Ranger Archive
Thread: Why I Am Not An Outdoorsman
I am surprised at this whole conversation. When I thought about going into the ranger proffession, money was the last thing on my mind. Your entire arguement is based on the idea that rangers should be millionaires. They're outdoorsman! They shouldn't even need money at all. They go out in the wilderness and stay out for days on end making camps and traps from the things they harvest. Who ever promised that being a ranger would make you rich? If you want to be rich, then instead of complaining about how you don't make enough money, go out and be an artisan.
You seem so angry that you aren't raking in millions a day, but my point is this: if you're going to be a ranger, then why do you need all that money?
NRaas wrote:
What do you guys do with all the money anyways?
DFH wrote:
Reposted from the IC: Ranger thread.
How much you are being paid per unit of resource is immaterial to the question. That cost in resources will be passed along to the crafter's customers as part of the price of his goods. Thus I repeat the point in question: resource providers will never be as rich as the manufacturers they provide to, because economies simply don't work that way. If the crafter isn't adding value to the resources -- if he can't make a profit on his work -- he'll quit.
Not true. Not true at all. Want counter examples? Just look at the relative profits of miners and architects. Miners sell ore at 3cr/u - 5cr/u. This is standard, we all know this. What a lot of people don't understand however is that architects generally sell their goods priced at beteen 4cr/u - 5cr/u. For example, a heavy mineral harvester requires over 30k of materials, and at least on my server you can expect to pay between 125k-150k for such a harvester. Believe me, as one who has been both a miner and an architect, miners make a lot more money.
What's hurting rangers is not simply that they are a supplier rather than a manufacturer (that's silly). What's hurting them is that they play a fairly insignificant role in the harvesting of creature resources. The main supplier of resources, particularly hide, is all the joe combat stud guys with 2 master combat boxes and a little bit of scouting (or whatever they needed as a pre-req to their combat skills generally), who run missions forbig bucks, and fun, and could care less about selling what they harvest. The harvest is just a side-effect of the mission. They are simply going to dump whatever they harvest in the quickest,
They could care less about the harvest, they just take it because it's "free", and sell it in whatever way is quickest and easiest for them. For example I bought 25k of hide today for 30k from someone at the starport, and you can almost always find hide at 3cr/u on the bazar.
They have no clue about quality, or marketability, they simply are doing it to get mission payouts and have fun blowing up stuff so they just harvest (generally hide) off of whatever they are killing and sell it at 3cr/u on the bazar or on the streets, or whatever method is less painful to them.
Firstly, for most players, the harvesting of creature resources is just a side-effect of running missions for money. It's something they don't care much about, it just happens, so they sell it at 3cr/u without even having any clue about quality, desirability, or anything else. They could care less, because they just made 100k running those missions.
The second thing that's hurting rangers is that, well, quite frankly they aren't very good at hunting. Kind of ironic, but true. You compare a ranger with say one master combat box against a guy with two master combat boxes and hunting 3 or 4 who hunts with a few of his buddies
Firstly, they are quite frankly not very good at hunting. Joe combat stud with a couple of master combat boxes and hunting 4, who does missions to make money is quite likely to harvest a lot more than a ranger in the same amount of time, even though he could care less about the hide he's getting since he's making 10k or better/mission.
The thing that's hurting rangers is not just the fact that they are a supplier rather than a manufacturer (that's silly). What's hurting them is that they don't play a significant part in the supply chain. Your average joe combat guy with a couple of master combat boxes goes and runs 10k missions to make some dough, and have some fun. The fact that he happened to pull in 10k of hide while running those missions is immaterial to him, so he sells that for 3cr/unit. He's just happy because he just made 100k running missions. There are many many more of those folks then there are rangers, and even on a 1-1 basis they are probably pulling in more resources than rangers because they fight a hell of a lot better. So rangers are stuck.
DFH wrote:
Reposted from the IC: Ranger thread.
How much you are being paid per unit of resource is immaterial to the question. That cost in resources will be passed along to the crafter's customers as part of the price of his goods. Thus I repeat the point in question: resource providers will never be as rich as the manufacturers they provide to, because economies simply don't work that way. If the crafter isn't adding value to the resources -- if he can't make a profit on his work -- he'll quit.
Not true. Not true at all. Want counter examples? Just look at the relative profits of miners and architects. Miners sell ore at 3cr/u - 5cr/u. This is standard, we all know this. What a lot of people don't understand however is that architects generally sell their goods priced at beteen 4cr/u - 5cr/u. For example, a heavy mineral harvester requires over 30k of materials, and at least on my server you can expect to pay between 125k-150k for such a harvester. Believe me, as one who has been both a miner and an architect, miners make a lot more money. Also, if you look at the bio engineer/tailor relationship, very often the bio engineer (supplier) makes a lot more then the tailor for each sale of a bio engineered garment.
What's hurting rangers is not simply that they are a supplier rather than a manufacturer (that's silly). What's hurting them is that they play a fairly insignificant role in the harvesting of creature resources. Unlike miners, they don't control the supply. Unfortunately for rangers, the people that DO control the supply, are the joe combat stud guys who have two master combat boxes, have just enough scouting to fulfill whatever combat skills they have (often hunting 4), and go out running combat missions for fun and for profit. The fact that they happen to harvest some hide/meat/bone along the way is just icing on the cake, a free "throw-in" if you will, and so they price it accordingly. You can go to any bazar on my server and buy hide at 3cr/u. I saw someone at the starport today sell 25k of hide for 30k. Rangers, being fewer in number, and not pulling in even as much on a per player basis as these folks with better combat and less hunting skills, are simply not that big a player in the economy, by design it seems.
JawaJoey2 wrote:
If Ranger is to be a viable, valid career path with tangible benefits in SWG, it needs the military functions that the Outdoorsman proposal in particular and too many members of this forum in general are willing to discard.
I am surprised at this whole conversation. When I thought about going into the ranger proffession, money was the last thing on my mind. Your entire arguement is based on the idea that rangers should be millionaires. They're outdoorsman! They shouldn't even need money at all. They go out in the wilderness and stay out for days on end making camps and traps from the things they harvest. Who ever promised that being a ranger would make you rich? If you want to be rich, then instead of complaining about how you don't make enough money, go out and be an artisan.
You seem so angry that you aren't raking in millions a day, but my point is this: if you're going to be a ranger, then why do you need all that money?
I'd like to just comment on something quickly about the money aspects of this conversation.
They are irrelevant 
This thread started because I made a comment directly to DFH's post in the In Concept thread. As he's said, he's not in support of the Outdoorsman concept for a few reasons. The one reason I very much disagreed with him on was the element of making money, because one of two very easy ways to rake in millions is available to almost every player, regardless of their primary skill point assignments.
But the values of credits mentioned don't really matter. Honestly, all of the money I've made was done pretty much out of the 29 skill points that got me to Survey IV. Way later into my business did I invest another 9 skill points to get my own vendor (at Business III), but that resulted in being able to harvest more energy in the same amount of time, which in turn speeded my path towards burnout.
As an almost pure Ranger now, money means nothing. You only need what you want to live on. Comparing your bank account to others is just a quick trip towards irrelevant frustration. It's irrelevant if you have nothing to spend it on In large part that's because of my PA and my city. We provide cross services to eachother all the time. Weaponry and armor can be purchased or bartered. One thing I love about the way SWG's economy is set up is that it compels Player Missions all the time. Do I want a few crates of Tatooine Sunburns from my friend the Master Chef? Well, she needs Domesticated Meat for other recipes, so why don't I got out and get her a few thousand? Do I want to buy a new set of surpreme composite from my buddy the Armorsmith? They need some of that fantastic Nabooian Wooly Hide from this shift.
I much prefer bartering over straight purchases. Money is easy. Go find an unlimited resource contract, set up 4-8 mediums are heavies, buy some cheap power and let them churn until the shift is done. Empty, deliver and forget. Walk away with a few hundred thousand to live off for awhile.
But player missions are harder, and by extension more potentially rewarding. I'd rather help my friends out through services I enjoy providing than just paying them off.
DFH's original point was that Rangers can't make as much money as crafters, and that their economic contributions should be measured on that alone. I totally disagree. There's many ways to contribute to the economy that don't involve much in the way of skills, nor really involves much in the way of money.
The key is to like socializing. If you don't, then either adjust your expectations to not compare yourself to the multi-millionaires, adjust your template to farm high end mission terminals, or change the way you make money to something easier.
And I agree. Mission terminals must go from elite worlds. That's the faucet, and money is flowing in too fast from them. I imagine inflation is a problem across all servers at this point, specifically due to this.
Chris
turelsunstrider wrote:
50 to 70 cpu?!? I have trouble convincing people to take it for 35 cpu, and even then they think that I am getting the better deal here. IMO, Ranger should be either the only, or the best way for getting organic resouces and right now they are not. We should harvest atleast twice as much as a scout if not three times, because this is our main link to the enconomy so make it a noticeable one!
Have any of you tried selling on your galaxy's trade forum? Try this. Harvest a large (20k+ units) stack of high quality, in-demandresources. I'm talkingleathery or wooly hide withOQ and SR >900, herb or avianmeat with OQ and PE >900, or as good as you can find. Use swgcraft.com to identify the resource quality if you want to. After you are done harvesting, hold on to the stack. Resist the urge to go out and sell it right away. Wait until about 6-8 weeks after your uber meat or hide has shifted out, longer if you can. Post the stack on your galaxy trade forum as an auction. Describe the resource, including theunique name and all the stats. Start the bidding at 50 cpu (a little less if theresource is not uber-uber, maybe around 40)with a 48 hour deadline. Somebody will buy it. I've done this several times. It works.
Yes, the CPU is definitely a local phenomena. Don't get overly concerned if you see some folks selling for 70cpu what you can only sell for 30 or 40. 70cpu on a server where a +5 skill tape could go for 5mil is a proportional profit margin to a server where that same resource quality would be 40cpu and that same +5 skill tape 1mil. There's inflation game wide, but the levels are different.
And yes, definitely start with the Galaxy Trade Forums if you want to make more money.