Ranger Archive
Thread: Calc's Critical Analysis of the Ranger Profession.
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Nemo0
Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:44 pm
#14
Rancorrider4 wrote:
"I keep hearing rangers say this, and don't get it quite frankly. Calc, you are out hunting bats and flying creatures for very valuable avian meat, you look over your shoulder and see a combat stud/scout tearing up the lairs you are struggling with and getting twice as much as you. He is the true hunter, you are not. Would it really make any difference to you whether or not in addition to that awesome meat you were also getting some crappy 100 OQ bone that nobody would want anyway? Yea, it would be kinda nice, but so many rangers are pushing this like it would be some jewel in our crown or something and I just can't see it."
I do see it. Why if Ranger's can harvest more than anyone else, would we leave the remainder of the carcass to rot? At Master level there is NO reason we shouldn't be able to harvest all three resources. The quantities could become smaller as you harvest the remainder of the animal. Like Fred said, this would open up a bigger market for us.
Secondly, unrelated to the above post but related to another in this thread, I feel we should table any dicussion of true stealth until further notice. The Dev's have stated repeatedly that they are against stealth/invisibility. I really feel we should be concentrating on getting the Outdoorsman proposal addressed, and more specifically our concerns about camps.
Calc's notes on terrain negotiation are also right on the money. I'd like us to be able to trade that in for something more useful to us at this point. Vehicles pretty well did away with TN as a whole. Who walks anymore?
Respectfully,
First, I agree that we should be able to harvest everything.
Second, if we stop discussing stealth, we will never get it. The only way to convince the devs that it is a good idea is by giving them ways of making it work. If we give up then they will never even think about it again.
Third, I use terrain negotiation all the time. Admittedly, I usually use the scout TN more than the ranger TN (I only use the ranger TN on big creatures when they decide to move out of range of /concealshot. And by big I mean CL 100+). But, when I'm hunting, I run. I only use a speeder if I need to get to a specific spot quickly. I might end up with more resources if I just ran missions but I like exploring. And, for that, walking works best.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Stewwi
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:23 pm
#15
ppl it just popped in my mind
why not we forage food that works then cooking stuff on the campfire in the middle of the camp 
nothing as good as a chef of course but still would be fun
nothing as good as a chef of course but still would be fun
Fred_Skinner
Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:56 am
#16
All Righty then. Nailed my simmering discontent quite nicely. Not gonna speak for JB (I'm sure he will pop his head out soon 
) but I think you just channeled him .
Right now, probably in a hotfix, there needs to be a tweak to the harvesting pluses, pronto. I'd also like to see this harvesting all the resources, not just Meat, pdq. We can work on the rest later. Merchants are begging me now... it's not pretty.
Second, we get nerfed on /conceal and now camps???? You devs actually nerfed Rangers? WHAT ARE YOU GUYS SMOKING???!!?!?!? I say HTFB, FB and H-Q repel beasties for real. YESTERDAY. ( Hows that for angst? It's my Rifleman forum"voice" )
Ok, this is the scraping-the-chalkboard part . All the fancy camps, traps, do-dads, bells and whistles will but a few new rangers make. We will still be as popular as Dancers and ID, mark my words, even if we get all of the SotP but for one thing: Stealth. Think it carefully, don't make it a useless "paper tiger" but balanced AND true stealth even to PC and we will truely be worth 140 skill points. We have to sacrifice a battle template, might as well get something for that sacrifice.
. All the fancy camps, traps, do-dads, bells and whistles will but a few new rangers make. We will still be as popular as Dancers and ID, mark my words, even if we get all of the SotP but for one thing: Stealth. Think it carefully, don't make it a useless "paper tiger" but balanced AND true stealth even to PC and we will truely be worth 140 skill points. We have to sacrifice a battle template, might as well get something for that sacrifice.
AgonThalia
Thu Mar 18, 2004 11:24 am
#17
good job calc.
I would like the harvest all option personally, as Rancorrider suggested,
JBMat said he could only add not subtract to your idea...that goes for me as well.
I would like the harvest all option personally, as Rancorrider suggested,
JBMat said he could only add not subtract to your idea...that goes for me as well.
Lorell
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:03 pm
#18
I agree that Rangers really need some work and I think we've waited more patiently than everyone else. It's been months since we submitted our ten questions and we haven't gotten a response to that let alone our outdoorsman proposal. I understand that the Devs are busy with the Jedi revamp as well as the combat rebalance, but they could have at least responded to us. Hopefully, our new correspondent will help.
Novafix
Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:42 pm
#19
I agree totally, ourn traps are pathetic, our camps are now useless (aside from WOW factor) and our terrain negotiation is cancelled by the fact that we all ride vehicles. We have the ability to harvest a bit more than master scouts and that's it. We need something...
DND_Cas
Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:14 pm
#20
Second, if we stop discussing stealth, we will never get it. The only way to convince the devs that it is a good idea is by giving them ways of making it work. If we give up then they will never even think about it again.
/puts on fire resistant blanket
Excuse me for being the preverbial wiget from the "easy" to assemble screw set but....I don't see the point in stealth (perhaps one of you kind chaps could enlighten me ) We already have it for critters (maskscent) and unfortunately it brings up too many questions for npc GCW bases to give us full /camo abilities as originally planned (hence the reason they toned it down a bit).
) We already have it for critters (maskscent) and unfortunately it brings up too many questions for npc GCW bases to give us full /camo abilities as originally planned (hence the reason they toned it down a bit).I think our principle complaint is about wanting stealth is that were about as useful as a catflap in an elephant house in pvp which may or may not be rightly so as a non PvP class. I would certainly like a way for us to become useful in PvP. I think our most likely role would be recon which is why I think many of you are asking for stealth (i.e. the ability to sneak around and get intel for the group).However I'd rather have an RPG'd intel gathering ability than a"hey I'm behind you muahaha" ability. We sort of have one atm /areatrack but it goes nowhere near far enough imo.
What I'd like to see is a /gatherintel command whereby you get a maximum 1024 map of the immediate area on the screen and it shows you the various critters, npcs, base defences(turrets mine fields)and finally pc's that are in the area. Now your all gonna say well why not just bring up the map and see for yourself. Truth is I'd like the information that map doesn't give - such as the names of the pc's, the possible classes of those pc's, types of turrets & npc's, the hams of the turrets and npc'sand so on. I think the ability to see this would be a really big addition to PvP which at the moment lacks aany organisational tools. Perhaps they could even tie in the squad leader profession with a /recieveintel command who could then assign targets through the use of a command similar to /assist.
Pretty rough but I think you can see what I'm getting at.
DWolfe
Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:07 pm
#21
I'm not against stealth, but neither am I for it. I think the Outdoorsman proposal neatly balances it, and would be fine with it as proposed there.
I *do*, however, like your map idea, Cas. It needs to be batted around a bit and balanced out, but I like it.
Here's an idea that sort of merges the two for GCW concerns.
First you stealth up. Not true invisibility stealth.. but something that will allow you to move around an enemy base without getting your butt attacked by NPCs or PCs. Then you go to the base. You have a transmitter which allows you to send information that you "mark" (ie, examine) to a receiver unit which acts somewhat like the Ctrl-M map, except that the receiver has it on a GUI window, rather than a HUD view, and that it follows you, and allows them to click on "marked" elements to get what info you're capable of seeing.
When the transmitter sends updates, you risk being detected. This would call on your stealth rating, so the better you are, the less likely you are to be detected. Proximity to the enemy, or to enemy detection devices would modify this rating.
Eh. I dunno. It's an idea, and one that I like personally, but one that simply may not interest most, or be feasible from a dev point of view.
PithrenDarkstar
Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:26 pm
#22
"What I'd like to see is a /gatherintel command whereby you get a maximum 1024 map of the immediate area on the screen and it shows you the various critters, npcs, base defences(turrets mine fields)and finally pc's that are in the area. Now your all gonna say well why not just bring up the map and see for yourself. Truth is I'd like the information that map doesn't give - such as the names of the pc's, the possible classes of those pc's, types of turrets & npc's, the hams of the turrets and npc'sand so on. I think the ability to see this would be a really big addition to PvP which at the moment lacks aany organisational tools. Perhaps they could even tie in the squad leader profession with a /recieveintel command who could then assign targets through the use of a command similar to /assist."
Wow, one of the first really good, really original ideas I've heard in a long time.This could also work, rather than as a command, as something similar to the /examine window, where we just see more information on the regular map, rather than actively using the skill. Or maybe I'm just lazy 
RohmEnari
Thu Mar 18, 2004 9:49 pm
#23
Damn! Did someone light a fire under this communities a$$ or what!!! Good stuff so far guys. This is something that we have all been lacking for a while now. Some darn PASSION! We have an overabundance of patience, thats for sure, but we all needed this to get the ball rolling. As mature and patient as I like to think I am, I sure as heck don't think I am some monk sitting in a corner going, "Ohmmmmmm....Ohmmmmmm...." I'm not that content to just sit around and wait. I want action darn it! That having been said, lets get down to it.
I have asked, very politely I might add, for TH to give an update on the weekly roundtable discussion. And every single week I get zip, zero, nadda for a response. Now I am a paying customer darn it. If this were a restaurant and I was waiting for my food that I am paying good money for, I fully expect that server to keep me up to date on why my food is taking so long! And if he ignores me and doesn't keep me appraised of the situation only to bring my food out a half hour later, well....TOO LITTLE TOO LATE is all I gotta say about that! There is no excuse for not telling us where we stand in the grand scheme of things. Heck, I know that it is gonna be months down the road, I may be inclined to explore some other professions to see what else is out there. I will always come back to ranger, but I don't want to drop it just to find out that the next f'n day they are putting in a fix for them. And I have to say that I want to be MORE than just a meat gatherer. I am no caveman darn it. As it stands now we all might as well be running around grunting and throwing sticks at Krayts and Kimo's for all the good our traps do. How stupid is that I have nothing to do when a group of people want to take on a krayt, except for throw down a tent so they can all heal? You really think I am gonna get much thanks for that? NOOOOOO. Now I realize I am ranting, but so what. I have that right. I'm venting. I will try to compose myself........*sigh*......"Ohmmmmm........Ohmmmm.............awwwww TO H E L L WITH IT!!!
REVAMP RANGER!!!!!
Message Edited by RohmEnari on 03-19-2004 03:23 AM
Message Edited by RohmEnari on 03-19-2004 03:24 AM
DND_Cas
Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:33 am
#24
I *do*, however, like your map idea, Cas. It needs to be batted around a bit and balanced out, but I like it.
Thanks (to both of you)
Its very rough and I like your take on it as it could possibly involve driods and hence DE's as well. Interdependence is always good.
Sadly I agree anything like this is unlikely to get implemented and as were seeing we've got bigger concerns than this atm.
meschuster
Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:16 pm
#25
GoldMemberBria wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Then there is the whole "wasted resource" issue, i.e. why can't we harvest all resources off of each kill.
I keep hearing rangers say this, and don't get it quite frankly. Calc, you are out hunting bats and flying creatures for very valuable avian meat, you look over your shoulder and see a combat stud/scout tearing up the lairs you are struggling with and getting twice as much as you. He is the true hunter, you are not. Would it really make any difference to you whether or not in addition to that awesome meat you were also getting some crappy 100 OQ bone that nobody would want anyway? Yea, it would be kinda nice, but so many rangers are pushing this like it would be some jewel in our crown or something and I just can't see it.
This may be partially true, but if you are getting great quality meat and the hide sucks, a tailor who may need that hide cares less on the quality anyway. Tailors can't experiment on their clothing so quality does not matter on hides. And if two resources are good or one great and one average you can still sell it and many can still use it.
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