Ranger Archive
Thread: Why I don't want a Ranger Revamp...yet
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Phenix1050
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:27 pm
#1
Okay, make sure you read this all the way through before you go all Fab Four and flame on.
I don't want a Ranger Revamp yet, because right now there are about a trillion and a half "larger issues" that they want to fix, and I don't want to be given a quick makeover that enhances very little about the core aspects of our proffession. I don't want to be given skills that we didn't ask for and don't want (like the ID's getting to do all the stat migration). I don't want to be swept through quickly and have skilspoint requirements taken away in an effort to fix major problems in our proffession (a la the most recent BH fix). I want solutions to problems and I want what was promised the first time.
But I don't want that right now because I see Rangers having a much bigger problem: little to no usefullness in PvP and the GCW. True, /areatrack is a great skill to have, and some Rangers (mostly Melee profs) can hold their own in a fight. But on a large scale, I don't think the Ranger is usefull in PvP.
This to me isn't a matter of having a revamp devoted to us, but should rather be part of the Combat Balance. Meaning I think that our issues in PvP and the GCW are just as important as changing the damage that proffessions do. I think that the Combat Balance should do exactly what it says and balance the proffessions, and while Ranger isn't a combat proffession in and of itself, I see us much like the Smuggler:
Our lower level skills (scout/combat prof) should be made to fit our proffession, and we should recieve combat skills that are unique and apply to our image. Much like the Smuggler has several unique pistol shots, I belive Ranger should have unique attacks. Much like Smugglers gain access to a weapon, I think Rangers should have a unique weapon. Much like in their publish, they will adopt a new style of fighting, I believe Rangers should receive abilities that are the opposite of the Smugglers. Smugglers will have a "down-and-dirty" fighting style, Rangers should have something that fits our proffession-- a "wilderness combat" style.
No, I don't think this should be part of a unique Ranger Revamp. We need too much right now to have it all in one publish. Thus, much like what happenend last time, when we were promised several skills that we never recieved, I would fear that we wouldn't get all that we were promised.
Thus, I want to push for the Combat Balance to incorperate a unique Ranger set of skills. I can wait for our /track command. I can wait for camps that don't disband in combat. I can wait for ground traps and better traps. I can wait for all of these because in my opinion, these are the "super-scout" skills. While I agree with Vorpaks that we SHOULD be super-scouts, I also agree wtih him that this is not all we want to be. Thus, a Ranger Revamp should incorperate skills that are "Ranger/superscout" skills. But we should become more balanced in combat first. In my opinion these are the best ways:
-Ranger weapon
-Ranger-specific attacks/fighting style
-Stealth Combat
-Ranger-specific skills in the GCW
everything else, I can wait for. These ideas should be addressed in the CB, rather than waiting for a Ranger revamp.
JBMat
Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:11 am
#2
Hooah. Totally agree.
The latest BH fix did not fix BH, only lets them get some additional skills to try and work through what is borked up. That's not a fix, it's a work around.
My only proviso - Ranger weapon. I can agree with the bow. Used by both ranged and melee types - specific skill to Rangers - much like the bowcaster for Wookies. But it has to be PvE specific, much like our traps. Altho BHs lost trapping (thank the Maker) they will eventually somehow get trapping for marks. Their traps will be NPC specific, ours animal specific. Both could be used in PvP - on pets. We shall see. The bow will be a great addition - the differing types of arrows, not unlike traps, could be added to the survival line, making it at least semi - useful.
Any other weapon, be it melee or ranged - actually we would need one of each - will raise screams of protest far and wide.
Great post. Why do people talk so bad about drunken Bothans??
JB
Cohen001
Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:35 am
#3
I would rather wait and have the proffession revamped properly, not just rushed through.
Add Ranger persific power ups. Crafted and used by us from items foraged of corpses and from the wilderness. These would be limited to planet that you got the items from, and help to give us that edge in all pve combat.
AgonThalia
Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:13 am
#4
Amen!
This is something that I fully agree with. There are some things about us that need to be adressed in the combat balance. ie: a ranger specific weapon (be it high tech compound bow or a laser guided trap launcher).
Something that I have a distinct disliking to is reactionary changes. Our revamp should be thoughtful and done with the support of the ranger community.
I dont want a rushed change and if that means i have to wait for a bit, then so be it... I will still have fun playing the game.
This is something that I fully agree with. There are some things about us that need to be adressed in the combat balance. ie: a ranger specific weapon (be it high tech compound bow or a laser guided trap launcher).
Something that I have a distinct disliking to is reactionary changes. Our revamp should be thoughtful and done with the support of the ranger community.
I dont want a rushed change and if that means i have to wait for a bit, then so be it... I will still have fun playing the game.
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:22 am
#5
I have always been a proponent of 'No Ranger Revamp Yet.' I think we can have many of our issues resolved in hotfixes, the Correspondent Issues Mini-Publish and now the CB. I have no info, I swear, but I feel very good about what we may get from the CB. I really think the Devs are trying to get it right, and trying to get every profession involved.
Squidwalker
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:51 am
#6
I mostly agree Phenix. Since they already have the publishes scheduled and planned out to like number 12, and 11 currently being the CB, we aren't getting even a revamp for a long while. So we are going to be waiting. I would just like to see us on the radar, publish 13 or 14 something like that.
Yes I certainly hope they make ranger at least somewhat viable and usefull and/or supportive in PvP and GCW. That is the implied change coming with the CB according to the devs. They say they want to make every profession have some roll in the GCW. And with the already added Mando Armor to ranger, it makes for a small light at the end of the tuneel.
I don't know what they intend to really do for non "combat" professions in the CB. The combat ones like pistoleer, rifleman, swordsman etc, its pretty easy. Just fix and balance the professions. For all the other professions though, I don't know.
My problem with the CB is that the devs are making it out to be the "Holly Grail" of the game fixes. What do I mean. Just about every answer to all combat professions, and some non combat, is "wait for the CB". This implies A LOT of changes and fixes in on publish for the ENTIRE game. They can't hardly get things right for one profession in one publish, and I'm supposed to feel good about them balancing the whole combat, PvP, GCW in one publsih? That's what I mean about Holly Grail. They are making the CB to be the End All of sooo many problems with this game. And I'm afraid if they fail in that, there is going to be a fire started in the web server room from all the flaming and pissed off players. And IMHO with all the hype the devs are making the CB, they will deserve every bit of it. They are the ones making it the holly grail, not us. I don't know if they realize that is what they are doing, but non the less they are.
So I really really hope the CB does bring some good changes to the game and Ranger to make us useful, even with just animal hunting(we aren't now) let alone PvP and GCW. Then, later, yes I would like to see a full profession revamp. But as you said Phenix, I also don't think it's going to be a 1-2 month rework kind of thing, like most other revamps. The jedi one has been getting worked on since almost after the first jedi started showing up in the game. How many months ago was that? Since Ranger, according to the devs, was not even finished to begin with, we need more then just a revamp. We need a lot more time with the devs to flesh out and fully work on ranger and make it what it should be.
Bartholomew_Roberts
Wed Jul 07, 2004 7:57 am
#7
I kind of agree. I would rather wait and have it done right. I also think some of our smaller issues(like a new trap or 2) might be fixable with a hotfix. Has anyone other than me already had the idea that we already are useful to the GCW? No, we're not pvp specialists, and I for one don't want to be or I would have picked a prof that's good at PvP. I've said before that we're a SUPPORT profession, like a doc or crafter. Our place in the GCW seems to me to be able to do recon and to help supply our side of the war with superior equipment by getting our crafters the best materials. And also to allow our guys to heal in a camp at the rear(I mean the mind stuff and BF I'm welll aware of the doc droids). I'm not flaming anyone I just don't understand why this GCW/PvP thing keeps being an issue to what seems to me to bea wilderness based support class.
Calculus_Entropy
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:25 am
#8
Bartholomew_Roberts wrote:
I kind of agree. I would rather wait and have it done right. I also think some of our smaller issues(like a new trap or 2) might be fixable with a hotfix. Has anyone other than me already had the idea that we already are useful to the GCW? No, we're not pvp specialists, and I for one don't want to be or I would have picked a prof that's good at PvP. I've said before that we're a SUPPORT profession, like a doc or crafter. Our place in the GCW seems to me to be able to do recon and to help supply our side of the war with superior equipment by getting our crafters the best materials. And also to allow our guys to heal in a camp at the rear(I mean the mind stuff and BF I'm welll aware of the doc droids). I'm not flaming anyone I just don't understand why this GCW/PvP thing keeps being an issue to what seems to me to bea wilderness based support class.
That is a nice outlook
. The desire to PvP simply comes from the player and not the Ranger skillset. Some peeps are Rangers that like PvP and there think we should be military. Others, like yourself, see the support aspect. I do not see the current Ranger skillset as a PvP skillset (tracking is nice for advance warning of numbers, etc.) and I use my combat abilites to determine how I PvP
DND_Cas
Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:47 am
#9
Just give us skills that work on both and there won't be a PvP/PvE arguement.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
That is a nice outlook
I still cannot see why they cannot give us a skillset that encompasses all playstyles.
Areatrack is a perfect example of what I don't like - I can see the logical difference between animals and people but not people and players. Why are npc's and pc's a seperate skill? Traps are another example. Why do they work on critters but not on player trained critters?
EbeLightcloud
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:14 am
#10
I agree with you Phenix. We Rangers need to be part of the GCW and I think you analogyusing smuggler works.ARanger revamp will come, but as you have said the Dev's need to concentrate on getting us involved within the CB, and your suggestions are a great place to start.
Ebe
SeanBlader
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:16 am
#11
If we're lucky enough to be in one of the monthly publishes before the end of the year they need to start talking to us now. Look how long it's taken them to talk over the Smuggler situation? So what if Smugglers don't have anything to smuggle, all the smugglers I know are the richest characters in the game, while also being master pistoleers and master TK's. This gives them a role in PvP, the GCW, and a host of other opportunities for player created content and stories.
Okay I agree that I don't want any work-arounds, all the Bounty Hunters I know aren't too happy with their situation, but on the other hand, I don't want to wait another year for something Rangers should've had happen with Publish 1 or 2.
Let's not kid ourselves, we are by far the most patient, supportive and understandingprofession in the game, we shouldn't roll over because they have more pressing issues. We had issues at release, and we have many of the same if not more issues now.
While I agree with the destination of this thread and the heart is in the right place, I believe we've been waiting far far too long already. I believe that the Ranger community has been ready for a revamp for months, so when the Dev's come seeking idea's for what we think, we'll say "Outdoorsman Proposal" and send them on their way to get it done. As far as I'm concerned we've done our part in being prepared, and being patient, Now is the time for Rangers to get on the schedule before the end of the year.
Gelotri
Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:41 am
#13
Although I am not into PvP very much, I feel that Ranger should have some combat skills. I also am a firm believer that we ARE supposed to be the PVE experts. Our role is indeed a more supportive role but there should be some PvP skills or why even give us the option to gravitate towards a faction? Why not just make it so we are all neutral?
Getting back to the subject though.......we do need a solid revamp of skills and abilities. Traps need to be more effective and actually work on the Higher critters at the Master level. The term Master should mean just that. Not just a title to wear. The devs stated that we were getting our revamp after the JTLS release as our devs (The ones devoted to us) are caught up in the JTLS release and will come back to us once that is out of the way. It means a little patience and time. Lets just hope they are men of their word.
I feel there should be some combination of the skills and what-not that was promised by TH almost a year ago and the Outdoorsman proposal. Most of us that put a lot of thought and discussion into it would like to see some of the fruits of our labor come to pass. There are those of us (Calculus, Squidwalker, JBMatt, Agonthalia, and Fred_Skinner, and more) who have not only been a part of the Ranger profession since just after the game release but will probably stay a part of it. I hope our vision comes to pass and many of us are rewarded with our enduring patience and understanding. I also hope (and please dont take this the wrong way) the folks just passing through who dont plan on staying a part of the Ranger community dont cause our beloved profession to either be ignored or worse....ruined with unusable or BS skills and additions.
There is nothing wrong with Ranger being a well rounded and adaptable profession. That is what makes a Ranger anyways...adaptability...to change....to harsh environments....to anything that is thrown our way. Its not a profession...its a way of life.
So lets hope we get most of what we were promised and lets be patient and wait our time as laid out during the Fanfest by the devs. After JTLS.
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