Politician Archive

Thread: Cities Good or Bad? What is the Politicians perspective

Serraphin
Tue Jun 29, 2004 1:57 pm
#1

As a citizen of a player city I have found them to be neither good nor bad in general. My experience is that most of the people I know live in a city because someone who wanted to play politician needed bodies. 90% or more of the players cities I have seen are simply empty shells. They have vendors that usually are empty or infrequently visited. In fact, I think it fair to say that without shuttles creating convenient travel points cities would be rare. Most of the best vendors I have come across work hard not to live in a player city or to be associated with one.


What are some of your experiences?
DaQuilla
Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:10 pm
#2

We had a time in which a lot of our vendors on the market place also where more and more empty ... but we got 2 malls running with rather good quality at exepctional prices ... and if sales tax wasn't bugged ... the city would be able to make a lot of profit from this instead of paying and paying


Well another positiv side to PCs next to the shuttle is the specialisation. Especialy "Research Center" for better crafting is a favorite, but some PvP oriented towns also like the "Stronghold" option ...


Then of course you can clone next to your house ... you have a bank account for an extra 100 items nearby and you can use the mission terminals better (simply take a mission that leads to the neares other PC, so there you can take one back to the first PC => only half as much running as with NPC cities )


And of course, the PC Cantinas are perfect magnets for special RP groups.



Kheraba City - . - . - . - . - M a y o r - . - . - . - . - . - . - Etraes'Khar
A place to call your home - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - Many are called, few are chosen
- Where they play that Jizzz - The Green Fizz - Player Cantina Snacks&Drinks

- Tatooine - -3230 -6150 - Gorath Galaxy

Mkappus
Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:41 pm
#3

I think cities are good, but they will almost never be bustling. Most players I know return home each night and log from town. The cantina is a meeting place for buffs before raids or hunts. We have put in 2 faction bases in town, and during vulnerability time we have huge crowds defending the bases, and often crowds wanting to take them out.


We have 2 cantinas, I think a third may be coming soon. We have a mall with over 15 vendors, as well as 3 other large crafters/miners selling large quantities of items. I like the gardens and the ability to decorate town.


Hospitals seem to be a waste. No one ever goes in them, docs just pull out their droids wherever they are. I think they need to add some kind of automated healing bot that can only be in hospitals and can pre-charge for healing. The hospital owner has to stock the bot, and get the cash for the heals. Right now there is no point to hospitals.


Right now all the high end content is out in dungeons or adventure planets. I don't know anyone who runs missions anymore. Except maybe Janta missions on Dantooine for the 30k payout. So there isn't much of a reason to be in town, other than to gear up, buff up, or shop for a few minutes.



Goliath
Master Shipwright, Master Architect, Master Artisan
-=V=- Shipworks 3 Locations Theed, Coronet and
Tatooine by Krayt Graveyard 5909, 4373

3 vendors at GF6 11/11 - Shipwright, Architect, Resources
BT-Trajan
Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:42 am
#4

Aurora is a great Player city. It is a community where several Player Associations have made their home. The groups of players are always coming and going from town. May groups form up in town and run missions from the terminals in the city. Or they all jump the shuttle and head off to a more difficult planet. We keep entertainers and auto-buffing doctors in the town for people to use as well as well stocked vendors. The occasional party or city-wide hunt helps build a greater sense of community. I love the resulting communitity that has developed and am happy to be a part of it.



Hadrian Augustus
Mayor and Master Architect of Aurora
Naboo, Flurry Server


Catapultam habeo.
Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Translation: I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
bradimere
Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:48 pm
#5

I hardly ever leave our town , other then to survey, and harvest resources. other then that, im a home body constanly crafting. (armor smith, tailor, BE. chef, politician) (i have 4 accounts atm and only 1 is a tank type. (cm/pistoleer)
RM706
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:34 pm
#6

Cities are AWESOME! So much interaction in working for a common goal...to better the city.



-DaKK
Imaridril
Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:06 am
#7


While its true that some cities have a lot of activity, I think most players would agree that the vast majority of cities are pretty much ghost towns that are no more populated than the unofficial settlements were prior to the introduction of player cities. Here's some reason why I think player cities haven't turned out all that great...


Server lot trades - The reason so many cities are literaly ghost towns is because they are mainly filled with ghost citizens. There are a fair number of mayors who saw the introduction of player cities not as a means of building communities, but more of a means to play SimCity in the SWG game enviroment. This isn't that big of deal on the secondary planets where there are still open city slots, however on the three primary planets, these lot swap cities quickly filled up all the avaiable city slots. What's even worse is that now some of these SimCity inspired mayors, who have now grown board with their city and want to hand over the reigns to someone else, arefinding it impossible to do so due to the way that automatic voting works.


Not allowingthe lowest rankcities to have a shuttleport- Back when player cities were first being introduced, a lot of people pointed out that if the Devs wanted player cities to be build in good locations than the Devs should make it much easier to get a shuttle port. For example, I'm sure on most servers there is a city up near the Krayt Graveyard, and due to the high amount of traffic that is always heading in and out of the graveyard, there is always a lot of activity in this city. Sadly, the Devs didn't listen, and as a consequense, a lotof the original player cities were put within easy walking distance of the NPC cities. (Remember, back when player cities were first implimented, we didn't yet have speeders to get around on.) For example, on my server there is a huge mass of cities between Bestine and Wayfar, and almost all of them have turned into ghost towns. In the age before speeders, there was a lot of foot traffic along this route, however as soon as vehicles were introduced, and especially as soon as the farthest city along the chain got a shuttleport, virtually all traffic along the route dried up.


The inability to modify terrain - This is another contributing factor that has led to cities being placed in poor locations. Rather than having cities placed near prime travelling focal points, players have been forced to search high and low for an out of the way flat piece of terrain that is large enough to hold the planned city. Once again this has resulted in cities being placed in places where players don't go.


Lack of player starports - There's a reason everyone hangs around the NPC cities, and that's because everyone hates waiting for shuttles when they want to head out to one of the adventure planets. Heading out to a player city to do some shopping, or just to do some looking around, can be a relatively big time sink. Especially since shuttle times aren't synced. In fact, on the average outing to a player city to look for some goods to buy, I'd say that more time is spent waiting for shuttles than actually shopping. This is compounded by the massive amount of empty vendors that make shopping such a crap shoot anyways.


Lack of high level content on the three starter planets - As I said ealier, most servers have a fairly active city located near the Krayt Graveyard, and back before the Death Spawn Cycle was nerfed at Fort Tusken, I'm guessing that most servers had a fairly active city near that locale, too. However, besides these few exceptions,there is pretty much no reason for high end players to ever go out hunting on the starter planets, and thus there's no reason to ever use one of the player cities on these three planets as a staging point for a hunt. I think this also explains why on most servers Dantooine is so heavily populated. Just like in the real world, people like to live near where they work.


Lack of city involvement in the GCW - If cities were able to declare to a faction, and architects were able to build attackable faction related structures that could be used to turn a city into a true stronghold, then I think you'd see the PvP crowd putting cities to much more uses.


Cities for the most part are just plain ugly - There needs to be more building types available, more decorations, the ability to put buildings at odd angles, the ability to put down roads or to pave the terrain, and the ability to add walls. The devs also need to find a way to improve the game engine so that it is able torender player cities from a greater distance away. I understand that bandwidth limitations restrict how close a player has to be to a player city before the server can start sending him information on the buildings, however that's no excuse for having the building despawn so quickly. There should be a slider in the options menu that lets a player determine how long his client will continue to render a building that it knows to be there, even though the player has now moved far enough away that the server is no longer sending him actual data on that building. This would allow players to take in the full granduer of player cities without actually putting any more strain on the server.


Making the Politician proffession cost skill points - For a city to be successfull, it needs a good leader, however leadership is not a skill that can be learned simply by putting points into a skill tree. In a sense, leadership can be thought of as a "twitch" skill. You either have it or you don't. By making it take skill points to become a politician, the Devs have created a situation were mayors can be broken down into two groups.Group one, which is quite large, are those mayors who are not interested in being leaders and are insteadinterested only in creating a solo SimCity type situation. The other group are those who have real life leadership skills, and have simply set up an alt character as the mayor of thier PA's city, though the only time they ever actually log in as this mayor is when they need to do some city administration. The problem is, not everyone who has natural leadership skills has a second account to play with. If the skill point cost for Politician was removed, I think you'd see a lot more of these natural leaders jumping into the politcal forum and eventually driving out the "SimCity" mayors.





Master Pilot - Adonis Overstar
Pre-NGE Weaponsmith/Armorsmith - Ulrech Overstar

KSE Firespray: Baphomet

DarthRyo
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:24 pm
#8

PCs are great indeed, it's cool to have somewhere you can call home, a settlement you made yourself with your paople...


yes it's very expensive, especially some spec...

cities aren't so usefull in comparaison with NPC cities, above all when you don't have a shuttle (thx to rank cap), but in a RP point of view, it's definitly a perk.


now i wish all bugs could be fixed and all peoples who are still working hard for their cities could see their effort rewarded with an unbugged city



Darsth Ryô
Leader of GOTH
(Glory of the Hunt)

Naboo, Eclipse
Kiaria
Fri Jul 02, 2004 8:50 am
#9

I think it depends on the purpose and location of your city....I agree there are a lot of ghost towns. Our city is based around our PA and we have events in the city 2 or 3 times a week, for example tonight is our weekly Friday Night Fight dueling tournie. We have vendors and plans for a mall, there are always people there.


We are still growing, currently level 2, waiting for level 3 update (hit planet cap). Almost all of our citizens are active players and we don't have any cross server lot trades. We aren't trying to grow quickly....we are taking our time to find long term citizens who are active players.





    Saira Adi @>---- Pink Warmaster
      Kiaria Redstorm -- Master Doc/Cm
        Mayra -- Level 1 Crafter
Fneegan
Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:07 am
#10

Being formerly a citizen and now a mayor, I think PC (Player Cities) are a great place to develope a community, friendships and help new players into the game. A miniture version of the biggergame.


But, I find cities difficult in that they are:

+ expensive to maintain

+ require a tremendous amount ofwork in recruiting as PC are always losing citizens for a number of reasons, making the population level rise and drop, with the possibility of losing (for example) a shuttleport.

+ it's difficult for mayor to resign


With these constraints, it's much easier just being a citizen - than a mayor.

As for sales, it's restricted to thecity citizenships first,and it depends on how populated the city, the planet and the number of off planet sales. I also have 2 vendors. The vedor in mycity contains, lower priced,more affordable items geared to the newer user (with little money). I'm not going toput 20Heavy harvesters in there.


As for my other vendor, it'sina commercial capital where sales are exploding and I provide higher priced items to more advanced players who have the money.


Pros and Cons of it all - I'm in favor of PC. Ijust think - there's a few things that can be done to make it better.

Mayor_Woosh
Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:29 am
#11

My biggest gripe is the following:


1) I think as soon as you can train Fiscal Policy 1 (which allows you to register your city) you should be able to have your city on the world map. Its absurd that one can train the ability to do so for 1000 political xp, but yet you must be a township to make use of it.


One of the ways a new PC can grow is to be on the world map. When a prospective resident opens the world map in search of cities and does not see yours thats a problem. In the very least this should be allowed at village status.











ä WOOSHå
| Master Chef (12 pt) | The Tarquinas Emeril |
SWG: Brilliant, groundbreaking, unfinished and ultimately a painfully missed opportunity.
BT-Trajan
Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:07 am
#12

I am ever hopeful that the politician line of skills will get a refocusing and some approriate skills such as better budgeting tools, more specializations, some methods for generating city-based GCW or non-GCW content and a means through which the may can better manage the structures within the city.


All of them are pipe-dreams, but as a Mayor, it is in my jobdescription somewhere that I have to dream up new ways to build my community.



Hadrian Augustus
Mayor and Master Architect of Aurora
Naboo, Flurry Server


Catapultam habeo.
Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

Translation: I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
Jaspor
Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:31 am
#13

I like cities!


But yeah, there are a few things that could be improved...


Someone touched on the fact that they are expensive to maintain. And they are... However, when your city gets to a certain size and you fix your taxes a certain way, there's no reason a city shouldn't be able to support itself simply on taxes. Oh wait, yes there is one reason... taxes are frickin bugged! They do NOT always go into the city treasury as they should!Ugh, that kills me.


The other main observation I'd like to make about cities is that when a city's population dwindles and they begin to die out, often the citizens and the Mayor have too much pride to admit defeat and try and merge with another thriving city. While I can definitely see the viewpoint that they worked hard for their city and don't want to just "give up" on it, sometimes joining with another city can be a wonderful thing for both sides!


Oh, and lastly, a word on recruiting... Yes, it's a challenge to find new citizens to replace the ones you'll inevitably lose. And offering incentives for people to move in (providing thehouse for them, for example) can and will be abused (people moving in, then redeeding the house and leaving the following day). I think the key to successful recruiting is to have a handful of trusthworthy citizens who have a lot of outside interaction a lot to be unofficial "recruiters". Now, they don't go around spamming everybody and everywhere about how great the city is. Simply, when they meet someone new who they have a good experience with (whether it be in a hunting group or a business transaction) they invite them to check out the city, and mention we're always on the lookout for new citizens. You'd be surprised how many new citizens we get in this simple (and not overly aggressive) way.


What I'm really looking forward to are those mysterious "city missions" we keep hearing about, and hopefully starports with the Space Expansion! I can always dream, can't I?




Jaspor
Master Politician / Master Smuggler / Master Pistoleer
Imperial Colonel / Imperial Pilot Ace
Guildmaster of Guild of the Zodiac - Constellation, Naboo


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