Ranger Archive
Thread: Hybrid Elite Prerequisite Schema
MohdriDarkstar wrote:
Balrozgul.
You are wrong.
The idea that a profession requires an appropriate prereq in order to make use of any modifier is ridiculous. Im sure that most of us here remember when CM got TN in their trees, not sure if they still do or not but not from ranged support or from medic is TN even remotely suggested as a possibility.
Doctor grants melee and ranged defensive benefits, sure.
But it doesn't grant ranged accuracy or speed.
Im sure you intend to correct me if Im wrong but dont the doctors abilities go beyond merely healing and include things like improving your combat speed? And isn't that for all weapon types and not just ranged? Im not suggesting that we be given the same sort of "buffs," rather I am refuting the argument that just because a profession doesn't flow from marksman and brawler that it couldn't potentially be given support mods.
So, for your argument to follow, Ranger couldn't grant ranged accuracy or speed mods either.
See above in refutation, also note phenix's posts in which are noted numerous ways to achieve similar results to general speed and general accuracy. The idea that a pure scout profession cannot be given support abilities is ridiculous, and I have only to point at creature handler to emphasize that fact. True, they gain no modifiers at all, but what they are given does in fact more than make up for this apparent weakness, in a second (and third, fourth, fifth) ability to deal damage.
I agree, Trapping IV and Ranged Support IV seems the more viable alternative. I think Helios_SOE has alluded to before, though, that it was made Exploration IV to make it so Bounty Hunter could pick up certain stealth abilities.
I find the entire idea that BH's will be all over ranger to be a bit off base to begin with, granted we will have one of the best stealth's in the game but to be truly effective at it will mean a mastery, and a master ranger simply doesn't grant the same level as effectiveness for what a bounty hunter does as other support options, like combat medic. Our traps, even if we manage to convince the devs to make them all purpose, will never be allowed to be used in an urban environment, which is where a great many ambushes currently take place with regards to jedi/bh combat.
On a more direct note, the idea that they are proposing, carbs/exploration, is not a solid route to bounty hunters. Consider that in order to take up BH, a ranger will still have to train up ranged support to get to that position. In order to take up carbines he will have to make the same choice. In order for a ranger to take up any of rifles, pistols, or squad leader, however, he will have to spend two lines instead of one, 28 points instead of 14. Now look at the ranger proposal of Trapping4/RS4. In order to get to any of the following professions the ranger in this scenario will have to spend:
BH: 14 points, exploration
Pistoleer:14 points, pistols4
Carbineer: 14 points, carbines4
Rifleman:14 points, rifles4
Squad Leader: 14 points, survival4
Combat Medic: 29 points, novice medic/RH4
Commando: 29 points, novice brawler/UA4
Se la vi.
Indeed.
Message Edited by MohdriDarkstar on 09-30-2005 03:49 PM
MohdriDarkstar wrote:
Well that's getting rather fanciful, my friend.
Devs have already stated that there would be no specials for Ranger.
But, we are talking hypotheticals here. So why not entertain ideas,like ours,which may or may not have any sort of validity.
Yeah, a non-Jedi Enhancer class would sound kind of cool.
Squad Leader is sorta-kinda like that. In fact, what you are proposing would duplicate almost exactly what the Squad Leader is scheduled to become.
Message Edited by MohdriDarkstar on 09-30-2005 04:20 PM
Um, it's not a fanciful idea. I'm a rifleman. I have the AIM special. It's a short term self buff to accuracy. And tho I've never played TKM, I've heard about CoB and the benefits it gives to defense. So it's not impossible or unheard of for a non-Jedi profession to do things like this, in fact it's already in the game.
The Devs have stated that at this time, on a propsed revamp that's simply in DEVELOPMENT, they don't intend to include any specials for Ranger outside of the traps. If you read the big thread, you'll see there's actually quite a few questions and requests for clarification from many of us to the devs on this, since that plus the massive limitations placed on our traps would pretty much make it near impossible to play and use Ranger combat skills (which are largely pre-combat at this point) on large portions of most planets on many servers. Go on, ask the Smugglers how much of the stuff they were told about for slicing actually made it to live. 
I'm not sure I'd again be trying to make concrete statements and present hypothesis, conjecture and "at this time..." type statements made in an "In Dev" thread as factual, when in fact there are a HUGE number of pending questions and clarification that we need from Helios and others on the Dev team - and hopefully some healthy debate and discussion in there to.
TKM/Commando is a viable template and we'd be taking away from them.
Define viable
, without specials...it's a decent combo, but don't count on being a damage dealer (ironically).Anyways, not many of us were enthusiastic (your post in the commando forums was one of the reasons why I held that pre-req poll) about such an idea as the Commando Community generally sees the profession to be a guy who you don't really want to mess with. Pretty much a proficient all around warrior that is damaging & flexible in many scenarios/ranges. If all things went well in the CU...we would've lived up to that ideal.
Balrozgul.
You are wrong.
Doctor grants melee and ranged defensive benefits, sure.
But it doesn't grant ranged accuracy or speed.
So, for your argument to follow, Ranger couldn't grant ranged accuracy or speed mods either.
I agree, Trapping IV and Ranged Support IV seems the more viable alternative. I think Helios_SOE has alluded to before, though, that it was made Exploration IV to make it so Bounty Hunter could pick up certain stealth abilities.
Se la vi.
Message Edited by MohdriDarkstar on 09-30-2005 03:49 PM
MohdriDarkstar wrote:
Balrozgul.You are wrong.
Doctor grants melee and ranged defensive benefits, sure.But it doesn't grant ranged accuracy or speed.So, for your argument to follow, Ranger couldn't grant ranged accuracy or speed mods either.I agree, Trapping IV and Ranged Support IV seems the more viable alternative. I think Helios_SOE has alluded to before, though, that it was made Exploration IV to make it so Bounty Hunter could pick up certain stealth abilities.
Se la vi.
Never good to start off a post with a statement like "you are wrong". As I pointed out a while back, Rangers could theoretically be based off of a non-standard profession and be made very successful like that. Grant us ranged and melee defense, and allow Rangers to be the "enhancers" of the non-Jedi world. The Enhancer profession augments your abilities without speed modifers, but instead with specials. These speed modifiers ARE generic speed modifiers insofar as they work with both ranged and melee attacks. My suggestion was to have us have 2 main specials-- increased speed at the cost of accuracy, and highly powerful accuracy increase with a speed debuff. Thus a Ranger would not need speed or accuracy mods for ranged and melee, but instead could modify ANY combat profession.
Thus Bal isn't wrong per se, as there are elite non-marksman and non-brawler professions that give you defensive mods, and professions that can augment your speed and accuracy regardless of the weapons that you are holding. Ranger couldbe programmed to be just like that and it would not require static mods for both melee and ranged professions.