Ranger Archive
Thread: Modular Camp V3...
Once again NRaas & the rest of the Ranger forum community has outdone themselves. This is really good work.
Once we're happy with this idea, I suggest NRaas take it to the other correspondents that are affected (like Squad Leader and Scout). That way with their support it's a "unified front" presenting it to the devs.
"I would start the optional Generic slots at Improved Camp Kit and leave the two first ones alone since they are just that: basic camps."
I don't see why the Ranger profession should reap all the benefits of this proposal though. We would be the only players able to create certain modules, and cutting out a potentially huge market of Scout crafters sounds rather incongruous.
"Not sure why we are proposing camps for another proffession here."
A proposal that is only half complete does not have the same weight as a fully thought out plan.
If this forum ever signs off on this proposal, it would fall on the Scout and Squad Leader professions to approve it as well.
That would have been the case if I had left the SL camps out, and then we would be unable to give them an idea as to how they fit into the plan.
"I see massive possibilities for exploit without further definition and explaination of costs."
Ok, we can define some costs associated with the modulesto get that point across, such as: Inexpensive, Expensive, Hugely Expensive
"I worry that the following crosses waay too far into the PvP realm which doesn't fit into the creature hunter vision or even the broader outdoorsman vision we are trying to get."
PvP takes place in the outdoors as well, so it has a place in a wilderness-centric ideal. But in order to follow the creature-centric design closer, the Ranger profession only receives modules related to Creature ability.
Now, if another profession provides the tools to increase the focus, I don't see a problem with that.
I mean, a Ranger's weapon profession doesn't shoot only creatures simply because it is held by a Ranger.
Nice to see some of the ideas from the other thread finding their way here. Nice synergy, NRaas!
A couple of areas that should probably be addressed though. First, the camp experience issue. Part of the problem associated with deploying the more advanced camps is that it puts the kabosh on other people getting exp, and those are typically the people either working the scout line for other professions or holo grinders. Would that be taken care of by the "Transfer" function?
Second
"a fortification is not a place to relax or heal, it is a combat position designed to coordinate fire."
Good, I will consider that.
"Not all modules should be able to be placed in all camps."
That is what I am attempting to do with the Levels and Types assigned to the slots and modules.
"For instance, because camps are rather open and and unguarded, you should not be able to place a module that provides a defensive bonus to the people within it."
Odd, that would be what the defensive bonus would do... Add a wall around the camp.
"they should not be as adept as camping as we are."
Yes, but as you said, they would be more adept at fortification.
"just make some modules incompatible with certain camps/fortifications."
That is really not a very fluid system. Being a software developer myself, it is not likely that such a system would be approved.
"Also, Bounty Hunters, DE, CH, chefs, and many other elite proffessions need to have modules as well, in my opinion."
Any suggestions?
"This is already an ability of the Ranger in his HTFB. Are we going to hand this off to the SL?"
Do you really think it fits in either the developer's re-envisioning of our profession?
The idea of it remaining as part of the camp in the future sound pretty nebulous.
"I think it's too much though."
Aye, now that I look back on it... I believe the softwaredeveloper portion of me has overextended itself here.
It is a glorious idea, but the very idea requires us to work with other professions to get it done.
And we all know how much the Ranger's enjoy inviting others into our forum and working with them. 
I whole-heartedly support this idea.
To the ranger community, keep those ideas coming each version looks better and better.
The scout vs. ranger issue. As we all know SL's and bounty hunters are the only other professions that require the camping tree to complete their training. I see nothing in the schematics that would make the BH or SL "infringe on the territory" of Rangers. Healing and Faction perks in a tent should be a great help to those in those professions, BH's want healing, let them rest in a medical camp, SL's want faction perks and defensive bonuses, great, they got them in their camps.
The main thing I was worried about is a BH with a camp that shoots (well, if the BH gets the fronteiring line, then more power to them)
Can you imagine how useful we will become if this becomes implemented?
NRaas, put my vote down for this...this is amazing
ARGH! Stupid interface! Sorry for the double post....
Second is the issue of "pheremone" camp. We certainly need the capability to make spawns occur in an area. There currently is no sense in setting a camp and just hoping that something will spawn. Could we include the "Mission Terminal" (Spawn Terminal?) as a module, one with the stipulation that there's no payout for mission. Could even have it so no waypoint is generated either, just the spawn. Then the rangers could use tracking to find the prey.
Lastly is the concern over PvP. I think you'd need to tie the turrets to faction points so that somebody couldn't deploy what amounts to a faction base without the need to pile up faction points first (was this implicit in the plan and I missed it?). I'm also concerned about using this feature to effectively lock out, surround, or grief POI's by having several rangers deploy in unison. While the idea of field fortifications seems appealing, I think that it should be somewhat difficult to do or it will be ripe for exploit.
For the fortification modules, perhaps add something where the camp "wears out" and requires a deposit of additional materials to keep it from disbanding. The dev's will want to see something that will consume resources (as they've said as much). A feature like this might help protect the camp from having a life that is too long.
Finally, I think that the Doctor and Vetinary modules should only be available to ranger camps. I see these as a high desireability item, and therefore ones getting the most use. There should be a distinct advantage to getting ranger skills, and that should mean that the default choice between scout and ranger version camps should go to the ranger.
"The main thing I was worried about is a BH with a camp that shoots"
That would be disturbing wouldn't it? 
Under this system, BH would not even need a line in camping... They could rely on the scouting camp schematics and purchase the squad leader modules to build their own encampments.
Interesting...
1) It make Rangers more useful and feared in the GCW and in the wild
2) I never had a problem with getting an invite as a master ranger, and now, this will make us almost essential
3) Scouts will no longer get the short end of the stick, (except for trapping) scout has always been more of a "means to an end" profession and now they can have some distinctiveness
4) Along with measuring troop strength and numbers by tracking, we can create a foward base that will be usefull to all professions
5) SL's have always needed something unique and usefull, this would really up their value
One question, would BE's create the pheromone that would be used in the camp module? If so and I missed it, sorry, I think that would be another pitch to get this going
"What would stop bands of griefers from roving the countryside and plopping down these camps next to players in the hopes of giving those players tefs and making them open to attack?"
That exploit is already available with the ability tosetup regular old covert detectors willy nilly.
Most likely a grace period would be required once a camp is formed giving everyone around some time to evacuate the area, or prepare for combat.
"it keeps people from cluttering the landscape with useless, permanent camps."
To fix this we can say the Ranger still owns the camp, and therefore can not make another one.
However, he is no longer the Tender, and doesn't have to remain in camp to keep it active.
"I suppose one solution would be to allow the camp to stay up for an infinite amount of time"
Did I give the impression that changing tenders would reset the duration of the camp? My apologies.
The camp would still disband within a given amount of time. The Tender simply allows the Ranger to join the group and wander off without risk of the expensive camps disbanding if he got too far away.
"How would decay effect them?"
That is a bug, and is noted in the SotP as such.
"what would happen to my camp if I were to die and have to clone? Would it auto disband, or would it stay up?"
It would disband because you got too far from it... Way way too far from it.
"Could I use the /changetender command while dead?"
No.
"would BE's create the pheromone that would be used in the camp module?"
There was a requirement that the Ranger profession be able to make a version of each item in the design, so the attractor item ended up as a Ranger item.
We could have them make a higher level version perhaps, for attracting even bigger game.
Interesting...
Any suggestions on how to make the Squad Leader camps more distinctive?
Right now I have them set up as the Mirror image of the Ranger camps, except instead of Creature slots, they have Humanoid slots.
I am thinking that the Combat Fortification module should probably not be a seperate component, but inherent within the combat related modules.