Ranger Archive
Thread: Stirring up an old debate: Ranger Weapon
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Nemo0 wrote:
Personally, I prefer the modular trapping idea(don't necro it or it will be deleted and that would be bad).
Actually, necro's don't get deleted...only the post(s) that bumped it back into circulation. That allows it to re-sort based on it's old date. Even then, it need to be reported to be 'fixed' OR someone needs to spam a bunch of necros to get it 'fixed.'
Ummm....I swear I learned this on the Corr and forum and NOT through practice!
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:I COULD agree with that, if, BUT ONLY IF, some things were changed.
At this time, getting Master Ranger is almost as twice as much SP as getting 1 Elite Combat profession, yet we do not get anything special in return.
This is a situation that should be remedied.
Well of cause we should get our skill points worth of functionality, that is why we need a rewrap. And something like we are discussing here would most definitely fall under a rewrap. (devs wond have time for us before)
Phenix1050 wrote:As far as whether Rangers are a combat profession...look at what we have. We can inflict states, we can do damage (bone spurs do mind damage), we have accuracy modifiers (traps get more accurate with more skillpoints, plus the to-hit bonus), we have defenses. Basically, we have all the basic requiremets for a combat profession, but we don't have enough of them to be truly usefull in combat.
That just supports the idea that traps are our "weapon". But really we have as many defences and dancers, and you do not call them a combat profession do you?
All combat profession are somehow depended on either marksman or brawler, if we were to be considered a combat profession we would have to have one line of one of thoughts two trees as our prequest. Most likely the unarmed branch or the range support. One would remove the option of range based rangers, the other the option for melee based rangers. I do not like either choice.
Also if master ranger was to become a combat profession on par with say master rifleman (my combat profession ) then how would all our train negotiation and creature harvesting fit in? No other combat profession, have such modifiers? Would all combat profession get them? And if not, how could we expect to have thair level of combat skills.
Phenix1050 wrote:Those of you who read the CU info in the In Development forum will notice that doctors and medics are recieving changes in the CU, which makes them a core combat class. It is my personal opinion that Ranger is far more of a combat class than Doctor.
I respectfully disagree with you on that. A doctor will be using his healing skills in combat, or to fix the result of combat. Yes, we use our traps in combat, but none of our other skills are specific combat related, in fact some of our skills are used to avoid combat.
So I would say that Doctors are far more a combat profession then rangers.
Phenix1050 wrote:Point being, whether or not you view Ranger as a combat class, we're going to need to see a drop in our power after the CURB. This is simply an attempt to give Rangers a cool new toy that adds functionality and (my favorite word in terms of combat) TACTICS to the profession.
We do not need to have damage dealing tools as part of the ranger profession to use tactics, that is what the rest of our skill points are for.
As I said, I like you idea of the wrist mounted double crossbow, as just a trap launcher. It is the damage dealing darts I dislike.
I really think that any proposal we make including weapons will be shoved in to some archive folder with even being considered by the devs.
We choose to become rangers, and we use our remaining skill points to choose what kind of ranger we wad to be.
Temujin23 wrote:
Besides, how many times have you seen a commando on the trade forums desparately looking for a place to buy grenades in bulk?
Well the reason for that is that grenades and heavy weapons are the most time consuming and resource expensive items to make for a weaponsmith. And even if they make them they will never be able to charge know where near as much for grenades as they could if they used the resources on other weapons.
So mostly grenades are made by weaponsmiths who are still collecting all the necessary resources.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
I respectfully disagree with you on that. A doctor will be using his healing skills in combat, or to fix the result of combat. Yes, we use our traps in combat, but none of our other skills are specific combat related, in fact some of our skills are used to avoid combat.
So I would say that Doctors are far more a combat profession then rangers.
Traps are a FORCED combat action. meaning that you can't use them outside of combat and using them initiates combat. Healing can take place outside of combat, and doesn't force combat. As for the other skills-- just like healing is a passive combat special, so is mask scent and camoflauge. It is used to avoid combat. Avoidance is just as much a part of combat as anything else. How about /rescue? Using it can only be done in combat. Harvesting-- well, if you can show me a single time you harvested a live animal, I'll believe that has nothing to do with combat. As for camps-- they're used for healing-- which is a part of combat, according to you. So all four of our trees are intracately connected to combat.
Phenix1050 wrote:
Point being, whether or not you view Ranger as a combat class, we're going to need to see a drop in our power after the CURB. This is simply an attempt to give Rangers a cool new toy that adds functionality and (my favorite word in terms of combat) TACTICS to the profession.
We do not need to have damage dealing tools as part of the ranger profession to use tactics, that is what the rest of our skill points are for. after a master combat class a master ranger won't be able to pick up any medic or any other skills in the new system. We'll have 4 skill points left over. That's not much of a choice, compared to stackers. If you're a Ranged Ranger, you're useless up close. If you're a melee ranger, your ability to attack from far away to "pull" creatures is diminished. What this is attempting to give Rangers the same basic options as a stacker, but not neccesarily the same power.
As I said, I like you idea of the wrist mounted double crossbow, as just a trap launcher. It is the damage dealing darts I dislike. I understand that. But if they're not as powerful as a full combat class, then they're just used as an additional tactic. Example: a ranger wishes to trap a beast. But the know that attempting to do so will initiate combat without doing any damage directly. That's dangerous because the creature is tough and getting a head start on killing it is more important than the slight reduction to defense the creature gets when trapped. Solution: the dual launcher. The person can start doing damage while also attempting to trap,meaning a failed trap attempt won't mean death for the Ranger.
I really think that any proposal we make including weapons will be shoved in to some archive folder with even being considered by the devs.
I think that's a poor assumption.
We choose to become rangers, and we use our remaining skill points to choose what kind of ranger we wad to be. Well, I want to be a Ranger with a damage dealing doublecrossbow.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Weapons belong in the combat professions. Ranger should NOT be a perfectly self-contained profession. The skill point system of SWG is about making choices, a ranger who chooses to also master CH also choose to have fewer weapon skills.
If rangers got weapon certifications and the skills mod's to use them, it would negate that choice. Even if the weapons did low amounts of damage, compared to other weapon types.
That is why I am against damage dealing weapons for ranger. Nevertheless, am still for trap launchers, trapping could use some more advanced features for rangers. If a ranger wants to do range damage, they should pick up marksman, just a all other professions.
I COULD agree with that, if, BUT ONLY IF, some things were changed.
At this time, getting Master Ranger is almost as twice as much SP as getting 1 Elite Combat profession, yet we do not get anything special in return.
This is a situation that should be remedied.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
I'm having deja vu all over again!
FWIW, we got trap launcher already.
OK, I am done being a gloomy gus, please continue!
jk