Ranger Archive
Thread: Combat Balance What do we want?
In order for it to stack against any weapon profession's damage mitigation, it should be a unique *creature dodge* ability. If we had an actual damage reducer, that lies in the realm of a combat class.
Thats all i can think of right now
things i see belonging to the combat balance that we've already gone over:
stealth - needs go come in at the balancing to determine whether or not combat should be allowed from a /stealthed position... i'd go primarily with fred's proposal on this... will require development of ghillie suit, testing of out-of-combat timers, and balancing of damage/risk if deemed combat capable
defensive bonuses - melee/ranged defense and poison/disease resistance and toughness - whether from our creature knowledge or from exposure to the elements
offensive bonuses - creature to hit bonuses and critical hit - from our experience hunting and creature knowledge
ranger weapon - whether paramilitary or woodsman/hunter in nature... i don't mean for this to replace your primary weapon, but if /stealth is implemented i think it should have limited weapon use - limited to this weapon (would make /stealth easier to combat balance if they didn't have to worry about comparing T21s to vibroblades from /stealth)... this would be a secondary weapon for rangers giving them a mid-ranged attack (allowing both melee and ranged primary rangers something out of their typical ideal range)... some proposed ideas have been: beam rifle, bow/crossbow(bowcaster?), trap launcher
trap changes - at the very least, some traps must effect all creatures, NPCs, player pets, and players... nemo0's modular trapping proposal would simply be the best we could ask for..
terrain negotiation - i think group terrain negotiation belongs to the wilderness guide (i just don't have a replacement for SLs)...
burstrun - would be nice to have increased run time, if nothing else
radar - give scouts/rangers increased radar range/accuracy (would probably best be implemented by reducing nonscout's range to some value - probably 45m and increasing the max range for each level of exploration/wayfaring).. originally wolfwoodcross's idea...
camps - some camps (field bases) should not auto-disband during combat
i didn't include numbers because... well, that's the balancing act, and it's something i have no basis for comparison on
sadly i don't see our camp wishlist getting hit here, i can only hope they will get loved in the squad leader revamp... as for harvesting bonuses, if we had everything else we wanted these would not be as big a deal...
AgonThalia wrote:
Creature Damage Mitigation
In order for it to stack against any weapon profession's damage mitigation, it should be a unique *creature dodge* ability. If we had an actual damage reducer, that lies in the realm of a combat class.
I don't think this is in the realm of a combat profession. We are talking about a creature only thing, whereas other mitigations are based on all ranged and all melee attackes, be it creature or NPC of PC. I hope I don't have to eat that statement... I would also like to ask for the creature dodge as a seperate issue.
The +to hit creatures should be for ranged and melee profs.
Traps for PC's and NPC's
A ranger certified weapon (my vote is still the trap launcher)
Survival Instinct: A pre-emptive step to reduce the chance, efficacy, and time of a poison or a disease.
Critical Hit.
Thats all i can think of right now
MorBal wrote:
Whole-heartedly against a ranger certified weapon. There are at least 9 elite combat professions (only ones I can remember) and each profession has more weapon choices than you could shake a stick at. We don't need a weapon, especially if they gave us functional traps. Also if they gave us even 1 simple weapon we would be forced to become another elite combat profession, and I like the way we are now. Think about it, to keep any sembalance of a Ranger class they would have to keep the weapons mods and specials in one line. What would happen then is everyone and their dog would take that one line of Ranger to get more powerful in PvE. Thats why elite combat professions took 4 trees, if they put all the weapon specials and mods in one tree, who would master the profession? They would simply take that one tree and then move on to the next profession to get its one uber tree.
AgonThalia wrote:
Creature Damage Mitigation
In order for it to stack against any weapon profession's damage mitigation, it should be a unique *creature dodge* ability. If we had an actual damage reducer, that lies in the realm of a combat class.
Message Edited by Kiryoku on 05-25-2004 11:00 PM
While I did not think it would be possible, if the rest of you think we should try for stealth now then go for it. I just thought it would be something that would delay the rebalance as they would have to code in the extra algorithims for it.
But, if the rest of the senate... er ranger community is for it, I'm behind it.
and yes, I am Palpatine
decreased down time on burst run, possibly near no downtime at master.
pvp/npc stealth
1. Stealth, (almost) any shape or form is acceptable.
2. A MR only special usable with any ranged/meele weapon only against creatures: "Achilles Heel" (or "soft spot" shot)that hits for 30% of (undamaged) health of the target creature, works only once per creature (even if multiple MR uses it), and _if_ we get stealth, only works from stealthed state.
The in-game logic is obvious; a MR can use his superior knowledge of the creature to deliver a devestating blow to a creature, once. It would also need only limited dev resureces because there is no need for new artwork (except for a new icon), no need for crafting schematics etc, unlike, say, a new weapon.
If this is seen as too powerful, there can be additional strings attached, e.g. the MR could be required to have killed at least 50 of the same creatures before. These flags could also act as hunting prowess badge "Hunter of Rancors", "Bane of Kreetles" etc. Since there are quite a few different creatures, probably similar creatures need to be grouped for badging purposes.
Alternatively, it can be made to work only if the animal is _not_ facing the MR, this would make it something like a backstabbing attack.
3. Traps that work on NPCs/Player pets/players, even at reduced effectiveness. E.g. trapping skill can be halved against non-creatures.
4. Trap duration should be a function of trapping skill.
5. CL > 50 creatures spawn primarily as a result of a ranger using areatrack. That means few random spawns and no missions for these except explorer hunting missions. (IMHO, this is combat related because creatures are primarily used for target practice, hehe.)
6. A /spook command that works like a reverse rescue (or non-weapon warning shot) on creaures: makes them to run away and (possibly) aggro on something else. Works only once per creature.
Well, the possibilities are endless, but in general I would prefer gameplay enhancing changes (like the "Achilles Heel" shot) over simple adjustments of paramaters (like to hit rations).
I would like to see a bigger plus to melee defence than we currently get, on becoming a Master Ranger.
I would like this to stack with melee defence bonus' gained from a combat profession (in my case pistoller, but could be anything).
Fred_Skinner wrote:
While I did not think it would be possible, if the rest of you think we should try for stealth now then go for it. I just thought it would be something that would delay the rebalance as they would have to code in the extra algorithims for it.
But, if the rest of the senate... er ranger community is for it, I'm behind it.
and yes, I am Palpatine
It is your baby, Palpy. I won't include it if you don't want to. You make the call (don't get peer-pressured).
Maybe instead of worrying about balancing combat from stealth we should only be allowed to use traps from stealth. Assuming we get some form of ground traps, this would allow for you to surround a target area with traps, greatly changing the battle scene without needing to worry excessively much about balancing. And our first attack could just be a thrown trap. This allows us to cause a state effect but no damage when appearing. While not perfect, it does keep the balancing much simpler while still allowing for useful combat preparation.
As for writing the code, I've seen plenty of "ghosts" already. All they have to do is give us a skill to force that effect
.
Kiryoku (sp?) I like your idea. It doesnt replace the damage mitigation that the combat professions have, only enhances it because of the creature-centric lifestyle we have.
On a ranger specific weapon:
This is a sticky issue for some, and i want to clarify it.
Right now, traps work on animals only, and the ranger traps are far from usefull. There have been some great ideas on modular trap design and I thourougly support them.
However, here is the justification and possible implementation of a trap launcher.
The trap launcher is not a weapon in and of itself, it is a delivery vehicle for a weapon/ trap. In order for a trap to be launched, there needs to be a means of propulsion and an ignition.
1st: we create custom traps according to a modular design, for increased creativity, lethality and effect.
2nd: Rangers get a schematic for a trap housing system that includes metal, fuel (propulsion) and an explosive that is housed in the nose cone of the launched trap, this is a shaped charge designed to rip through armor of PC's and NPC's to deliver the trap's poison.
The explosive element (warhead)and the launcher both come from weaponsmiths.
3rd: When I have my schematic open, I insert the metal, fuel, warhead... and lastly the trap (multiple traps at master ranger). The result is a trap housed inside a warhead that is specifically designed to affect NPC's and PC's during combat.
These traps vs. animals would also work, increasing our chances for the launched trap to affect the target.
The trap launcher would not do any inherent damage to the target.
an example
Trap Launcher
(double barreled)
condition 1000/1000
# of traps (5 per barrel) this would be experimented on by Weaponsmiths.
Weapon speed (2.5) Rangers would get a speed modifier as we increase through the ranger skillsets.
Weapon range (+10 meters) this would be experimented on by Weaponsmith
Warhead Penetration (0.1 is very poor to 0.99 excellent)
Any slicing would increase speed, # if traps, or Warhead Penetration.
And then come the specials.
All of these specials would be additional effects to the traps contained.
Trapping I:
/lob shot This would increase the range of the trap launcher
Trapping II:
/bolo shot This would have a chance of knocking down a target.
Trapping III:
/multi shot This would fire two traps simultaneously
Trapping IV:
/cripple shot This is a shot aimed at the legs, crippling the target for a duration.
Master Ranger:
/root shot The target is immobilized for a short period of time.
These are just some ideas off of the top of my head.... run with them gang
My 2 cents, and I appreciate the correspondent's work in this regard:
Make rangers crowd control vs. creatures: Currently we can rescue. If this is improved a bit, great. We can expand on the crowd control idea by making traps that stop creatures in their tracks for a set amount of time, possibly dynamic based on the creature level vs. trapping skill. At the highest levels traps could be AOE, but there would be the agro issue as a balance to this. This ability would make rangers more sought after for tough PVE encounters.
Ranger should complement any combat profession in a unique way: I like the idea of a general damage & to hit bonus to creatures, which can be added to any combat profession. Expand the current creature to hit bonus to include damage bonuses, and include melee weapons&ranged /melee specials.
Ranger shoud understand animals in a way no other can:Since rangers can understand creature vulnerabilities like no other class, give them the ability to reduce the effectiveness of creature resists vs. their current weapon. So that creature with 60% energy resist might be reduced to 30% resist vs. a skilled ranger. Values would have to be balanced, but this would be a great way for Ranger to complement any combat profession vs. creatures. This could also be something added to Squad Leader, but with reduced effectiveness. In fact this ability could be used instead of the 'bonus damage' I recommended above. This ability would complement any combat profession nicely.
Survival should be expanded: I like the idea of poison & disease resists, abilities that would allow us to stay in the wild longer. Could also consider a bleed resist to simulate a ranger's ability to field dress wounds. All three if these improvements would add a measure of PVP value to this class, and also help us do long PVE hunting without having to run back to a city (which makes sense, fora Ranger.) Current camps are effective in my opinion.
Tracking mastery: tracking should be expanded in range, out to 1km. I have no solid reason other than I think it would be more fun to track a wider area.