Ranger Archive
Thread: Defense bonuses
Personally I'd like to see a range of bonuses placed though out the whole of the rangers tree's
RangedAND Melee defence + 40 (spread liberally through the whole class with +10 of that in master ranger)
In the trapping line +40 resistance to poison/disease &stun ( +5,+5,+5,+10 &+15 in master ranger)
with +20 resistance to dizzy, posturchange and blind in the survival like (+5, +5 &+10 in survival 4)
Creature damage mit.1 in tracking 1, C.D. Mit 2 in tracking 3 and C.D. Mit 3 in Master Ranger
SOE HAVE to consider it, we're ment to hunt creature's, we're ment to be good at hunting creatures.
The only way we're going to be able to do that is if the profession gains a slew of bonuses with there focus toward creature combat.
If SOE don't want to have one class out ballence the other then IMHO we should be asking for MORE bonuses than the ones I've suggested here ... these bonuses are worse than most elite weapon specialists, so by default .. you can become a better creature hunter by choosing 2 weapons specialist classes than by choosing one weapon speciast class and the Ranger.
And thats wrong.. so theres your imballence...
JBMat wrote:
Rangers already have a slew of bonuses, some of which apply only to some Rangers.
JB
you what ?
are we talking about the same ranger class here ? there are less bonuses for combat in the whole ranger class than there are in novice marksman.
and the fact that those same meager bonuses don't apply to melee combat aswell it quite frankly deplorable
We aren't a combat class. Be glad we have ANY combat mods other than creature-type mods.
Takei_Urawaza wrote:
JBMat wrote:
Rangers already have a slew of bonuses, some of which apply only to some Rangers.
JB
you what ?
are we talking about the same ranger class here ? there are less bonuses for combat in the whole ranger class than there are in novice marksman.
and the fact that those same meager bonuses don't apply to melee combat aswell it quite frankly deplorable
Could you clarify what you mean by "not thinking up new bonuses" ? Frankly if they're going in there to add a "+10 to melee accuaracy vs creature" then they can spend therest of the 10 minutes putting in my suggestions as well.
I can't .. nay WON'T believe that it's _that_ hard to modify bonuses within a class/table structure.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
We aren't a combat class. Be glad we have ANY combat mods other than creature-type mods.
1) We have no weapon certifications upon novice or master, every other combat profession does.
2) We get meager defense bonuses to the creatures that we fight (i agree that there should be more) while other combat classes get defenses for most state attacks
3) With the unfair exception to a ranged bonus to hit, rangers get no real advantage to damage or speed with a weapon of choice
4) Rangers by themselves do no actual damage to an animal unless theres a weapon skill attached to it.
5) The skills that we do have, camo, camps, traps, area track, provide more assistance to a group than to the individual. Solo, throw a couple of traps on a critter and by the time you're done, he's already munching on your head.
6) Terrain negotiation (at the master scout level) helps you get to your prey efficiently and then run away from the prey efficiently.
7) Unfortunatley, the stated intention for rangers to be the ultimate creature hunters is not supported by the skills that are given to us.
8) Although you could argue that the CH's weapons are their pets, look at the other support professions, (SL, CM, Doc...etc) they dont get the protections either. This really shows that rather than a combat profession (which i believe that should be enhanced in our case) we are best suited as the skills now stand as a support prof.
Like others have said, it is not the skills that we as rangers possess that make us the best at what we do, it is how we use the skills we have that make us ultimate creature hunters.
Number 4 says it all, but Agon's entire thread said everything I could and more. A combat class deals damage to everything (mobs, PCs, lairs, turrets). We have no skills that deal damage (creature-to-hit is not a skill). I can agree that a creature damage mitigation might be nice, and makes sense. That fits in with the "animal study" idea that is going around. It is my fault for not stating (in my other message)that we are CREATURE combat support class. Combat classes candamage everything, support classes assist while not dealing damage. Also, you never stated with a clear cut arguement that blows me out of the waterwhy we are a combat class. All you stated were mods/skills you would like to see...
AgonThalia wrote:
I have to agree with Calc that Rangers are not a combat class but a combat support profession.
1) We have no weapon certifications upon novice or master, every other combat profession does.
2) We get meager defense bonuses to the creatures that we fight (i agree that there should be more) while other combat classes get defenses for most state attacks
3) With the unfair exception to a ranged bonus to hit, rangers get no real advantage to damage or speed with a weapon of choice
4) Rangers by themselves do no actual damage to an animal unless theres a weapon skill attached to it.
5) The skills that we do have, camo, camps, traps, area track, provide more assistance to a group than to the individual. Solo, throw a couple of traps on a critter and by the time you're done, he's already munching on your head.
6) Terrain negotiation (at the master scout level) helps you get to your prey efficiently and then run away from the prey efficiently.
7) Unfortunatley, the stated intention for rangers to be the ultimate creature hunters is not supported by the skills that are given to us.
8) Although you could argue that the CH's weapons are their pets, look at the other support professions, (SL, CM, Doc...etc) they dont get the protections either. This really shows that rather than a combat profession (which i believe that should be enhanced in our case) we are best suited as the skills now stand as a support prof.
Like others have said, it is not the skills that we as rangers possess that make us the best at what we do, it is how we use the skills we have that make us ultimate creature hunters.
Message Edited by Calculus_Entropy on 02-05-2004 01:48 PM
Takei_Urawaza wrote:
Personally I'd like to see a range of bonuses placed though out the whole of the rangers tree's
I agree with your theory Takei, though certainly am not experienced enough to comment directly on the numbers.
We are a support profession right now. But the game is in a constant state of flux. We can't kill a mob, but between our traps and the Creature To-Hit bonuses we already get, we're pretty close. It's not like anyone is arguing that a Ranger/Musician must have a solid role in combat. It's being argued that we could be better at it from the base we're already in.
I love the Outdoorsman proposal. But I've been around the block too many times to think that's ever going to come to us in one fell swoop. We're getting the modular camps (purportedly, and without details) soon. We've already gotten the Camo Kits and something of a profession redesign from way back. We'll get other things as they come along, in response to the community (old and new) and our role in whatever the game is at the time.
I could see us getting Traps that work in PvP, having advanced Traps replaced with stationary ones, having them removed altogether in favor of a combat line, any number of things.
I could see Camo Kits going away in favor of a new Mask Scent line that goes as high as +150 and/or works against NPCs (vs the Scout Mask Line which'd work only against mobs, for example) and removes our presence from the overhead map and the radar.
I would like to see us become more proficient in hunting mobs, and harvesting the results. I would like to see us have, from within the template, some presence in the GCW (mostly Traps against NPCs and players, with tweaks). We can already requisition faction items from an overt-placed camp, which is cool.
Ranger is incomplete. We discuss many ways to continue the path. I agree with your concept of spreading combat bonuses throughout the template since how I view the Ranger, that would benefit both our natural hunting ability and provide something more for PvP.