Ranger Archive
Thread: An idea to make foraging more useful
Kiryoku
Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:39 am
#14
ScorpioTiger wrote:
I'd support that idea. Go find some Athelas to get rid of that nasty poison you've just been hit with. Course the medics and docs might get upset about us muscling in on their skill sets.
Done! (i couldn't forage it... so i made my roommate get SWG)
been a long timeproponent of this idea, even back to the days of the herbal remedy (andbefore that,"snakebite kits," heh)... i think it is important that it be either usable on other people by a ranger, or usable by other people, preferably the former... the point being, it doesn't only serve to benefit us, as rangers...
i've heard a lot about not stepping on the doctors' toes... and, while i've always been the first to tread lightly in the past, i'm tired of this... the original plan behind the herbal remedy was to buff the resistance to poisons/disease, or to institute some mitigation at the least - we did this to avoid the curative use and the resulting peeved off doctors... of course, this got halted pretty fast when they gave doctors poison/disease resist buffs, and foraging remained unchanged...
everything i ever saw a use for in foraging has been taken by other professions, many times after we've already "called it"... so, let's not stomp directly on any feet... but if we walk on some, so be it...
some really good suggestions in this thread... taking what i like from some of them, if i had it my way:
foraging would have increased benefit as your skill increased - easiest way to do this is to treat it like a crafting profession: gain schematics that use foraged items... maybe have some of them use some added resources - generic creatures reasources (meat), and water... no need for experimentation value, but if they really wanted it wouldn't be hard to implement...
foraged goods can be applied to other players, but only when in a camp... effects include: weak to medium poison/disease/bleed cures, strong poison/disease/bleed mitigation (reduces damage and time of disease), increase heal modifier (gives a bonus of x4+to the camp's ability to heal this person'swounds), relaxants (allows a person to have BF cured by an entertainer, in the camp), and... well, that's all i got right now...
higher level forage craftables would require a specialized crafting station - the camp fire... using either a food/chem or a weapons/items crafting tool, you would get access to the complex forage schematics only when near the fire of a camp...
some changes like this might go a long way toward making foraging and camps useful again... mm, but i'm not real sure if even these changes are enough...
been a long time since i got into "suggestion mode"... hopesome of this isn'ttoo unwelcome...
DaveG
Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:50 am
#15
As for the stepping-on doctors toes, I think making the 'remedies' as a tradable food sorts out that problem. It gives the doctor the performance edge, but it still allows us to create something to make us more useful and self-sufficient.
velm
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:37 am
#16
I think it is a very viable idea. Right now, I only forage to cure my pets of wounds. I would rather save my stomach filling for chef foods than some of the foraged ones I can pick up. I have tried some of them just to be 'goofy' and they take up too much stomach space.
A ranger, to me, is a person who can enter the wilds and be totally self-sufficient. They should be able to forage for various useful items. Idealy,in interestingwould be for them to forage for components that could make a cure for poison just for them, or a disease that could work just for them. however, these compenents, could be used by anybody themselves.
For the sake of illustration:
Dath Poison 'weakening' scematic:
1 datwild onion
2 dath wild berries
1 dath Ulif leaf (or whatever)
When combined, it could either weaken the poison from 110 dam, to 55 dam, or reduce the duration, or when used by a Master Ranger, negate it all together for a Ranger. The components themselves, could all be useful to anybody.
This way, it came make foraging useful for something other than finding fishing bait, orfood toheal wounds of pets. While the foraged foodshould NOT compete for chef foods, it should still be useful. Maybe implement moreforaged foods,such as ones that could increase certain useful abilites, such as something that could increase camo by +5 for 5 minutes or, terrain negotiation by +10 for 4 minutes.
AragornSoS
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:28 am
#17
agent156 wrote:
Rowlyyk wrote:
C'mon people, I was expecting some constructive criticism/useful additions, not some mindless rabble.
Man Calc was charging up the BFG of foragy doom. I bet he is still trying to close some backroom deal with devs to have it Ninja Nerfed in to oblivion. Who would notice?
I for one would, and so would my Razor Cat. 
Have you ever SEENa Razor Cat get drunk on brandy meant for people? It's not a pretty sight...
DaveG
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:34 am
#18
Well that's okay, unless you can tell me otherwise, I dont' know of any chef's food that helps with poison or disease.
velm wrote:
... While the foraged foodshould NOT compete for chef foods, it should still be useful...
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:53 am
#19
DaveG wrote:Well that's okay, unless you can tell me otherwise, I dont' know of any chef's food that helps with poison or disease.
velm wrote:... While the foraged foodshould NOT compete for chef foods, it should still be useful...
OK, in a complete turnaround of my thinking...why the heck not. I still prefer we get innate poison and disease resistance, but if we can't get, and I am not saying whether or not we can (I just don't know), why not get it from a foragable item?
Iseult
Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:17 am
#20
JBMat wrote:Forage is another one of our skills that isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.In the beginnings of the game finding onions was ok, as they boosted your mind to let you use stim As and heal and maybe beat on a creature that would normally toast your butt. Now, who cares? Buffs have totally supplemented foraging.Finding a cure for a creature disease would be great. I hate getting the "clap" from rancors and being able to forage a cure would be awesome. We can ask and all the Devs can say is no.I also think we should be able to forage at sites of battles and find weapons, armor and other assorted things that would have been dropped or discarded.All I can say is we can see what the Dev's have up their sleeves besides their puny little wrists.JB
Hehe - too true. I've always thought that we should be able to forage stuff in the field to help with disease, poison, and stuff. Yes, it does step on the toes of doctors, but TKMs can meditate away their diseases, poisons, and wounds as well. Also, out camps heal wounds as well - so it is not unprecedented for us to have some healing ability overlap, even if our stuff is a lot worse than the stuff doctors and medics have.
Perhaps one way to appease the doctor/medic lobby would be to make the things that we forage only work in a camp (and have their success rate be tied to the healing ratio of a camp). This would mean that our stuff couldn't be used in combat -- you could only apply it after combat was over and in your camp. Maybe each application would decrease the potency of the poison or disease until it is gone. For example, if your camp has a .5 healing ratio, then it would take at least two applications of the foraged stuff to get rid of the disease / poison completely.
But back to JB's comment - does anyone else remember selling the onions on the bazaar back in the day. I was always excited to find one because I could sell an onion for 100 credits rather than the 25 that the other foraged stuff commanded. I remember that I used to tip doctors and medics with onions and they were actually happy to have them. Ahh, good times....
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Rifleperson
Bloodfin
velm
Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:41 am
#21
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
DaveG wrote:
Well that's okay, unless you can tell me otherwise, I dont' know of any chef's food that helps with poison or disease.
velm wrote:
... While the foraged foodshould NOT compete for chef foods, it should still be useful...
OK, in a complete turnaround of my thinking...why the heck not. I still prefer we get innate poison and disease resistance, but if we can't get, and I am not saying whether or not we can (I just don't know), why not get it from a foragable item?
Well, that part about competing for Chef's food was about some of the 'other' things we can forage for. I mean, I don't have a list of them, they have so many nice names after all, but I cannot see the justification for foraging an item that could be on par with a chef item. I would like to see foraged items, or combination items that could make aschematic for items to help with abilites.Like that terrain negotian, unfortunately, I see chef's already can make foods forcamo and trapping, not sure how up to date that list is (think it has not been updated in a while).Maybe make a foragedschematic that could allowa chance for aggroed creatures tohave a lesser chance of attacking the ranger should they break camo/masc scent.
I would limit the 'enhanced' foraged schematic to Master Ranger and justthat Ranger. The reason is that would encroach on the doc's ground. Otherwise, a Master Ranger could just forage for those items for a few days and make ton of cure disease/poison etc, etc, and sell his 'healing' services to people next to a medic/doc. Now, I could envision, a Ranger weakening the states for someone other than themselves. So, say, if a Ranger would normally be able to lessen poison to 55 dam to themselves, they could weaken it to 75 dam to somelse. That might not seem like a lot, but it can add up to quite a bit after a while. It is only a 35 pt difference in damage, but it is still something. While a Master Ranger would weaken it to 55 dam to somelse.
I really do think more can be done with foraging. It does not need to be overpowering in nature, but just more. Perhaps decrease how much space they take in the stomach so a person could take more of them.
DaveG
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:49 am
#22
The sticking point that this subject dances around is about how self-sufficient a ranger is meant to be. Similarly, TKM's are self sufficient in that they have meditation. Therefore, a MRTKM can already do (by different means) what we're talking about (albeit without foraging).
Nobody wants Ranger to become the next "ub3r l337", however, the whole idea of a ranger be that he/she is highly self sufficient in the wilderness (and by consequence is also an asset to a group). To use Owen's buzz word, that is one of the things that should make us unique, imho of course. How many agree?
Personally, I'm not so sure about being restricted to using such cures in a camp. If we can carry an edible item with us, I don't see why we can't eat it anywhere we like. I do however agree that we need careful restrictions on how this would be impilmented so that we are unique and not providing a redundant function.
How about instead, that the cures are craftable, from foraged items, and that they can only be crafted in a camp? The role-play idea being that it's something we make "out of the cooking pot".
Another issue occurs to me now. Should thesecures be only items we can use on ourselves (non-tradable), or things that we can give to other people? On first impressions, it seems reasonable that we can give these to other people so that they can eat and thus benefit from them too. However, this then sets off a new market, rangers can start selling "home remedies". This could arguably "step on the toes" of doctors.
The only trade-off I can think of, is that our cures will cause a small (how about 10%?) stomach filling. Therefore this sets up the balance;You can either drag a doctor along with you, and recieve cures that have no phsysiological penalties, OR you canobtain a ranger herbal cure which will fill some of your stomach (which clearly has logistical considerations when weighed against any chef bio-foods you may choose to use).
velm
Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:17 pm
#23
Now, I seriously doubt that Ranger will seen as that 'Uber leet' class. To get it, you have to become a MS, then finish up the Ranger tiers. Let's face it, most of the 'Dudes' out there would rather put their points in having a stacked PVP template or something other than Ranger.
There would definately have to be a balance between the foraged food and other professions, be it a Chef prof or a Doc prof. It it starts to get into their territory too much, they will complain. They will have every right to do so. It would take a certain amount of balancing to make foraging usefull.
I would be leaning on giving the majority of the benefits to the Ranger, that way MOST of the 'toe stepping' would be avoided. The Ranger is a self sufficient person, that does not mean those with him are just as self-sufficient. They would make mistakes, and be fool hardy (a little justification for stuff not working on them). As it stands now, the Ranger can do the following things for a group:
-Make a nice camp with crafting stations in it. Great possibilites for a group. I believe there is a healing bonus
-Tracking, players, NPC's, creatures. A very thing to have when looking for something specific.
-Mask Scent. Very nice to avoid some unnessary encounters
-Traps. Can be useful during battles with creatures.
-Harvesting bonus. Always a good thing to have.
-(oops forgot this one) Camo for self and others. (I know it does not stack with mask scent. Actually, I meant it instead of Mask Scent, but will leave MS up there anyway.)
The foraging, if limited to the full effects to the ranger, while increasing in effectiveness as the ranger rose in ranks, would keep the chef's/doc's mostly at bay, because it would only effect one person. Having a limited effect, while possibly taking stomach space on other people would not be so bad either. But the effects would have to have some limiting factors. I know, I would be screaming bloody murder if I was a Doc and found out a Ranger could prevent/cure disease on others. For himself, it would not matter, as there would not be any competition. A limited form, well, that is a bit of a shady area. I can see it and agree with it, in a limited form. Perhaps, take stomach space and made in a camp with a lesser time for disease, poison, or decreased strength.
I am not sure if I would rather have this 'schematic' as a tradable item or an item only they could use, akin to a stimpac that a medic can use.
Message Edited by velm on 03-16-2005 10:19 PM
Rowlyyk
Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:48 pm
#24
DaveG wrote:
agent156 wrote:
Man Calc was charging up the BFG of foragy doom. I bet he is still trying to close some backroom deal with devs to have it Ninja Nerfed in to oblivion. Who would notice?As foraging is now, probably not many people, that's not a reason to do away with it though. This thread is a case in point, that foraging could be integral to things that make us unique and useful; it's like lasers were about 30 years ago irl, an invention looking for an application !
Nice comparison, lol!
And I like the ideas people have come up with so far. Of course the changes would have to be made in a way that won't step on the doctors' toes, but a foraging really has the potential of becoming a useful skill. But to use it just for finding fishing bait just doesn't cut it...
DarkMagic05
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:53 pm
#25
i like this idea, especially if you could only use the items that cure the disease on yourself, should be a perk to being a ranger or scout.
Rowlyyk
Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:59 am
#26
Let me sum up the good ideas/strong points I have gotten from your posts.
Here's what I imagine:
- popup-window with a list of available goods to forage for (planet specific)
- planet-specific schematics for cures, using 3 different foraged goods (2 planets each tier and one at Master, just like the camo kits)
- cures only craftable AND usable in camps (with potency equal to the camp's healing modifier, for example)
- non-tradeable
- 100% potency (of camp's modifier) when used on self, 75% when used on others
Now, if we only could get this thread pointed out to any of our beloved Devs, I would be a happy Ranger!
Not only would this improve foraging A LOT, but also make camps a lot more useful. Furthermore, it wouldn't step on the doctors' toes AND make rangers a desireable profession to have in a group, when our medical friends prefer to stay in town for buffing...
Here's what I imagine:
- popup-window with a list of available goods to forage for (planet specific)
- planet-specific schematics for cures, using 3 different foraged goods (2 planets each tier and one at Master, just like the camo kits)
- cures only craftable AND usable in camps (with potency equal to the camp's healing modifier, for example)
- non-tradeable
- 100% potency (of camp's modifier) when used on self, 75% when used on others
Now, if we only could get this thread pointed out to any of our beloved Devs, I would be a happy Ranger!
Not only would this improve foraging A LOT, but also make camps a lot more useful. Furthermore, it wouldn't step on the doctors' toes AND make rangers a desireable profession to have in a group, when our medical friends prefer to stay in town for buffing...