Ranger Archive
Thread: Problems and solutions with Conceal. Please read and comment.
Problems and solutions with Conceal
Problems
- Resources
The conceal kits are at the moment requiring about 100 units of 4 different specific resources on each planet. I do not think the flora resource is the problem even if I do understand some have a problem getting hold of these (I bought 3 large flora harvesters... got tired of surveying.. gave them to a PA friend in return of 5000 units of each needed resource). What take me more time to gather are actually the hide, bone and meat. This is usually because they have managed to make at least 1 and often 2 of the resources those that are really hard to find. With the newly decreased harvest amount it'll take even longer. I had to spend a few hours on naboo (even a starting planet ...)gathering the required herbivore meat. This makes it very time consuming making good kits and also make them feel expensive.
- Conceal quality and bugs
So conceal kits are hard to make and therefore precious.. if they actually worked. The problem is that conceal is currently not much better than mask scent. It still breaks against low level critters on the starting planets. Conceal kits also breaks against friendly NPCs (as AT-STs) and does not work against enemy faction NPCs (as rebel/imperial NPCs).
It also makes creatures (or NPCs) attack you very often if it fails. And usually at ranges where most creatures wouldn't even care about you strolling by. This has made a lot of people actually prefer not to use mask scent as it is too dangerous. That conceal accomplish the same thing but also require the very "precious" conceal kit will make even less people willing to spend a kit on that.
Solutions
- Breaking and aggressive creatures
If Conceal or mask scent is even going to be useful the number of creatures going aggressive has to be decreased. I would prefer to see that if it breaks the creature starts to stalk you rather than to attack (it'll still make us not run straight through any creature groups). Another solution is to only make maybe 1/20 or fewer failures lead to an attack. Currently about 8/10 does so.
- Making conceal valuable
Currently I'm not ready to spend a very hard earned camo kit for just traveling over a planet as I know it can break against more or less anything. I might use it in special cases as aggressive creatures close to my harvesters or something similar.. but it's nothing I will use often. What I really would like to see is rangers being to apply conceal on themselves without a camo kit. Rangers still lack the diversity other professions have and a lot of our skills aren't that good. Being able to move easier on planets is really the number one skill I got ranger for and I think it's not too much to ask for letting us do this for free. The camo kits are a great addition to be able to conceal other people and make us more valuable in groups, but rangers shouldn't need it. The sheer number of items and resources we need to carry on ourselves are already pretty excessive. Having to keep 2-3 camo kits for each planet will be impossible.
Another solution, which is something in-between, would be to keep the camo kits for rangers, but require any hide, bone, meat and flora rather than specific types. It doesn't make sense the kits often are made up by some of the rarest resources on the planets, when it should actually be the most common. This would, if we had the flora, allow us to make kits while out hunting with groups. Currently I'm spending about a day on each planet gathering up 1000 of each resource needed.
But this is still not good enough if conceal breaks as often as it does. At most levels (and especially master ranger) a creature below 15 should NEVER be able to break conceal. Actually I think at master ranger a creature below 30 shouldn't be able to break conceal either. It's not really like being able to get past a level 30 creature gives us a huge advantage. Other classes got weapons to kill those easily; we just want to run past them. Trying to move on Yavin IV at the moment is impossible as there's
level 25+ creatures everywhere and conceal breaks pretty much all the time. This is the big advantage with rangers over other classes, the skill should be much more potent than it currently is.
I don't really know who our correspondent is at the moment, but I suppose DeltaXi65 is as close as it gets. Could you please consider these thoughts and get it forwarded somehow.
I don't want to give up on the ranger profession as I've stayed with it since beta3 (and probably never will whatever happends). But I'm loosing faith as every patch that's supposed to improve us also ruins some of our already existingnotthat goodskills.
Mostly agree, I have problems with what resources and how much of each but overall I think the new stuff is fine. We just need to fine tune a few things. This additional attack on fail of MS or Conceal has to go, the fail SHOULD just switch to the mode where everyone else is and should not make usingthem statisically MORE leathal then not using them.
I don't know what ll you people are complaining about. I have used scaley hide off of capper spineflaps, along with avain bones and herbivore meat from Gnorts. In doing this I also plopped a personel harvester I now share with a fellow ranger on Naboo.
Now in doing this I have only had conceal broken once to a Narglatch, and I was right next to the thing. The rest of the time I have been able to run pass Imperial Troopers while overt and they didn't attack me, I've found it extremely useful.
Sure it has bugs, but how about you give them some time, I'm sure Rangers are not the only class or system that needs to be fixed.
-Tal'Dras-Blue Twi'lek Extrodinare-Starsider-
(Master Ranger/Master Chef)
Q'uas:
I agree on just about all your counts, but I am an Artisan and even I dont even like that the floral component cannot be foraged. It is illogical and impractical to have a skill (forage) that fits the bill and not use it for such. I would be more than happy if they made it a foraged planet specific item and just returned the polymer component to the Field Bases. Hell, add it to the High Quality Camp as well. It looks like it should require some polymer too!
I agree with Skinner that the Critical failure should be removed or at least tweeked down to 5-3% for a Master Ranger. As it is now Conceal is a liability, to myself and my group.
Oh, we can give them all the time in the world to fix these things (which I have faith that they will), but if we don't bring up the problems and voice our concerns nothing will ever get done becuase they will go about thinking that everything is fine and that we are content with the changes.
I think the Dev's are more then aware of the issue, since this is atleast the seventh topic I've seen on the issue today.
And to answer your question I am on the Starsider Server,
-Major Tal'Dras
The Guardians, Libertas Ara Amplus
Heh, you really think the devs regulary read these forums? Hardly.. as they only posted here twice and all responses are in the none profession forums. As an example riflemen probably had 2 threads a day about the T21 being broken for several weeks.. not until a post with 600 messages on the swg disuscussion board turned up it was fixed.
And most threads still just deal with that something is wrong.. solutions are what's needed.
The effort to gather them is too much...
Anyone find any Domesticated Meat on LOk? (Hint don't think it is in the game)
The amount per created is too few...
I have heard of people getting 8 but I have gotten 3 max when experimenting...
The time it lasts is too short...
Takes longer to gather than it lasts so it is a losing proposition...
Breaks constantly!
Everything and there mother breaks it! (Then they aggro!)
The Bothan +15 doesn't seem to make any difference...
WAY too much hassle and not nearly enough payoff...
Combine that with the useless Ranger traps and the fact that it takes an hour of standing still for the /areatrack to work I am thinking of dropping my Master Ranger...
PS- What is up with /areatrack??? Such an incredibly small radious and takes so long it is quicker to run a big circle and look...
Also thought it was supposed to allow us to specify a SPECIFIC animal to track?!?!?!
Camo kits are an asinine addition for a solo player. The time and effort to acquire the necessary items, along with the resource cost, makes them pretty much useless. I would prefer Rangers continue to advance in Mask Scent. If I group, and the folks I'm grouped with want camouflage, fine. They can help collect the resources. But most of the time I explore on my own, and will never use a camo kit. Capping Mask Scent at Master Scout is something I just don't get.
Further, as I've mentioned before, Bothans got screwed in this change. Their innate Camouflage bonus no longer applies because the Scout's Camouflage was changed to Mask Scent. Bothans need to be given not only a Camouflage bonus, but also a Mask Scent bonus to compensate.
Finally, I agree it's dumb that a Ranger is incapable of acquiring wood, berries, flowers, etc., without the assistance of an Artisan. Rangers are supposed to be masters of the outdoors!
I too agree the resources need to be looked over. Many items are too-rare or do not even exists. The components of a camoflage kit by their very nature should be VERY common.I personally feel that they should planet specific hide, bone, meat and flora yet not be type-specific like leathery hide. For instance, the Lok kit would require Lok hide, Lok meat, Lok bone and a Lok fauna.
This has several advantages. First, the "need it now" Rangers can hit the bazaar looking for what they need. Second, the "self-reliant" Rangers can put them together easily by killing anything he finds in order to get a few usable kits fast (more is coming on the fauna resource). Third,"the I wanna sell kits" or "I want high charge kits" Ranger can seek out high quality resources and use those. This allows ease of use (for people in a hurry or not interested in complex crafting) and allowsRangers to make high-quality kits when they desire (for people that want to sell kits, do factory runs or just have lots of uses from a kit) by searching our animal resources of high overall quality.
Lastly, this solves the Artisan problem. With the requirement being any planet specific fauna, all a Ranger has to do is buy a fauna farm, a bit of energy (or put down a wind collector...they will collect wind energy almost anywhere)and head to the planet. They need to wander around and find any other fauna farm placed and drop theirs next to it. Turn the harvestor on and select the resources with a high yield and come back in a day. bingo! 1500 of the resources in a day. They probably don't even need to find another farm but just drop it down and select the highest yield resource. This againhelps those who want fast, those who want self-sufficient and those who want high quality. If you want fast, hit the bazaar for any fauna from the planet. Want self-reliance, buy a farm and drop it near someone's elses. Want high quality, survey or hire a surveyor,sample for high overall quality resources and place your farm there.
How can this not be the perfect solution to make everyone happy? Planet specific resourcesallow the kits make sense. Ease of use allowing the kits to be thrown together fast. Overall quality components allow people interested in selling them or high charge kits to seek out good resources. I strongly feel this is a best of both worlds scenarioand the proper channels should be uses to present it to the Devs.
If you like this suggestion, please rally behind it!