CUEmu - Thread Posts

Flynn_Nomad

Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:30 pm

Wythelpull wrote:

Forgive me if this topic has already been beaten to death or addressed. I don't spend very time in forums as I'd rather be playing the game.

Non-citizens can be problematic for cities. In Athens, Correlia, Ahazi, I estimate that fully 1/4 to 1/3 of my population are non-citizens. Unfortunately, I can't get an accurate number because the game gives me no way to track them.

This proposal breaks down into two categories. The first is giving a "non-citizen" report from the city management terminal. This would at least allow me as Mayor to know who they are...

The second part is simply allowing for a dual tax structure, one for citizens one for non-citizens. I think this would give Mayors the ability to easily moderate the amount of non-citizens simply by adjusting the taxes for them. For instance, if a foreign merchant wanted to setup a tent or store in my town but didnt want to register, I could set the tax structure up so that they pay additional taxes over my citizens. This not only gives a benefit to the local merchants, but also would help to regulate the amount non-citizens in a city.

Thoughts?

Mayor Devon

The City of Athens, Ahazi

These forums are invaluable information that will help you get more out of your playing time.

How did those citizens get there? Sorry I'm confused.

Were they in your radius before you dropped city hall? Now they are part of the city like it or not?

--------------------------------------------
Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've
seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.

Wythelpull

Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:49 pm

#2

some were part of the radius within city hall as the city grew, others are new citizens that "undeclared", and other are people wanting to move into town but not declare residence. I know other mayor's are having similar problems so I thought I'd post this to see if anyone else thought it made sense.

Personally, as long as I can keep my city population high enough I don't mind having non-residents within city boundaries. However, it would be nice to have an instant additional 20 or 30 people listed as "residents" just by figuring out who they are so I can get them registered again...

Flynn_Nomad

Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:13 pm

#3

You are so right, I cant stand when I drop a house for someone and they forget to declare residence and go afk for 2 weeks...

What about proposing if the mayor drops a house for the person, the mayor gets a command following /transferstructure that automatically declares the recipient a citizen...

There would be no greifing or tricking people because they would still have the option to undeclare.

BUT with the undeclare you get a warning kinda like harvestor destruction so people don't do it accidently or as a reminder.

AND when you undeclare you STILL get TAXED on your property and such, as an incentive to pick it up and move.

The only problem with that would be if the city assimilates a house, it would greif the existing home and resident.

Therefore, if you dont join the city (the city joins you, lol) you don't get that tax penalty.

Anyone care to expand this idea?

--------------------------------------------
Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've
seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me
believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's
no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.

Akaara

Fri Mar 19, 2004 7:54 pm

#4

That is a great idea. I also think it would be good to be able to tax non-declared citizens.

_____Chiana_________________________
JEDI ELDERCL 90

Sying ~ Master Entertainer
Nikeesha YMaster Tailor

Kerico

Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:15 pm

#5

What aboutpeople who were there before you dropped the city hall? They can be 'regulated' (as I read it, taxed to death)with a seperate tax from other citizens just because you put a city within 450m of thier home?

Sorry, playing the devil's advocate here, but I foresee griefing potential with this and as evidenced by the /citywarn... were potential for griefing exists, griefing will quickly follow.

Hvzeda

Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:50 pm

#6

Kerico wrote:

What aboutpeople who were there before you dropped the city hall? They can be 'regulated' (as I read it, taxed to death)with a seperate tax from other citizens just because you put a city within 450m of thier home?

Sorry, playing the devil's advocate here, but I foresee griefing potential with this and as evidenced by the /citywarn... were potential for griefing exists, griefing will quickly follow.

Taxes are applied equally to all structures (this is the only tax that can affect non-residents). This is know as property tax. Shuttlefee affects anyone that purchases a ticket at your shuttleport. Sales tax is applied to any sales done on vendor (and not all taxes are collected and placed in the city treasury - bug). Income tax (or wealth tax) is applied to only citizens, not non-residents (if I'm wrong on this, correct me). That is all the taxes available for mayors. There is no separate tax for non-residents. So there is no griefing.

A mayor's job is to talk those people into becoming citizens. Why? Experience. Only way a mayor makes experience is by votes. From my talks with legitimate mayors, not one has decided to plop down a city hall to grief other players. Most grief has come from players griefing a city by placing as many harvestors around the perimeter of a city so that when it grows, it will lose valuable real estate for their city.

In addition, if these new citizens don't want to be in the city they could become citizens and have someone run against the incumbent and vote him/her out.

Kyrie
I came into the SWG universe as an entertainer
and performed to a crowded cantina in Mos Espa.
I will use a respec and become an entertainer again,
pull out my last pet from my creature handler days
and dance in an empty cantina in Mos Espa and disconnect from the game forever.

Wythelpull

Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:45 am

#7

Forgive me if this topic has already been beaten to death or addressed. I don't spend very time in forums as I'd rather be playing the game.

Non-citizens can be problematic for cities. In Athens, Correlia, Ahazi, I estimate that fully 1/4 to 1/3 of my population are non-citizens. Unfortunately, I can't get an accurate number because the game gives me no way to track them.

This proposal breaks down into two categories. The first is giving a "non-citizen" report from the city management terminal. This would at least allow me as Mayor to know who they are...

The second part is simply allowing for a dual tax structure, one for citizens one for non-citizens. I think this would give Mayors the ability to easily moderate the amount of non-citizens simply by adjusting the taxes for them. For instance, if a foreign merchant wanted to setup a tent or store in my town but didnt want to register, I could set the tax structure up so that they pay additional taxes over my citizens. This not only gives a benefit to the local merchants, but also would help to regulate the amount non-citizens in a city.

Thoughts?

Mayor Devon

The City of Athens, Ahazi

Wythelpull

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:50 am

#8

Believe me when I say I'm not out to grief anyone. The city I am mayor of has assimilated many people and I've done everything I can to accomodate them without requiring that they become citizens (even though there is no tax on the city so they have nothing to lose by becoming citizens anyway). However...

1. I have no way to see who the non-residents are in the city. Without knowing who is out there, I have no way to know who they are so I can't even contact them to ask if they want to join or try to convince them to. This was my first suggestion and the one nobody seems to have seen. :-)

2. People living in a city that are not citizens still get the full benefits of being a resident, only that the city gains nothing from them living there. They get the convenience of the shuttle port, mission terminals, trainers, cantina, hospital, research center, etc. However, in return, the city does not get to include them as a "resident". In fact, people who move into town and then undeclare citizenship or refuse to register as citizens can be considered griefers of a sort as they are mooching off the money and work of others.

The idea of a dual tax structure goes beyond arm twisting non-residents into declaring residence by the way. It also gives mayors the ability to attract non-residents to their city who may wish to setup shop. For instance, let's say my city is low on merchants and I want to let non-citizen merchants setup shops in my city. Instead of losing real estate to more non-residents, I can simply give them a slightly higher tax rate. This way they can get the benefits of participating within the city, not have to declare, and the city still gets something back in return. We lose the "vote" but gain additional revenue. This additional revenue can then be used to either make the city better, or to lower the tax rates on the citizens.

Can taxes be used for griefing? Yes, we already see that in game now. However, the players of the city do have the option to vote the mayor out if they don't like the mayor's performance.

Alternatively, I think it would be acceptable to get citizen credits of some sort for the non-citizen residents. After all, they do live there why shouldn't a city be able to count them as residents with or without taxes?

Thornstar

Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:54 pm

#9

/evilmayor : I say when citywarn comes back, set the militia onto them. It will be funny, they will uproot their house really really fast, or declare residence even faster. muhahahahah MUAHHAHAHA.

This is a multiplayer game, they cant expect toplay the game without being affected directly by the actions of others, if someoen places a city and takes up their house, tough. its like complaining about being banned from someones house, its not their house, its really sony's house, the same as the city is really sony's city.

being a citizen of a city should offer something more than just having a house there. In my city all citizens get to place a vendor in the city mall. If you dont declare, you dont get a vendor. Ofcourse they can then declare, place a vendor and then undeclare. but that wont stop me from going to the admin terminal of the mall and banning their arse from the mall, leaving their items stuck in the mall where they cant get to them untill they declare again and then have the opportunity to remove them.

I have banned someone who still has a vendor in the mall because not only did they leave the city, they also added mucho maintenance to their empty vendors to greif the city mall. So ive banned them so they cant add more maintenance. This was 6 weeks ago, their vendors are sitll in the mall and there is not a thing i can do about it, yet I am mayor of this city, and I am owner of this mall, It will take way too long to get everyone to remove their vendor so I can delete the mall and replace it. It would cost the city, and its merchants millions of lost credits.

Kdr_Kane

Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:08 pm

#10

And the reason for having a tax on non-citizens is because mayors need control over their city. It is insufficient to allow griefers to place structures in the city and undeclare residency without paying a price.

Non-citizens can be banned from city structures, true. But, all it does not make them pay for the privilege of having a structure with vendors within the city limits.

Kdr_Kane

Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:36 am

#11

Totally agree,

Dual tax. One for citizens and one for non-citizens.

Songe

Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:50 am

#12

/agree too. I don't have any tax for my citizens but I want to be able to tax non citizens, which can't be done with the property tax as it would also affect the citizens.

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Novice Lekku Stomper

Politician Archive

Thread: Proposed solution for non-citizens in cities