Ranger Archive
Thread: Ranger camp brainstorming
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
Well, when we get /track, I might lay off of mission terms in camps. Until then, why put all our eggs in one basket?
Phenix1050 wrote:
Vorpaks wrote:
I actually really like the idea of a mission terminal in a camp. This is an idea that has come up a lot. Mostly I'd love to just head out to an unpopulated corner of Dathomir or Dant or one of the other adventure planets (Kash?
actually, that's exacly why I don'tlike it. it's exactly like an idea that, in my opinion, is much more in tune with what a Ranger is. why settle for something that's already in the game (mission terminals) when we can ask for something unique and ultimately, more "Ranger-y"? And yes, the two do seem mutually exclusive. Why would they give us both?
Why wouldn't they? /track could be geared toward the game you can't get on a mission terminal. Just saying.
It just seems to me that mission terminals out in the field will:
- bring more credits into a system already flooded with them I covered this in my previous post
- decrease the money sink because you won't have to have your bike be destroyed going back to town FWIW, I drive my AV21 on every planet, admittedly, I don't travel to Dath that often, and I still have the one I got a week after the vette came out. I also have my original speederbike. I think most bike losses come from Nightsisters and PvP, which is relatively minimal.
- make Ranger a FOTM companion when grinding out a profession, and even more of an "alt" profession (imagine someone with a ranger alt set on auto-follow) If we ever get a useful skill (i.e. /track) this will happen. You have to choose between useful and FOTM or useless and undesirable.
- increase the liklihood of getting hassled. I covered this in my previous post.
there's no real benefit in my mind, unless you take away the credits, in which case, it's exactly like the idea for /track, except it's a worse interface than the one Owen proposedand it's not unique. so why settle for that when we can push the /track idea instead?
I kind of covered a less useful version of the mission terminals in my own personal ranger proposal thingymagig!
However, I do like the idea of the garage in a camp (might nick it for placement in my proposal!)
After the CU i dont think anyone will ever FOTM dabble in Ranger. Whats the point? you lose most of your combat capability and health for little or no benefit that you can already achieve to a good degree with Scout skills. Plus, the Master scout pre-requisite will put off most people from dabbling in Ranger!
And on the point of Alts. Not everyone has Alts, in fact, the majority of Players dont, they just have the one toon they use all the time to have fun in a game! Look at me, years in the game and I have one great character and 2 novices on 2 other galaxies I couldnt be bothered with!
You said it yourself, that the problem you say was a leet dude telling you to drop a camp. In this case, which do you prefer? /track which forces the leet dude to stay with you or a mission terminal that gets the leet dude out of your hair sooner?
Phenix1050 wrote:
and guys, enough with that "why ask for usefull abilities then complain that others might use them" line of thought. The point is that YOU think it's usefull.Clearly, I don't. So when I say "i don't like it", I'm saying "why should we ask for useLESS abilities that also will have us hounded by other players? Big difference. I simply don't think the benefits (increased mission turnaround) outweigh the negatives (increased credit flow, decreased credit sink, players demanding that we do something, non Rangery-ness, etc.)
Message Edited by Phenix1050 on 04-08-2005 01:29 PM
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
You said it yourself, that the problem you say was a leet dude telling you to drop a camp. In this case, which do you prefer? /track which forces the leet dude to stay with you or a mission terminal that gets the leet dude out of your hair sooner?
In all honesty? probably the former. as YOU said, there's always /addignore. Personally, I don't think I'll get as many requests to /track something as a I will to drop a camp for missions, because missions pay money. Plus, if someone bugs me, I'm going to go out of my way NOT to help them, so I wouldn't drop a camp to get them outta my hair. Think of how things work now-- it's well known that the more people there are in an area, and the slower you go (walking as opposed to driving) the more spawns there are in that area. But I never get asked to walk around with someone to up the spawn count. Why? Because what most people want isus to find specific creatures for Jedi OR they want misisons for XP and money. There's less benefit to outside people with /track, but just as much usefullness for the Ranger.
The l33t dude is only one of the many problem that I forsee with having mission terminals in a camp, though. Even barring how other people would treat me, I'd say that I don't like this idea.
Don't get me wrong, I will fight to the ends of the Earth for /track, but i don't see any issue with mission terminals.
Used to describe templates that are in vogue for a certain time period until they're superceded or recoded. Usually includes a level of attendant scorn at users of FOTM for switching templates on a monthly basis due to popularity.
'kay, mission terms in camps? Yes. Please. Only in the HTFB tho. After all, thats got the faction terminal already. Perhaps a lower payout from camp missions would address Phen's Phears of Phinancial, uhm, thing?
As for the worry about getting hassled by l33t grinder types? If I've got a camp out and the terminal is activated (thinking maybe modules here, some sort of Master level quest that gets the ability to put these in your camp???) then its "Hey, no problem bud, help yourself..". No camp out, or not activated, /addignore is your friend.
Am sort of between the modular camp idea and completley seperate camps, but I'd be happy if we got either I guess.
Phenix1050 wrote:i've re-read my posts and i've certainly come off as a raging jerk in this thread, which was never my intent.The ideas here show promise, and a lot of them aren't contained in the Outdoorsman. It would be very easy to add these ideas into that proposal, so don't feel that simply because I don't agree with the implementation that I toally think your ideas are useless. I truly do think that they show a lot of promise.I don't think that theres' a developer on this issue right now, so we can all feel free to discuss this as much as we want. However, when it does come time to do the revamp, i think having a proposal that everyone more or less agrees with (you'll never have 100% agreement) is the best plan. So hey, keep kicking around ideas and I'll keep putting my 2 cents in. If people like the idea of an ID camp and a "creature corral" it would be easy enough to put those ideas in the Outdoorsman proposal too.So, I'm gonna try and stop focusing on the things I don't like (since we all know what they are), and instead respond to the things I do. I like the idea of more camping options. I like the idea of Ranger being mingled with other professions and being a boon to them. I'm not sure about allowing a ranger to create an ID camp with no help from an ID, or buiding a creature corral with no help from a CH. That was the strength of the Modular Camping proposal,I thought-- interdependancy. But, if there's a way to require something from other professions with this idea, I'm all for it.Let's just put it this way: I don't dislike your ideas, really. It's just that I prefer other ideas. But if your ideas were implemented rather than modular camping, I'd probably still be happy.
I kicked it around in my head all afternoon, and I'm forced to agree that cross-class modules or at least required parts for camps is probably a better match for the game. The Dev's seem to like interdependency, so perhaps usurping other class' areas of influence would best be done if we bought parts from them to do so.
To tell you the truth, I don't really see a difference between modular additions to a single or two camp schematics, and multiple camp schematics. Modules would be easier to understand, certainly. I'm building a camp kit, I add the metal, the organics, and my 'optional' component which is a module... that's easy to understand. Probably as easy to code as the multiple-schematic idea, maybe easier.
Feel free to include any/all/none of my ideas in any proposals. I'm happy that you took the time to explain your point of view. You've obviously been kicking these ideas around longer than I have, and your input is both valuable and appreciated.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:I fail to see how this is any different than the modular camp ideas, but you poo poo this... Does this mean that modular camping is an idea that should be poo pooed (try saying that with a straight face
) or do y'all dislike this becuase it ISN'T the modular camp idea? I really like some of your ideas Frank (some are new and some are rehashes of previous ideas). I will just throw out a couple of bullet points with my comments:
- Healing camps. As far asI am concerned, the only way a camp will be viable for healing is if if gives the player city specialization healing bonus. As it stands droids are completely portable and heal better than a city hospital, so the next step up would be the level of the of the city specialization (or Bivoli).
- Mission terminals...heck yeah! I would disagree that they would have an effect on the economies. If the missions were like they are now, you would still have to travel to them and you would still have to kill them before you get paid. The only variable you remove is the trip back to the city to get more missions. I love this idea, and still hope we get a camp with a mission terminal.
- Creature Corral? Ugggg...I don't like the sound of that at all.
- Boy, oh boy. Y'all want to have a revamp that makes us more viable, but you don't want to have any skills that someone else doesn't want to utilize? You can't have it both ways. There will always be people that demand other profs use their skills for them and there will be those who ask nicely. If you say 'no' and someone continues to press it, they get the old addignore. If they continue to press you, the asshats get a /report. I can not and will not support anyone who wants us to have a revamp, but doesn't want us to have viable skills (i.e. skill that people will demand we use for them).
Thanks for the ideas Frank and don't let the initial reaction to your post discourage you, there are those of us out there that agree with you!
Thanks Calc. I mastered ranger during the holoron phase, and it's one of the two professions I've come back to after all was said and done. I love the concept, I love the possibilities, but let's face it; if you aren't tracking, and you aren't harvesting to support a doctor/chef crafter, you're basically SOL for useful conduct.
Mission terminals were only the smallest part of our brainstorming ideas. I wouldn't flinch for a second to see them pulled. Having said that, I think it'd be outstanding to take my group of 10 on a hunt in the wilds of Dathomir, be able to make money from missions and from sales, and be able to be 5k away from all the typical grinders and morons.
If mission terminals are too big a hit on the economy, we could try just the explorer mission terminals, because they're far more scout/ranger motif than 'go here and kill this'.
As for the Corral, my buddy's running up a CH to master right now, and he thought it'd be cool to have a mission that was like cattle herding. Can't say as I loved it myself, but as far as ideas go, I didn't see any compelling reason to bury it.
And finally, after re-reading the Outdoorsman proposal, I see that there's a great deal of overlap. I assure you I did not intend to steal any thunder from that proposal. I might have read it long ago, and some of the ideas stuck, or it might just be that we think along the same lines. I haven't seen any developer posts regarding a Ranger Revamp in a long time, and I have no present belief that any one idea is diverting developer attention. If it is the case that we have budgeted developer time, then by all means go with the oldest/strongest Ranger ideas for your Revamp.
JBMat wrote:Hey Frank
Side note - where you hiding Frank? We live in the same city and I haven't seen you in weeks?JB
I've been on daily, but I usually game in the AM EST, so if you're out west we'll rarely bump in to one another. Been working a swing shift too, so that screws up my game time. Also, been trying to get a few /bug reports in on TC5 lately, and get a little practice in before it goes Live.
We ought to sponsor a block party or something where NS and SWOOP can get together and drink heavily. And TP the town hall.
Phenix1050 wrote:
Vorpaks wrote:
I actually really like the idea of a mission terminal in a camp. This is an idea that has come up a lot. Mostly I'd love to just head out to an unpopulated corner of Dathomir or Dant or one of the other adventure planets (Kash?
actually, that's exacly why I don'tlike it. it's exactly like an idea that, in my opinion, is much more in tune with what a Ranger is. why settle for something that's already in the game (mission terminals) when we can ask for something unique and ultimately, more "Ranger-y"? And yes, the two do seem mutually exclusive. Why would they give us both?
It just seems to me that mission terminals out in the field will:
- bring more credits into a system already flooded with them
- decrease the money sink because you won't have to have your bike be destroyed going back to town
- make Ranger a FOTM companion when grinding out a profession, and even more of an "alt" profession (imagine someone with a ranger alt set on auto-follow)
- increase the liklihood of getting hassled.
there's no real benefit in my mind, unless you take away the credits, in which case, it's exactly like the idea for /track, except it's a worse interface than the one Owen proposedand it's not unique. so why settle for that when we can push the /track idea instead?
I agree. Especially about the money sink- the economy is already inflating. But wouldn't it be interesting to add fuel- imagine having to buy gas for your speeder :-D
But I have a question- what does FOTM stand for? I might try and think it out... but I lack the motivation. In fact, I have been wondering wht it means for months, but simply haven't been curiouse enoguh to ask 