Ranger Archive
Thread: Visible Camo...
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SickSix
Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:30 pm
#1
I was thinking recently.....
As a Ranger, we have camo right? Well, how hard would it be to actually make it visual? Like a Ghillie Suit used by real snipers? would it be that hard? I don't know, couldn't be as simple as a modified Duster? Except it would have a really fast decay so they were not constantly reusable. As a 'Sniper' and aspiring Master Ranger, i think it only makes sense that i'd be able to craft my own Ghillie Suits....And each planets Camo kit would actually appear different..... ok, each "systems" kit would look different. no sense in having Tat's kit diff from Loks....
what do you guys/gals think?
[edit]are you happy now you picky sobs!? lol[/edit]
Message Edited by SickSix on 02-10-2005 07:09 AM
Tarnak_Archvold
Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:18 pm
#2
I like the idea of gillie suits. However, gillie suit are the domain of snipers. Would it not make more sense that it was part of the riflemen's cover skills?
The point of a gillie suit is to make the sniper look like a pile of leaves or some other natural occurring thing, and thus prevent him being spotted. As thus, the concept of a gillie suit would seem kind for strange for anyone who was not lying down on the ground while, much less for anyone moving around.
Fred: "Hey Bob, did you se that pile of leafs that just moved by? Do you not think we should investigate?"
Bob: "Yarh I saw it, but why investigate... it was just a pile of leafs."
As opposed to:
Fred: "Hey Bob, can you se that pile of leafs over there? Do you not think we should investigate?"
Bob: "Yarh I se it, but why investigate... it is just a pile of leafs."
The point of a gillie suit is to make the sniper look like a pile of leaves or some other natural occurring thing, and thus prevent him being spotted. As thus, the concept of a gillie suit would seem kind for strange for anyone who was not lying down on the ground while, much less for anyone moving around.
Fred: "Hey Bob, did you se that pile of leafs that just moved by? Do you not think we should investigate?"
Bob: "Yarh I saw it, but why investigate... it was just a pile of leafs."
As opposed to:
Fred: "Hey Bob, can you se that pile of leafs over there? Do you not think we should investigate?"
Bob: "Yarh I se it, but why investigate... it is just a pile of leafs."
JBMat
Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:04 am
#3
GHILLIE.
from the name Scots game wardens used for the camoflageclothing they wore when observing game areas to arrest poachers.
GHILLIE.
Please spell it right. Thank you.
Now on to the idea - I think I floated this way back about a month after the game started. It would be a co-operative effort between a Ranger and a tailor. They would be planet specific and have a certain number of uses. Resources would come from the planet involved, much like camo kits. Would be a Master Ranger bonus, or be like the camo kits and as you progress, you gain the ability to make and use more suits... blah blah blah... you got the idea.
Dunno bout Owen, but I am picking this hill to die on for our revamp. That and harvesting.
JB
if you spelled it wrong, you will be required to spend the 10-20 hours typically required to make a ghillie hunting Tatooine avian.
Message Edited by JBMat on 02-10-2005 01:32 PM
DureenaBadKarma
Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:12 am
#4
I'm with JB on this one (NOOOO, not again! 
)
)It would be a minor change to the way camo is set up but the effect would work the same, just be a lot lot prettier.
Outdoorsmen do use ghillie suits or a variation of them, they are not exclusive to snipers.
And although they wouldn't be very effective in RL when used to fight creatures standing up or 3ft away with a big vibrating staff (!) as it's just a graphical change it's really for the RP'ers anyway.
Should we start a petition? 
Huntseeker
Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:16 am
#5
SickSix wrote:Gillie Suit
Wonder if i should take offence he cann't spell it right
, anyway if you do a search u can see the ammount of times people have put this topic up, heck i even raised it in a special weapons topic for ranger before (think thats where jb got the meaning from ), anyway for the ghillie suit it would first be impractile to make it fast decay, maybe make it that each planet visited it requie's reapplied, or for each running movement it requires reapplication, also for those saying it's only practicle to riflemen, for the moment yes, but if they made the creatures able to wander or away from spawn point's it makes a plauseable application for the stealthy killer, who prefers pouncing in surprise against a target.
agent156
Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:42 am
#6
I don't know about you guys but the first time I put on the Tat camo kit I half expected to get covered in some Tat sand colored texture... I was sad.
Tarnak_Archvold
Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:08 am
#7
Both "gilli suit" and "guile suit", return hits when used as search words on google, as does "Ghillie Suit" even some sites that sell the stuff spell it gilli or guile... So I do not think there is any reason to take offence of that.
Anyway for functionality, why not make a separate suit for each planet, yes even different ones for lok and tat. The suit it self would not help anything, but if it was worn while camouflage was applied it would add a substantial bonus against being spotted... say any creature that made a successful spot would have to re-role the spot check, and only if the 2nd one was also a spot would the player be spotted.
As for graphics, why not just make what ever textures the character have, in to the texture of the ground on the planet in question, it could make a texture check every 10 minutes to se what ground the character was over and them update it.
Anyway for functionality, why not make a separate suit for each planet, yes even different ones for lok and tat. The suit it self would not help anything, but if it was worn while camouflage was applied it would add a substantial bonus against being spotted... say any creature that made a successful spot would have to re-role the spot check, and only if the 2nd one was also a spot would the player be spotted.
As for graphics, why not just make what ever textures the character have, in to the texture of the ground on the planet in question, it could make a texture check every 10 minutes to se what ground the character was over and them update it.
Almagill
Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:22 am
#8
Well, as one of the Scots Rangers on here I'm going to weigh in and say it's got to be ghillie. (So long as that doesn't involve tweed britches and jacket and a deerstalker cap. Although... )
This was one of the first proposals I read when I first found the Ranger forum and thought "Man, these people don't want much, do they? JUST a big fat graphic that makes them look different when they're in the dirt..." Now I'm like "OK, so if we COULD have that and it gave, some enhanced cammo/maskscent and damage mitigation 'until it broke'" that'd be worth the wait.
I almost agree that it's something that should be restricted to Master Ranger / Master Rifles, after all, Master Ranger / melee would just look silly... "Mummy, that bush just got up and klicked seven shades of shoeshine out of that rancor..." peh.
Next on my list of wants, a Land Rover speeder to take hunt parties out....
This was one of the first proposals I read when I first found the Ranger forum and thought "Man, these people don't want much, do they? JUST a big fat graphic that makes them look different when they're in the dirt..." Now I'm like "OK, so if we COULD have that and it gave, some enhanced cammo/maskscent and damage mitigation 'until it broke'" that'd be worth the wait.
I almost agree that it's something that should be restricted to Master Ranger / Master Rifles, after all, Master Ranger / melee would just look silly... "Mummy, that bush just got up and klicked seven shades of shoeshine out of that rancor..." peh.
Next on my list of wants, a Land Rover speeder to take hunt parties out....
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:58 am
#9
"Dunno bout Owen, but I am picking this hill to die on for our revamp. That and harvesting"
Hehe im with you on that one.
Question:
Should ranger visual stealth be a clothing item or a gameplay mechanic?
Clothing Item:
Like you said, Ghillie suit, like a jacket, tailor and ranger made.
Good Points: Looks the dog's nads, very rp'able, gives rangers a defining 'look' and identiably feature.
Bad Points: Reduces the unique looks or ranger (we all look the same when stealthed), requires a tailor, depending on what system implemented a ghillie suit may not provide that much visual apearance reduction.
Gameplay mechanic:
Like EQ2 and also similar to WoW stealth ability. The ranger's apearance is 'faded' making them partially transparent enabling them to (when placed well) avoid the gaze of others. We are not totally removed from the visual spectrum but are semi transparent so we can blend in to a great degree.
Good Points: Allows rangers to maintain their own personal look, pure visual stealth, enables us to even 'ambush' enemies if we hide well, makes a ranger take note of the environment and pick places/paths to attack.
Bad Points: Not as rp'able, we dont actually get any camo other than what we wear as clothing (just a faded look), instead of looking like a bush or shrub we would simply be less noticable.
For those that have played stealth like classes in EQ2 and WoW you will have no doubt experienced the visual stealth abilities that actually 'fade' the target which blends them into the background to a greater degree. I prefer this as it allows us to keep our unique apearances and forces us to actually think about possition and exposure much more.
Message Edited by Owen-Lars on 02-10-2005 03:00 PM
SickSix
Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:17 am
#10
well, I figured it had beendiscussed before. But since it has been a while since discussed, i guess nows the time to bring it back up to the surface.
I don't like the 'fade out' idea. For one, i think that might be more difficult to program than and actuall clothing item...but i'm no programmer 
I'd rather have a wearable item.
Ok, so no 'fast decay'. Have it only wearable while kneeling and/or prone? auto un-equip when you start to run? that sounds the most reasonable and realistic. A running bush is going to get noticed 
I was on the fence about wether to put this in the Rifleman forum or here, i chose here. Because We are supposed to be masters of disguise in the wild. And we are. Rifleman have no camo abilities except /concealshot. (which is a lifesaver) Would it be possible to make certain abilities require TWO master boxes?? i'm sure that could be written into the game. have gHille suits require master Rifles and master ranger? I don't know why a tailor needs to be involved. I don't need a tailor to make my current camo kits...???
ShyGirl
Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:22 am
#11
SickSix wrote:
I was thinking recently.....
make it visual? Like a Ghillie Suit used by real snipers? would it be that hard?
what do you guys/gals think?
This idea has been brought up many times on these forums (and I don't see why it would be hard to make it possible.).... I love the idea, it would be super cool, as long as it doesn't get my hair messed up.
Owen-Lars
Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:29 am
#12
Lol
you almost made a killer mistake mate, if you would of posted in the rifleman forums then you would of got quiet a bit of stick from the alpha testers and many many rangers 
Riflemen dont have any stealth justifications, they cant hide, they cant conceal, they cant stealth. They are rifle jockeys and thats all. If you are talking about stealth skills then they deserve to go into the profession that specialises in stealth (ranger).
Requiring two master profession also seems odd. Why require riflemen when a ghillie suit would have nothing to do with their skills?
It is all down to personal opinion but i love that we have such a diverse look in game. We are all rangers but each of us have our own take on how we should look, that makes us very unique in my eyes. Although it would be great to have a ghille suit look i would hate the fact im running around looking like every other ranger out there.The gear im wearing atm could do a similar job (if i wernton radar you wouldnt see me on endor or dath hehe) so why devote resources to a stealth ability that will only add a little to the profession?
hehe) so why devote resources to a stealth ability that will only add a little to the profession?Yes it would be cool, i wont deny that but i think we already have clothing that 'blends' us in to a degree with our surrounding. The prospect of lowering my visual definition (fading me) is much more apealing as it highlights to me a conentrated effort to reduce your apearance and 'blend' into the background whilst still maintining your ranger look. I also think that fading would be a skill that gives so much more benefit to the user, not only your ranged people but also melee and opens up ambush tactics to us.
Once people know how to look out for ghillie suits its will be very hard to use effectivelly, unless you actually look exactly like a rock from that planet or a tree.
Overall though a ghillie suit would be cool but i think ranger needs a defining skill direction and stealth could be it, a ghillie suit just doesnt give enough 'bang' to achieve this.
SickSix
Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:37 am
#13
yeah, I prolly woulda got my head ripped off
i know this is a friendly place.
Well, i'd be ok with fading. Imagine the uber-sneakiness at night!!!! I understand your concern about keeping individuality, but i gotta tell ya, i've seen maybe 3 (three) master rangers the whole time i've been on Shadowfire. For me, i don't think showing up to a party wearing the same dress as the next ranger is a problem.
oh,oh, i meant suit, i meant SUIT!!!
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