Politician Archive

ok, so as i'm learning more about how elections will work, i'm rather dismayed to see that only people who own houses are going to be able to vote. societies are never nor should they ever reflect the landowners without also taking into account the rest of the populace.

instead of going through the trouble of having different political systems (a la civilization 3) i think there should be a different registration system for voters. instead of it being anyone with a declared residence, there should be the ability for a player to register with a city hall. you could only register with one city hall, and then that is the riding in which you vote. that way it more closely reflects a real society, in which not just the landowning class is able to vote.

thoughts?

Good Point!! but I dont think it should change, to much room for swing votes

My feeling is this,

I own property and live within a city. I should have to right to vote forwhatever politcian that's runningfor office.Why? Because I have an investment within the limits of the city. I wouldn't want an outsider, with no investment in the city's building or future, to vote for someone. They aren't paying the taxes...so they shouldn't get a vote.

You wouldn't want another country voting in your president... Would you?

i think the fact that you could only register with one city hall would prevent swing votes. similarly it would foster civic responsibility amongst non home owning players. there are lots of reasons to not own a home, and to share homes, and the terrain is such, that it would be great if we could have more city residents than there were buildings.

to compensate, residents without a home could pay alternative types of taxes, such as sales tax on vendors they place in open markets, or even just a tax to be part of the city, paid at city hall when registering to vote and so on. this way these non landowning residents can feel a sense of place and committment to the city.

my alterior motive of course is to help expediate the means by which politician xp is gained. the more voters, the more xp. if we limit voters to home owners only, we are severly limiting the grown of the profession, and the vibrancy of player cities.

again, i see these voters as being part of the city, not as foreigners, or outsiders. i think it would be a way to make the electoral system more inclusive, which would mean more fun imho.

Allowing people who don't own houses within the city to vote opens the city up for all sorts of griefing.

How easy would it be for an outside group to swarm in and perform a hostile take over of the city you worked so hard to create.

There is no way allowing people to just register to vote would work.

you could have registration, where a mayor or militia has to approve each new city resident. that would help filter out mobs from overtaking a small outpost.

at the same time, the purpose of a militia is to protect the city via /ban and other commands. this should be enough to protect the political regime. if for whatever reason a large group of people decided they wanted to change the political regime, they should have the ability to do so. history is filled with examples of landless peasants and workers rising up against the landowning class and taking over society. america is an excellent example in which the landowning and the landless worked together to found what is considered by some as a great nation.

OK take this example. My Rebel PA walks into a mainly Imperial city which happens to have obtained Metropolis with many civic buildings. Our entire membership registers to vote in the city that we have no investment in.

Next election we get our puppet mayor elected he then destroys the City Hall. We walk away leaving the city in ruin.

The civic structures will be lost before the residents ever get the city to the proper level again since they can only advance one city level at a time.

Not that my PA would ever do that but when it comes to stuff like this you have to think like the nastiest individual in the game. Someone would do it, trust me.

your example is proof to me why registration instead of residency makes for better player cities. the scenario you describe makes for the role of militia to be that much more meaningful, as well as the role of the GCW in player cities that much more effective. if a group/clan does what you describe than that should be part of the GCW and should motiviate other people in the game to organize against such tyranny. i'm not saying it should be super easy to register as a resident, and certainly, the rebels you describe would have to be homeless to begin with, otherwise they would have to give up their own player city to take over another. so i really don't see this as an argument against registration.

my only thoughts on this would be the artisans with all their lots full with harvestors and such. My friend is a master architect and she is not only using all her 10 lots but 4 of mine to collect the goods she needs to run her business. I put up 2 more of my lots for a medium house for us to share, she put down vendors and it became our mall. It's my registered home but she doesn't have. She contributes just as much as I do to the community but doesn't have the means to place a house to get a vote without cutting into some of her business.

I think a registration with the city hall needing approval with the mayor would help people like this and the hunters that honestly don't have much of a use for a building but like to come back to his guild's little city to shop or whatever.

People should not be able to walk into a city and vote. People should be able to apply for citizenship to a city with a registration fee. Then they would be added to the income tax pot as well.

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Laotan2 wrote:

ok, so as i'm learning more about how elections will work, i'm rather dismayed to see that only people who own houses are going to be able to vote. societies are never nor should they ever reflect the landowners without also taking into account the rest of the populace.

instead of going through the trouble of having different political systems (a la civilization 3) i think there should be a different registration system for voters. instead of it being anyone with a declared residence, there should be the ability for a player to register with a city hall. you could only register with one city hall, and then that is the riding in which you vote. that way it more closely reflects a real society, in which not just the landowning class is able to vote.

thoughts?

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Non land owner = non tax payer.

So essentially you want to have you cake and eat it too, also known as representation without taxation.

Ask the U.S. Government if you can refuse to pay your taxes and still vote, lemme know what answer they give you.

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Goldy_Lhim wrote:

my only thoughts on this would be the artisans with all their lots full with harvestors and such. My friend is a master architect and she is not only using all her 10 lots but 4 of mine to collect the goods she needs to run her business. I put up 2 more of my lots for a medium house for us to share, she put down vendors and it became our mall. It's my registered home but she doesn't have. She contributes just as much as I do to the community but doesn't have the means to place a house to get a vote without cutting into some of her business.

I think a registration with the city hall needing approval with the mayor would help people like this and the hunters that honestly don't have much of a use for a building but like to come back to his guild's little city to shop or whatever.

People should not be able to walk into a city and vote. People should be able to apply for citizenship to a city with a registration fee. Then they would be added to the income tax pot as well.

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Interesting thoughts and these whole thread addresses part of the system that is SWG - that is, "You can't have it all".

Your architect friend may need to give up some harvester lots to become a citizen. Instead she will need to pay others to collect the shortfall of resources. It's her call.

Personally, I like this aspect of the game...

i did not say that non landowners would not have to pay tax. i think all citizens in a city should pay some form of tax. my argument is that they should all have a chance to participate, even if they donot own a house.

the example of the artisan who has to use all their lots for harvesting, and shares residence with someone else, is perfect. i know a lot of people who put their vendors in a friend's house, and use their own lots to gather resources.

I wouldnt mind this system if it was implemented properly.

Half of my members share houses and really dont want to own there own, if they could register in ONE city, that'd be great!

Also, you could make it so that people could register to vote, but the mayor still has to approve everyone who registers and doesnt own a declared property, sort of like a PA.