CUEmu - Thread Posts

Balrozgul

Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:33 am

Rangers, the time has come to start taking our gains so far as a subtle hint of dev support for our profession and where it will lead post CU. Giving in to our requests for CL and health gains from our ranger skill boxes seems to indicate that they are willing to consider us to be a combat profession, however given the time constraints of the CU rollout, any additional work on revamping ranger skills will likely be delayed until after the live update of the CU. As far as what to do in the meantime, the answer should be clear: we need to gather the ideas of the community. Not, however, the long and complex threads which have long flavored this board as far as potential directions for this profession to take. Instead we must decide on a role to fill within the combat schematic, whether it be crowd control/tank/damage dealer/healer or some variation thereof. It is only AFTER we come up with a concise rolefor ourselves as a whole that we can start pushing some of our other ideas on HOW to make such a role work. That is when we can start again talking about various new ideas for traps, weapons, camps, etc.

As for me, Id like to see Ranger being placed in the schematic directly below where carbineer currently is. Im sure some melee rangers out there are probably going to push more tank in their schematic, but as to me Id like to see an expansion in our role as movement restrictors, state inflictors, and overall using our knowledge of the natural world to turn the tide to our favor. Being slightly down on the schematic might also give us a future ability to have a small degree of field medicine available to us that isn't exactly "modern" medicine but works in its own ways.

Bal Rozguul

(Proconsul of Sentinels of Banir)

Master Ranger ::: Master Pistoleer

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." : Qui-Gon Jinn

Oculus

Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:33 pm

#2

Before I decide, I want a promise by the Devs that we are going to receive melee and ranged defenses equal to the other combat professions.

We got the CL increase, and thanks for that, but load up any character builder and play around with master ranger + combat profession, then try with combat professions + any other combat/content profession (content being smuggler, bounty hunter, squad leader) and you'll notice what a disadvantage we're still at lacking any "general" skill mods.

Oku Kee'lus

Master Ranger | Master Carbineer

Creaturetaimer

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:51 pm

#3

Oculus wrote:
Before I decide, I want a promise by the Devs that we are going to receive melee and ranged defenses equal to the other combat professions.

We got the CL increase, and thanks for that, but load up any character builder and play around with master ranger + combat profession, then try with combat professions + any other combat/content profession (content being smuggler, bounty hunter, squad leader) and you'll notice what a disadvantage we're still at lacking any "general" skill mods.

Yea but you have to keep in mind that we have always been a lil underpowered compared to a pure combat character. A Tkm defence stacker has and will kick the crud out of me both before and after the CU (if he can find me with the new version of cover). so with the CU we are no longer gimped BUT we are still not equal to a pure combat character. so we have been slightly un touched by the CU in terms of combat effectiveness compared to a pure combat character. Now in terms of FS skills yea i can't have alot but what full ranger can anyways?

However i do see a day when a Ranger is.......... Close to a PCC (pure combat char.) but not quite as effective in PvNPC and PVP. However we need to be NOTICABLY for effective in PvCreature than a PCC. that will make up for our shortcomeings in other areas of combat.

I also see that eventaually we can camo ourselves and others so that we drop of radar and from sight in pvp and otherwise (with a chance of it breaking) allowing us to sabatoge basedefences with the help of commandos or smugglers. Thus makeing our skills just as valuable as the next PCC in PvP.

Message Edited by Creaturetaimer on 04-17-2005 08:52 PM

Galik A. (main)- Master CH (Ret.) and Master Ranger, Master Bounty Hunter
Blowfin A. (craftbot with a soul)- Master BE and working on (Undecided)

"Once i handed a man a compass i was leaving in the woods alone to see if he could make it back to town. He told me "This compass doesn't work!!", and i replied "so?" "

Rcol

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:09 pm

#4

Creaturetaimer wrote:

Oculus wrote:
Before I decide, I want a promise by the Devs that we are going to receive melee and ranged defenses equal to the other combat professions.

We got the CL increase, and thanks for that, but load up any character builder and play around with master ranger + combat profession, then try with combat professions + any other combat/content profession (content being smuggler, bounty hunter, squad leader) and you'll notice what a disadvantage we're still at lacking any "general" skill mods.

Yea but you have to keep in mind that we have always been a lil underpowered compared to a pure combat character. A Tkm defence stacker has and will kick the crud out of me both before and after the CU (if he can find me with the new version of cover). so with the CU we are no longer gimped BUT we are still not equal to a pure combat character. so we have been slightly un touched by the CU in terms of combat effectiveness compared to a pure combat character. Now in terms of FS skills yea i can't have alot but what full ranger can anyways?

However i do see a day when a Ranger is.......... Close to a PCC (pure combat char.) but not quite as effective in PvNPC and PVP. However we need to be NOTICABLY for effective in PvCreature than a PCC. that will make up for our shortcomeings in other areas of combat.

I also see that eventaually we can camo ourselves and others so that we drop of radar and from sight in pvp and otherwise (with a chance of it breaking) allowing us to sabatoge basedefences with the help of commandos or smugglers. Thus makeing our skills just as valuable as the next PCC in PvP.

Message Edited by Creaturetaimer on 04-17-2005 08:52 PM

this is so nice i wanna cry

i am no a master ranger but i been a 0040 ranger for a long time now ... and i would be a master but i can just leave my pets...

what do u think they could do to imprube ranger

Rcol Waterwalker

Black Dogs

meat hide & Milk Hunter
- I support keeping & balancing the old combat system You can too

Creaturetaimer

Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:29 pm

#5

Rcol wrote:

Creaturetaimer wrote:

Oculus wrote:
Before I decide, I want a promise by the Devs that we are going to receive melee and ranged defenses equal to the other combat professions.

We got the CL increase, and thanks for that, but load up any character builder and play around with master ranger + combat profession, then try with combat professions + any other combat/content profession (content being smuggler, bounty hunter, squad leader) and you'll notice what a disadvantage we're still at lacking any "general" skill mods.

Yea but you have to keep in mind that we have always been a lil underpowered compared to a pure combat character. A Tkm defence stacker has and will kick the crud out of me both before and after the CU (if he can find me with the new version of cover). so with the CU we are no longer gimped BUT we are still not equal to a pure combat character. so we have been slightly un touched by the CU in terms of combat effectiveness compared to a pure combat character. Now in terms of FS skills yea i can't have alot but what full ranger can anyways?

However i do see a day when a Ranger is.......... Close to a PCC (pure combat char.) but not quite as effective in PvNPC and PVP. However we need to be NOTICABLY for effective in PvCreature than a PCC. that will make up for our shortcomeings in other areas of combat.

I also see that eventaually we can camo ourselves and others so that we drop of radar and from sight in pvp and otherwise (with a chance of it breaking) allowing us to sabatoge basedefences with the help of commandos or smugglers. Thus makeing our skills just as valuable as the next PCC in PvP.

Message Edited by Creaturetaimer on 04-17-2005 08:52 PM

this is so nice i wanna cry

i am no a master ranger but i been a 0040 ranger for a long time now ... and i would be a master but i can just leave my pets...

what do u think they could do to imprube ranger

Wow i wasn't expecting a quote off this one /thank

I think forstarters some melee and state defences due to our job. possably melee toughness /shrug due to the simple fact that we get pummeled by giant monsters.........ALOT and lets face it you get abit of a paintolorance from it over time.in terms of skill progression. General ranged/melee speed accuracy mods. Creature to hit applying to specials (a regular attack is a special anymore post cu anyway) aswell as applying to melee fighters. Possably Creature defences of some kind. makeing us a royal pain in the butfor a creature to take down. Poisen/Desease Resists ( i think doc and cm need to get this aswell). umm........ and various other stuff from various proposals that i have combed over with a fine tooted brush. (my fingers hurt to go into detail)

Message Edited by Creaturetaimer on 04-17-2005 09:31 PM

Galik A. (main)- Master CH (Ret.) and Master Ranger, Master Bounty Hunter
Blowfin A. (craftbot with a soul)- Master BE and working on (Undecided)

"Once i handed a man a compass i was leaving in the woods alone to see if he could make it back to town. He told me "This compass doesn't work!!", and i replied "so?" "

GwendaStar

Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:56 am

#6

i would say ranger would be more of a defense class for any other prof you might go. ranger is suppose to have a wide knowledge of animals and the area around them so why cant we use this to our advantage? ranger should have some dodge or block points or maybe defense because they know so much about animals youd think that would also me they would know how to block , dodge or counter the attacks of the animals..

Balrozgul

Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:12 am

#7

Yeah I was trying to avoid getting too detailed in the proposals over what we should get. We need to come to a consensus as to our place in the combat world before we start asking for specifics. The point is that if we get pushed towards the tank side we'll end up with a lot more defense mods, whereas if we go towards damage dealers we'll end up with weapon certs and their appropriate mods. Crowd control will lead to an improvement in traps and healing will lead to poison/disease resistances or natural type cures. The case could be made that we deserve a little of each but which one more than others? I think crowd control is the most obvious one to me but others might have a different opinion.

Bal Rozguul

(Proconsul of Sentinels of Banir)

Master Ranger ::: Master Pistoleer

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." : Qui-Gon Jinn

JBMat

Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:27 am

#8

I think Ranger should be the premier PvE class. Some skills will carry over into PvP, but primarily, we are PvE. (Those of you wanting PvP, go be a BH or Commando)

Any armor certs we get should be for armor that will protect us from creature attacks, primarily kinetic. We should get some offensive and defensive bonuses, but again, mainly against creatures. The argument that a great creature hunter will be an good man hunter is there, but can be disproven too easily - animals don't shoot back and the use of tactics by animals is limited. Yes, animals attack back, some with spitting attacks, but that is not shooting. Pack attacks are a social behavior, not a tactical choice.

We should be the premier harvestors in the game. We have that. We should be somewhat, but not totally, self sufficient. We shouldn't be exempt from grouping, but a smart Ranger doesn't need a group. No, we should not be soloing Krayts on a regular basis, but a smart Ranger - given enough time and tactics - will be able to once in a while.

Weapon certs. Nope. None, unless you are talking about a Ranger specific weapon, such as the bow or something like that. One of the appeals to Ranger is that any weapons class can go for Master. I am sick and tired hearing how Rifle/Ranger is the way to go. I can dispell that rumor really fast as I am a pistoleer and can drop many creatures faster than with a rifle, take no more damage than the rifleman, and I don't need a freaking tin can to harvest for me.

Traps for Rangers need a massive upgrade. The effects need to work, or be removed. We need more traps and the traps we have need to have AOEs. Think of Scout as your feeder class, like in a combat profession. You get a basic skill, then it gets improved upon. That is how traps need to be.

Camps need to be reworked in re: the modular design. This promotes interdependence and grouping. Remember, an HTFB is as good as a medcenter, and way cheaper than a med droid. We don't need to steal meds from the Medical lines, nor should we. We should get some resists to animals attacks, like poison and disease, but no ability to heal such. Our camps should be able to heal them though.

Our PvP role should be limited. We are not PvP. We cause too much HAM damage to be classed with those slackers. The average Ranger causes more HAM damage in a trip to the outhouse than most PvPers cause in a day.If PvP disappeared tomorrow, I would not shed a single tear. I want to be able to hunt and harvest as one of the best.

We don't fit in the profession schematic by the Ranger class. The schematic if you looked is mainly PvP, although many can argue that some PvE (NPCs mainly) fits. There should be another schematic for us.

JB

Owen-Lars

Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:49 am

#9

I think rangers should develope into a standalone class with skills orientated around combat and combat support.

On a personal level i dont see rangers as hunters, nor do i want them to focus on that direction with creature only/orientated skills as i think its far too limited.

Instead i would like to see more focus around general combat with skill and abilities that allows us to seamlessly progress between PvNPC, PvCreature and PvP combat. I dont want us to go all out pvp orientated but i do want a unique place in pvp and skill that will impact greatly on my template when it comes to pvp combat. Im not talking about super damaging skills etc but a set of skill that allow us to adopt a unique role.

So the first thing i would get rid of would be creature centricity. I would open up the doors to all combat arenas and focus around5 core areas:

Stealth

Intel Gathering

Pathfinding

Wilderness Tactics

Survival

All of these areas would be designed with combat in mind and will provide the player with skills that can aid them in combat and around the combat environment.

As i see it a ranger should be able to go out with a group or solo and not have to pick through the mobs to find a target they can be fully effective on. You should just be able to go out and regardless of your target be able to fight well. We should be good against creatures, but also against npcs. Our skills should be very effective against creatures but also against any other enemy we come across.

I was thinking more along the lines of this set-up:

Offense: 2

Defense: 3

Crowd Control: 4

Offense would focus around finding out and exposing enemy weaknesses, using traps and wilderness warfar to combat the opponenet, using ambushing tactics and effective extraction techniques to control when we get into combat and also our offensive capabilities.

Defense would be a combination of inate defensive mods and also combat enhancers

Crowd controlling would be our best role as we will be able to use traps to seperate and isolate enemies, take them out of combat for a duration and basically control the combat environment much more effectivelly.

Camps would also get a major overhaul. Instead of orientating just around survival i would like to see camps also provide combat bonuses. Depending on what camp you have out, you should gain certain benefits and so should your group. If anyone of you have played world of warcraft, think of these new camps as totems in many regards. Depending on what module you install whoever comes into range of the camp will be effected either by possitive effects or negative effects. Group members will gain possitives and enemies will gain negatives. Such bonuses as defensive bonuses, auto-snares, offensive enhancements, resists to certain effects and accuracy increases will all feature alongside a strong survival module set up including emergency shuttles, regeneration capabilities, auto healing and camo/stealth bonuses will all feature.

THORTAC BALCOR
The Lost Ranger
RANGER

Jolandir

Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:29 am

#10

Balrozgul wrote: "Rangers, the time has come to start taking our gains so far as a subtle hint of dev support for our profession and where it will lead post CU. Giving in to our requests for CL and health gains from our ranger skill boxes seems to indicate that they are willing to consider us to be a combat profession ..."

Balrozgul I think this is still a huge assumption. I would be cautious of assuming they are seeing us now as a combat profession. They have simply realized that without gaining CL and Health we were going to be severely limited in hunting. If we only got one enought health and cl class which came from one combat profession then basically it became clear (I know it should have been in the first place, but that is beside the point) that we could not fight medium to high level creatures effectively, not to mention the really rare very high level creatures. We would only have been useful in hunting low to possibly medium level creatures because our cl and health would not support say taking on Rancors, so they had to rethink at least that much of their position on Rangers.

So I would love to believe you are right, but I don't think they are yet in that place where we are seen as a combat profession or even as para-military as well as suburb hunters.

Jolandir

BioEngine

Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:51 am

#11

I think there needs to be a few changes made to foraging. It is almost useless, as is the continued modifier adding to this skill throughout the survival tree. We don't even forage a group of these items at Master Ranger.

Also, we need to have something done about fishing. Since Bio Engineers will be supplying all CMs and Docs, there needs to be a way to supply them more quickly than we can now. Perhaps a fishing harvest modifier.

We need more traps in the Ranger trapping line, we need to be able to experiment on Traps, and we need to be able to effectively use them against higher content creatures at Master Ranger, such as the Krayts and Kimogillas. There should be damage, quantityand effectiveness lines to experiment on traps with.

We need some more craftable items if we are to be considered as more than a creature-oriented combat class or a combat-support class.

Camp sites need to be more personalized. We should be able to create unique camps with different abilities or features that can be added onto the current ones. Camps need to be more useful than visually appealing.

Account active 'till November 10th, contact me on forum name:
Stamina

ZionHalcyon

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:38 am

#12

Some thoughts from a former Scout/0030 Ranger (soon to be a full Ranger for the CURB):

I think Ranger would fit best as sort of a "tweener" class in terms of Combat and the Rangery stuff (like camping, fishing, etc).

In terms of the layout, I would say a ranger should be most beneficial with crowd control, but only as pertains to animals. Likewise, more powerful traps would be welcome to help take down more dangerous mobs - it would be nice if people sought out rangers to join their group when they go out to hunt Kimogilas, or Krayts, or a Gorax, and it would be nice if Rangers got benefits as such.

Being a tweener class, I would like to see some weapons, but more geared towards animals, and in addition to traps. For instance, Weapons which not only do damage, but slow the rate of attack might be one way to go (think SW equivilent of a Tranq gun). Also, giving Rangers and Creature Handlers the ability to do combat specials while on animal mounts might also be a very nice addition (the difference being, CH mounts can also be trained for more advancedcombat).

In terms of combat, Ranger should be a support class, but also one that has a distinct advantage over the animals of SWG, so that is the role I see for them, in addition to what Ranger already is.

Z I O N U H A L C Y O N

J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:

and countless speederbikes and land speeders.

I love being a spy.

Balrozgul

Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:48 am

#13

Owen-Lars wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of this set-up:

Offense: 2

Defense: 3

Crowd Control: 4

Thanks Owen thats exactly along the lines that I was thinking of.

Bal Rozguul

(Proconsul of Sentinels of Banir)

Master Ranger ::: Master Pistoleer

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent." : Qui-Gon Jinn

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Thread: POST CU: RANGER DIRECTION