market. But the same thing could be said about Veghash. Was there this much of an upset in the forum when veghash came along? I think the droids are a tool. Not a perfect tool. Perhaps not implemented the best they could, but still just a tool. Take it how you will.

-V

---

I agree they are a tool that we can choose to use or not.... What I think the upset is stemming from is they are another tool that seems to close the gap between Scout and Ranger harvesting. Honestly why shouldn't a Master Ranger get the same percentage bonus that a Novice Scout get while using the same tool.

Are they really that afraid that then Rangers would be king of harvesting? Wasn't that what we were supposed to be?

I actually don't harvest animals for money... I only harvest for my family (Mom in Law is a Medic and Hubby is a BE). But I really hate to see what little distinction we have from scouts grow smaller instead of getting boosted. It just makes no sense to me that the droid bonus would decrease as your harvesting skill increases.

And yes, I know weshould wait and see if the further testing somehow proves otherwise... and I also have put in an order for one of my own so I can try it out. The Ranger community has become very apt at being able to take a beating and simply forge forward with a smile... I just wish we didn't have to.

Cressida

Like I said in another post, I would have had the droid modules be non-stackable and function JUST like veghash of the same rating (with the 'fetch' ability). But I'm not a Dev, so I don't get to decide how things work. I'm just trying to offer up another viewpoint. In fact, this is how the discussion went with my ranger friend.

When pull didn't require camps:

"Oh, woe is me. Nobody needs camps now. Docs can pull med droids anywhere, you can pull pets anywhere. I've been made worthless."

"But there's no droid for healing mind wounds. That still happens only in camps."

"Everyone will just wait to go to the cantina. I'm useless now. They took away my only real purpose."

Now with the droid:

"Oh, woe is me. Nobody needs me for hunting any more. They can just use the droids."

With his help, I confirm my harvest takes compared to his, without droid, with, without veghash, with. Percentage gains for different things.

"I don't want to use a droid. It's un-rangerly. But I have to if I want to 'keep ahead' of the non-rangers. Oh, woe is me, I've been made worthless. They took away my only real purpose."

"The trap droid could help you out too, you know."

"I don't even want to talk about it..."

I'm not saying that this doesn't cut into your speciality, because it DOES. But everyone is being so quick to jump on the negative - "Now anyone can harvest as much as we do." True until you use the same tools and regain your margin (or much of it at any rate.) And it's not even really true.

Like I said before, they ought to push the harvest takes of rangers farther ahead of everyone else. You're specialists and still get hit by the law of diminishing returns, which is just stupid. But I'm honestly a bit tired of seeing people decry something (and this happens in ALL forums, not just here) as the death of their profession before really examining it, trying it out, seeing what it can and can't do and how it really will affect the profession.

-V

Disclaimer: I've cried inwardly about the 'death of a profession'... I mean, I'm a Creature Handler. Recently a master. And reading all the posts about the nerf that happened before I even started... and getting bit by all the bugs, recent and otherwise...

Disclaimer 2: The conversations weren't exactly quoted, but that was the general sentiments being expressed.

---

Veldcath wrote:

It just comes down to whether or not you want to give in and join the people using the current tools. So really, the droid helps narrow the gap, but does not remove it - I can use the droid, but so can you. Without help, I can't harvest as much as you. With help, I can unless you get the same help, then you still outstrip me.

-V

---

Except that since you don't have to spend the skill points in Ranger you can put them into more combat skills allowing you to clear through animals much faster than a Ranger thus ending up harvesting more in the same amount of time.

Pretty much all this droid did was force us to spend the money on it to try and stay competitive in the harvest market, and slightly lessen the usefulness of our skill point investment. I really do think they could have implimented it a bit better.

Cressida

---

Veldcath wrote:

I'm not saying that this doesn't cut into your speciality, because it DOES. But everyone is being so quick to jump on the negative - "Now anyone can harvest as much as we do." True until you use the same tools and regain your margin (or much of it at any rate.) And it's not even really true.

Like I said before, they ought to push the harvest takes of rangers farther ahead of everyone else. You're specialists and still get hit by the law of diminishing returns, which is just stupid. But I'm honestly a bit tired of seeing people decry something (and this happens in ALL forums, not just here) as the death of their profession before really examining it, trying it out, seeing what it can and can't do and how it really will affect the profession.

-V

---

People here may be "quick" to be negative, but you have to realize it's not simply because of this one thing. This is like one more rasp pecking away at our already stagnant skill set. We're basically glorified Scouts, so anything that bridges the gap between what a Ranger can do and what a Scout can do isn't going to be appreciated (by the Rangers), *unless* it adds something to us that the Scout doesn't get. Does this do anything for us other than give a small boost to harvesting? Nope, and in fact as you so clearly pointed out it's less of a boost the higher you go until you get the least benefit to using it as a Master Ranger. It's also one more thing Rangers have to get if they want to remain competitive. What's not to be negative about it?

Now if they turned this around and gave a progressively larger harvesting increase for the droid based on character skill such that a Master Ranger well and truely could outharvest anyone and anything, then maybe we'd get some positive responses? I dunno, but to me just looking at the numbers it appears this, taken at face value, does nothing but penalize Master Rangers for being foolish enough to waste skill points on the profession. Eat some food, use a droid, and save the skill points for something else.

It'll be interesting to see how/if these droids get tweaked in the near future. It'll also be interesting to see how well they sell.

---

Ogo wrote:

---

Veldcath wrote:

I'm not saying that this doesn't cut into your speciality, because it DOES. But everyone is being so quick to jump on the negative - "Now anyone can harvest as much as we do." True until you use the same tools and regain your margin (or much of it at any rate.) And it's not even really true.

Like I said before, they ought to push the harvest takes of rangers farther ahead of everyone else. You're specialists and still get hit by the law of diminishing returns, which is just stupid. But I'm honestly a bit tired of seeing people decry something (and this happens in ALL forums, not just here) as the death of their profession before really examining it, trying it out, seeing what it can and can't do and how it really will affect the profession.

-V

---

People here may be "quick" to be negative, but you have to realize it's not simply because of this one thing. This is like one more rasp pecking away at our already stagnant skill set. We're basically glorified Scouts, so anything that bridges the gap between what a Ranger can do and what a Scout can do isn't going to be appreciated (by the Rangers), *unless* it adds something to us that the Scout doesn't get. Does this do anything for us other than give a small boost to harvesting? Nope, and in fact as you so clearly pointed out it's less of a boost the higher you go until you get the least benefit to using it as a Master Ranger. It's also one more thing Rangers have to get if they want to remain competitive. What's not to be negative about it?

Now if they turned this around and gave a progressively larger harvesting increase for the droid based on character skill such that a Master Ranger well and truely could outharvest anyone and anything, then maybe we'd get some positive responses? I dunno, but to me just looking at the numbers it appears this, taken at face value, does nothing but penalize Master Rangers for being foolish enough to waste skill points on the profession. Eat some food, use a droid, and save the skill points for something else.

It'll be interesting to see how/if these droids get tweaked in the near future. It'll also be interesting to see how well they sell.

---

The highlighted text makes a very good point. BUT...the droids are a non-issue to me. They do not replace Rangers (as you pointed out) but they really don't make a Scout harvest as well as a high level Ranger. I won't get much out of the harvesting boost and i don't want a droid tagging along, so I won't use one.

They arn't a non issue to me.

Anything that steath nerfs us again, even percentage wise, imo is a bad thing. I don't have a problem with the devs taking abilities away from us as long as it benefits the entire community as long as they replace those abilities with something else. They cannot continue to take our bread and butter away from us with any compensation. The Driods far better benefits scouts than master rangers and therefore are a bad thing for our profession.

I totally understand that were not going to get seen to for a while. Therefore, imo, the developers should really think in the interrim about the things that effect "classes" like us the most and endevour to stop steath nerfingthese"classes"unless said changes are going to happen. I can't count the number of steath nerfs we've had - intentional or unintentional as they have been. Imo its far too many.

If someone can out-harvest me (by very little at that) by using a droid and a food buff, it bothers me not at all. Why?

I don't have to pay for the food, nor the droid, nor the batteries for said droid. I harvest faster than the droid does. If I get a droid and the food buff, I increase the amount I harvest beyond that of which the scout could hope to obtain (or even a non-master ranger). In other words, this new droid does not cause me any concern. The argument that people are "doing more without spending the skill points" could be used against food buffs, doctor buffs and in loot SEA's, so trying to use it against these new droids is not only useless, but unfounded. We still rule...

Ranger, giving away huge stacks of really crappy meat since Launch....