Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger as Explorer?
Mousekin
Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:04 pm
#14
Sneev wrote:
I think that the most common reason you see a lot of people interested in the "Killer" aspect, is simply that to accomplish anything in this game from a Ranger perspective involved being able to kill things as part of the process. You want to explore - its helpful to defend yourself effectively. You want to make camps - that takes resources. You want to hunt for resources - well needless to say you have to kill something to harvest it (and trying to harvest something that isn't dead should produce instant aggro to my mind, not just an error message).
Exploration is *definitely* the top of my list for elements that interest me in Ranger. PvP is on the absolute bottom of the list for elements in the game that are of interest. I just don't care about PvP at all. I did in DAOC, but not here. SWG has a massive universe with thousands of things to see and places to go, and the amount of exploration you can engage in is amazing.
I think Ranger as a profession should provide substantial Melee and Ranged Defenses but not Offensive Bonuses. I think we should be inherently tough, but the only offensive bonuses we might be due would be in Creature combat for hunting purposes.
What Sneev said!
I think the killing part is so focused on simply because it is nice to be 80th level, but with only 1/2 the combat skills of most 80 level toons.
Maybe you cannot focus as much on the exploration part - in the 'olden days' Rangers (and Scout) rocked. Now there are vehicles and there are much fewer reasons to even have terrain negotiation. To balance the novice scout getting a huge amount of hides/bones/meat compared to previously, Rangers get even MORE which honestly simply seems to have turned them into Harvest-o-matics.
A lot of the problems I see with Ranger are centered around the principle that the game has moved on, Ranger has not. Our camps are not redundant. They are obsolete. Very few of our specials (some traps, areatrack - to a degree, maskscent, camo) actively "work", especially in the game's environment of today.
So I've read several posts here and it seems we cannot even agree what a Ranger is. I say, great! Ranger should be what YOU want it to be, within some bounds. Those bounds being: it's not a direct PvP, crafting, or support class. It is perhaps an indirect class - in that you help other's harvesting in a group, you can track for the group, you add a body to a group. To my mind those are very tenuous reasons to class it among "support".
My vision of the Ranger is as Explorer. Yes, any toon can explore, but none are or should be as simply GOOD at it, as a Ranger. Hunters do not typically stalk game by blasting through the bush on their speeders.
One thing about Ranger that I've been thinking about as well. People talk about it being creature centric. However, the truly creature centric class would be Creature Handler. In most games I have seen, in fact, the Creature Handler IS the Ranger. If you look at D&D, the Ranger gets his familiar and other 'specials' associated with animals. This is possibly the first game I've played where there was a Ranger even. I dunno about WoW so I won't comment, I'm just saying... Rangers and Creature Handlers in SWGmight be said to'split' the whole Ranger template between them. Perhaps that, coupled with a degree of obsolence,is one reason we seem incomplete at present. At least that's one way of looking at it.
I would very much hope to see camps become useful - to US if no one else, what with everyone too shy to stop and smell the roses now. I would like to have more reasons to explore (quests, without vehicles/mounts in difficult to reach places, or simply more easter eggs without bleedin "badges" and "point of interest" waypoints, something to add to the joy of discovering a new area). I would like to be a little tougher against creatures, after all who, besides creature handlers, really knows wild beasts best? I spend little enough time around "people" to really know what is the best place to hit em anyway, why should I be better than any other combat character. I know my way around the right end of my weapon and if that's not enough well that's why there's this nice patch of green grass and a good bit of camo...
So I guess to wrap it up, my thoughts are pretty much: Exploration. Movement (stealth and quickness). Knowledge of creatures (defense vs creatures). Temporary housing - hey I'm on the move a lot, but give me the courtesy of suggesting I have a brain and can make a fairly durable structure in rough terrain. Specials that work (forget mission terminals, how about areatrack spawning mobs since that seems to be the only way SWG can do it).
Temujin23
Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:32 pm
#15
Sneev wrote:
Arawaen wrote:
I found a second oasis on Tatooine the other day, I had thought there was only one. There might even be more I suppose.
I know of the oasis by the Imperial Installation (NW of map), and the Crater oasis (E side of map) (got a cabin on one of the two buildable spots there). Are these the two you mean, or is there another as well?
I know of two, and I've heard that there are two more.
al-djinn'i
Master Ranger
raziviWH
Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:17 pm
#16
As the old saying goes, "Ranger is not a profession, it is a way of life." You could be a MBH/MCM and still be a ranger, imo. Ranger is exploring and beign a survivalist. A Ranger's worth is not shown in his/her pvp ranking, how many credits he/she has, what 'uber' loot/equipment he/she has. Their worth is shown through what they know about the game besides the jedi grind, GCW, and pvp. A ranger's worth is not measured in material things or kill counts. It is measured in world experience.
The changes most rangers are asking for is not to make us better at pvp, not better at the GCW, or even better at getting FS exp. These changes are asked for to make us better at what we are, explorers and survivalists. We ask that our traps work (I'm torn on the work on npc part). We ask that we get better defensive modifiers (offensive mods I'm also torn on). We ask that mask scent and camo are revamp to work with the new AI system. We are, for the most part asking to be rangers again.
I respect those like me, rangers, who value what badges a person has over what armor/weapon they are sporting. That is the ranger community. I value my hunting trophies, the expansion ones and those found elsewhere, over my armor and carbines. I value my sarlacc bile over my AV 21 schematics. I value my master explorer badge over my vette badges. This is what a ranger is to me.
On a side note: Lok's volcano. What gives? Sarlacc POIs give you a disease dot for being near them but you don't get a fire dot from walking on lava? Hey Calc, suggest a fire dot for lava, in-game lava and the new stuff with the jedi expansion, will you please?
Raz-
Almagill
Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:16 am
#17
Phenix1050 wrote:Exploring, like socializing, is more about the person than the profession. On wanderhome, I have a short little Bothan who's my RPing "cantina rat". All I do is go around, talk to entertainers and push spice. He's my social toon, and I have zero entertainer skills. Exploring is the same way. I can be an explorer as an Entertainer (though I might get munched).
Yup, during Wookie Life Day and the Empire Day 'celebrations' I had great fun taking my very definitely non-combat toons to Endor and Yavin. It was scary, it was time consuming, it was... adventurous. And it was also a blast taking them out to the different POIs to get badged up when their most damaging 'special' was a withering look.
Wouldn't want to do it every day tho. (Tho turning up at the Blueleaf with a CL1 artisan was worth the effort, just so I could turn down the group offers from the CL80 uber-types. Confused the heck out of them when I said I had 'skills they'd never understand.. and wandered back into the bush)
Now, how to get 'explorer' content. Well, beyond the badges, I guess one option would be quests that require the player to go to particular areas, enter buildings there or talk to NPC's (or after ToOW summon up a blue glowy..) and to do so have to negotiate their way through different hazards. Of course, that all goes out the window when folk can just team up with a high end char, jump on their bikes and blast across the landscape. KoTH style timers maybe? Dunno...
Almagill
Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:20 am
#18
Phenix1050 wrote:
three bodies of water on Tat that I know about.
Theres four
I'm off to get screenies this afternoon. All this talk of exploration's made me sentimental.
Almagill
Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:28 am
#19
Exploring stuff...
I found an old ruined 'castle' thing on Tatooine, and some concrete structures that look like an abandoned factory. There's some bases sunk in the sand near Espa and an underground 'town' thats a load of the round style houses... can't get in there, or can you.
Bridges and wreckage on Corellia. That weird trackway on Dantooine, that's good for just following and seeing what you see. Farms on Naboo, gungan temples and ruins. I've got a note of 'some weird caves' on Lok that I found one afternoon, just wandering about. Going to go back and explore them again sometime, see if anythings appeared..
Jedi shrines, they're everywhere and, unless you go look up the coords on the FS and jedi boards, it's sort of fun to go looking for them.
And then there's just walking up the side of a hill and finding a valley with snow, conifers and the sun slipping off the hill...
you can't beat that.
I found an old ruined 'castle' thing on Tatooine, and some concrete structures that look like an abandoned factory. There's some bases sunk in the sand near Espa and an underground 'town' thats a load of the round style houses... can't get in there, or can you.
Bridges and wreckage on Corellia. That weird trackway on Dantooine, that's good for just following and seeing what you see. Farms on Naboo, gungan temples and ruins. I've got a note of 'some weird caves' on Lok that I found one afternoon, just wandering about. Going to go back and explore them again sometime, see if anythings appeared..
Jedi shrines, they're everywhere and, unless you go look up the coords on the FS and jedi boards, it's sort of fun to go looking for them.
And then there's just walking up the side of a hill and finding a valley with snow, conifers and the sun slipping off the hill...
you can't beat that.
Daetori
Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:15 am
#20
Memories... *sniff*
Almagill wrote:
Exploring stuff...
I found an old ruined 'castle' thing on Tatooine, and some concrete structures that look like an abandoned factory. There's some bases sunk in the sand near Espa and an underground 'town' thats a load of the round style houses... can't get in there, or can you.
Bridges and wreckage on Corellia. That weird trackway on Dantooine, that's good for just following and seeing what you see. Farms on Naboo, gungan temples and ruins. I've got a note of 'some weird caves' on Lok that I found one afternoon, just wandering about. Going to go back and explore them again sometime, see if anythings appeared..
Jedi shrines, they're everywhere and, unless you go look up the coords on the FS and jedi boards, it's sort of fun to go looking for them.
And then there's just walking up the side of a hill and finding a valley with snow, conifers and the sun slipping off the hill...
you can't beat that.
I also have fond memories especially of just walking (or rather mounted on my trusty cu pa ) around Talus and finding some amazing locations: steep mountainways with snow, deep depths with caverns and grassland pathways surrounded by hills.
) around Talus and finding some amazing locations: steep mountainways with snow, deep depths with caverns and grassland pathways surrounded by hills.I used to create waypoints and screenshots for many of these locations and have been using them for RP events and gatherings.
And also my favourite title has been Explorer.
Athela
Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:44 am
#21
Long ago I told myself I would explore every inch of every planet. I am finally doing that, walking on foot from POI to POI on any planet I'm hunting. I think you see and appreciate how much care and design and little surprises are tucked all over much better on foot. You learn the terrain and wildlife much better as you trundle along. I am liking Endor the most these days for its lushness and the music it is so relaxing. I hope someday to be as knowledgeable from these travels as Unjor, Al-djinn'i, Cryos andReybekk (Naritus)for example are-they seem to know every animal on every planet and what can be harvested. They know the terrain everywhere, the names of every region. They are such willing guides for others and they share their skills and knowledge so readily. That is a ranger in my mind-explorer, guide, someone with expert knowledge of every planet. I can't think of another profession with these skills or knowledge of the game.
Atheren/Bria
AmeliaRose/Naritus
Bwookie
Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:22 am
#22
Ranger for me was about exploring.
My house (Be it small and humble) . Is in the swamps on theed and I refuse to ride anything but mounts. Yes it is a little slower but I got time. I hunt missions and raise mounts for other players as on the wookie planet you need a mount bad.
I go out and hunt for things like cupa and carrion spat as Biped are fastest and train them up and sell or give them away.
I lay a lot of my old hides and stuff around the house and dont worry about anything much.
I run to Moenia to do a mission or 2 and run them and then back to the wild to train a tame.
Ranger is explorer for me and fun at that.
Maxanto
Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:29 am
#23
Honestly... there is a finite amount of "exploring" that can be done in this game. Saying exploring is important to us would be severly limiting our functionality for this profession. I hope to all heck that is not where they go with us.
I feel rangers need to have a good mix of combat (outdoor combat) skills as well as survivle and exploration skills. We are rangers. We eat what we hunt, We sleep on rocks (at least calc and I do being dosh) and we can climb any mountain. Think about every other game, story or idea that ever involved the word "ranger" All are based as outdoors combatants... is harvesting meat important...sure it is, but you can not harvest what you can not kill.
I don't want to be "uber" I want to be even.
groundcrew
Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:11 am
#24
Panthu wrote:
So, I think we can all smell the Ranger changes that have to be right around the corner... I don't know what you guys are going to end up getting but I am curious to see how well it matches up with the Bartle Explorer goals.
Ent was supposed to be the solution for Socializers. Combat takes care of Killers and Achievers (I think crafting is for Achievers too personally). Only Ranger and to some extent CH and BE seem to be geared for Explorers though.
/agree I have a lot of respect for crafters. You guys really are the backbone of SWG.
How important is that part to the community in here? How important is the ability to go off solo traipsing through the wild into little traveled areas? Or is it more important to function as a combat utility/support class more like a woodsy version of SLs?
A big part of the reason im a Ranger / Bounty Hunter is thatI wanted to be self reliant. To an extent I have acheved my goal. The only players I needare crafters, and thats just fine with me. The exploring goes right along with that.I love being able to run into dangerousareas and not have to worry about getting attacked. Thanks to the fact that im a RangerI can go places and do things most players can't. How many Non-RangershaveHuged a livingKrayt Dragon?
Do you guys ever even talk about the "Explorer" angle? I've read most of the big proposals in here, I just can't remember ever seeing the Explorer thing talked about the same way we talk about the Social thing in the Ent forums.
I'm not actually sure that it is a good thing to have a prof defined by one playstyle's goals exclusively, it might be too limiting, but I am curious about the player attachment to the association in between Ranger and Explorer.
Great post.
AsI wrote in another thread. I want my Ranger to be like a Gun toating version of Strider fromLord of the Rings. I want in-depthknowlage of the wild,the ability to explore places other players can't survive in, and the ability to defend my self from almost any adversary.
If all crafters thinkI am is a glorified harvester then they can buy theorganics they need from someone else. I know whatI am andI love whatI do.I don't see them useing GDK or Gorax for target practice.
groundcrew
Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:13 am
#25
It couldn't have been put any better.
Almagill wrote:
One of the key things for all Rangers, the ranged, the melee, the critter molesters or the ninja trackers, is getting out their in the boonies and seeing the interesting bits and bobs the game has hidden away.
Exploring tends not to get mentioned much as it's one of the things we don't get any XP from and, other than adding to our badge collection, is something you tend to do 'for yourself'.
There's something really special about heading out alone into the desert on Endor, walking in all that bright flat sand and just 'being there', or heading up into the mountains on Talus looking for good snow and finding yourself in the very corner of the map where the invisible walls stop you wandering into that next valley... if you get there and feel your heart drop because you can't go any further, then you're an Explorer.
There's just no badge for that tho.
Mens_Rea
Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:15 pm
#26
I have played this game for over a year and a half and was a ranger once before - in title only - However, This time Iam taking the time to get the Exploration Badges and to seek out areas I have never seen before, quite honestly I am enjoying the exploration as I know that every time I log in it isn't going to be the same old "shoot till you get tired of grinding" that a lot of people on Farstar seem to bemainly interested in, but I know that I will go somewhere or do something that I have yet to do. Besides that it is always nice to take some of the newer players hunting and show them around, give them a glimpse of the planets and not just the few main cities on the server. I for one am enjoying playing as a Ranger, and I thankthose who through the guides and other posts on this forum, have shown me things I was doing wrong or introduced new Ideas.
So anyway back on topic, Yes I believe, that exploration is a very important part of Rangering.