Ranger Archive
Thread: The Offensive Ranger (:D)
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Calculus_Entropy
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:08 am
#1
OK, Seraph inspired me to bring this back into the mainstream...How do people feel about Rangers getting an offensivebonus to our chosen profession's combat skills rather than getting a combat line in Ranger? (i.e. the Critical Hit from the Outdoorsman) I know people like the RP, etc. aspect of a Bow, but coding a damage modifier is (supposedly) much easier than adding new artwork.
EDIT: FYI, I am not campaigning against a Ranger weapon, I am just curious ans thought this would spur a good discussion.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 07-08-2004 09:32 AM
Seraph00X
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:14 am
#2
Woot! I made a good point! 
yeah my opinion is that rather than cause all the work for the devs of new weapons animations etc., why not simply give us new modifiers so that say if you go through hunting 4 is almost (but not quite) as good as going up through the third or fourth tier of the accuracy/aiming tree of any elite combat prof?
just a rough idea, but I'm sure you guys could flesh it out better than I could
yeah my opinion is that rather than cause all the work for the devs of new weapons animations etc., why not simply give us new modifiers so that say if you go through hunting 4 is almost (but not quite) as good as going up through the third or fourth tier of the accuracy/aiming tree of any elite combat prof?
just a rough idea, but I'm sure you guys could flesh it out better than I could
Owen-Lars
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:14 am
#3
If it was a large modifyer i would be all for it, but i would PREFER a totally seperate tree in ranger devoted to creature combat.
I would be very happy to get either but i would prefer the ranger combat line definatly. But if its too hard to do, you cant go wrong with a 2x damage modifyer for creatures 
Squidwalker
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:15 am
#4
Personally I like the offensive bonus much more. For me its kind of an RP thing, and just makes more sence and is more useful. Then there is what you said, it's probably easier to code it, and means it will benifit ANY combat profession ranger. Even though you could add the skills needed to fire a bow into ranger so the melee can shoot it, it seems really odd to me, and if I was melee I don't think I would like it.
I think the idea of the Creature To Hit is fine. They need to up it quite a bit all through ranger and of course make it so at master it's a lot higher then it is now. They need to make sure and clarify it works for ANY combat profession. On addition to that, the /sneakattack ideas and what not in the Outdoorsman are also great ideas, and also work for any combat profession. A first hit damage multiplier, if certain conditions are met sort of thing.
OK you guys are talking about a creature combat tree, not just a weapon. My above statement is in regard a specific ranger weapon. As for a whole creature combat tree, I think in the big picture that would be great. But it should have all the things that have been discussed. The To Hit bonus, the damage reduction(creature damage mitigation?) the disease and poison resists etc. All those things should be through out that whole skill line, adding to all the mods as you go up. Then also, the combat special abilties can be in that line, like the /sneakattack and the others outlined in Outdoorsman and other proposals. With the most powerful one at master.
BUUUUUT, do not forget, that by making one skill line hold all our combat bonuses, will make for a lot of dablers getting only that one line. We will be in the same boat as the CH once were where a lot of people only get 1 or 2 skill lines up to 4, with almost all the power. We will likely be where we are now. Someone with more combat profession stuff, and only ranger combat will be able to hunt faster and thus harvest faster then a master ranger. It has a very strong posibility of setting us up for this sort of situation. The alternative is to do like the CH ended up doing, and spreading the bonuses out through all four skill lines. Mabye keep the current lines we have, leave the creature to hit where it is, but increase a lot, then put all the defensive mods, and disease/poison mods and attacks spread across the board.
Message Edited by Squidwalker on 07-08-2004 08:37 AM
Message Edited by Squidwalker on 07-08-2004 08:40 AM
Owen-Lars
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:17 am
#5
I dont have a problem with hitting my targets, the only problem is dps. If a normal combat profession or stacker can outdamage you, you are no longer the master of the wilderness.
Fodder650
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:24 am
#6
Sounds good and anything thats a quick and easy addition to the game is nice. Things to make us happy while we wait for the redo of the profession
Gelotri
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:26 am
#7
I prefer the Bow because like was mentioned above, the melee folks would be left out in the cold.....
I also believe it will add to the feel of Ranger to add the Bow.....Set us apart.....If you see a flamethrower, you say there goes a commando.....dont we want to be set apart? Its only one graphic and they could even use or modify the Bowcaster graphic which would save work....
Just a thought or two
Fodder650
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:27 am
#8
The bows been something we've been asking for awhile now. What i think Calc's trying to say is anything thats not to programmer intensive while their doing JTL and such. But thats my intrepration.
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:36 am
#9
Owen-Lars wrote:
I dont have a problem with hitting my targets, the only problem is dps. If a normal combat profession or stacker can outdamage you, you are no longer the master of the wilderness.
Good point. I was trying to think of a way to keep from alienating a combat style. If we get a bow, the melee folks are (mostly) unhappy. If we get a knife, the ranged folks lose out. If we get damage mods, everyone can still be what they want to be. If we get weapons like you suggested in your skill tree, you need to make 2 that have different attacks, mods and artwork.
Calculus_Entropy
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:40 am
#10
I don't think it is that easy. You have to make sure the clipping/sizing/etc. is working properly for every species AND every body type (tall, short, skinny, fat). The devs have always said that new artwork is very hard for them to implement.
Gelotri wrote:
Its only one graphic and they could even use or modify the Bowcaster graphic which would save work....
Jedi_Titus
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:45 am
#11
I'd much rather get adamage bonus than new weapon.... not to rain on the bow-guys parade
I'd rather use the weapons from the other combat professions like pistols to fight with. For a ranger-only weapon the devs would have to redo a whole tree of the profession to add all the new skill mods we'd need. Adding the a bonus would require work too, but not as much (I think). Plus it would be beneficial to everyone whether you use pistols, rifles, pikes, or a VK. With a bow you'd have to use the bow to get any benefit from it.
But really when I comes down to it I'd happily take either. The damage bonus is just the one I'd prefere.
Squidwalker
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:53 am
#12
Yes a damage mod would probably be more benificial at this point, then an accuracy mod. Especially for you melee types that almost never miss. But I'm thinking post CB where they say that accuracy is going way down, our HAM specific specials will be less accurate then the random HAM specials, and using specials will be lowered due to the new HAM systems. I could be wrong of course, but I'm thinking post CB a To HIt mode will actually be pretty helpful, and I'm also thinking easier to add in code then damage mulitpliers that stack up.
Owen-Lars
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:55 am
#13
Good point. I was trying to think of a way to keep from alienating a combat style. If we get a bow, the melee folks are (mostly) unhappy. If we get a knife, the ranged folks lose out. If we get damage mods, everyone can still be what they want to be. If we get weapons like you suggested in your skill tree, you need to make 2 that have different attacks, mods and artwork.
Yeah a very difficult situation:
- If you please the ranged/melee players in the best way you can (ranger only weapons) its a hell of alot of work to put them in.
- If you please both by adding multiplyers then they have to be large enough to make a massive difference and still this option wont be as favourable as the ranger weapons.
- If you cut down on prog time by only doing one weapon type you alienate a combat style which is very bad because imo this community rocks
There needs to be another way we can do this, we just havnt thought of it yet. Id be delighted if the devs invested in getting us out ranged/melee weapon for ranger only but id also be happy (not near as much as ranger only weapons) to get the creature damage multiplyers.
Im not sure about most others but i love it when i walk around theed with my bezerker rifle out, people dont often see them and i get like 5-10 tells whilst waiting for buff about people asking about it, what i do, where i got it etc. What i would like is someone send a tell saying:
Random Guy: "wow what is that weapon"
Me: "High Tech Compound Bow mate"
Random Guy: "Wow that looks amazing, how do you get that and how good is it?"
Me: "You get the certwhen your master ranger and it enables you to hunt more effectively than any other profession"
Random Gut: "Oh cool, it looks great too, thanks for the help"
Me: "No probs, good hunting"
Or
"Hey look! There goes one of those rangers"
"I thought they were extinct? How do you know"
"Well apart from the title, he carrying one of those super powerfull bows"
"Wow what a guy" - lmao sorry couldnt help it hehe
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