Politician Archive

I am an aspiring Mayor :-), I would love to have the chance to be a Mayor and have the chance to be given the boot.

I tried the Outpost method and frankly in his advanced age of SWG not many are willing to even talk to a Mayor of a town unless they have a shuttlepport or are really close to one..if you are in the sticks, you better have a big PA behind you is what it boils down or you have to settle in someone elses town if you want services. (not to mention XP comes in dribbles this way..and of course if they Mayor of a new city doesnt have the skill to place the cool stuff, then people dont want to live there)

It really skews things in favor of incumbent mayors, as the only way for a novice politician in a small PA to advance in a reasonable period of time is to challenge andwin the Mayorship from an established city. large # of votes and incumbent XP is what you need. having 10 votes every 3 weeks means a long long long way to go to get anything anyone wants in a city, and the independent city will likely die before it can hit rank 2

and not every town will tolerate a challengers even if it is just to gain Political XP..merely having a new name listed on the polls seems to raise hackles.

Its a helluva thing to overcome

If you dont mind me asking, why should another PA not be allowed voting rights in a city they support with their presence? Their presence bolsters the citizen count at minimum(its just my opinion but it seems like it would be a poor choice for an active PA to live in a city that would deny it voting rights)

cases where I can see denying it to be OK

1. Imperial PA runs the town, it makes sense for Imperials to not allow democracy in a RP sense

2. Town is setup as a 'military base', stronghold, that kind of thing

But to deny voting rights in a civilian, Rebel led town, well that just doesnt make sense to me..how players who are members of the ALLIANCE TO RESTORE THE REPUBLIC (see websters definition of REPUBLIC) can have problems with elections is beyond me.

If a incumbent Mayor has some kind of RP reason for not wanting contenders for the top spot, they should say so upfront when recruiting for their city. Mayors , when spamming for new citizens should say

'Wanted, new citizens ,reb and neutral, must not challenge current mayor because he cant handle it' you know what I mean?

Its not like a PA where the PA leader can turn off elections and its not supposed to be

Message Edited by Kinshi on 07-19-2005 05:13 PM

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Kinshi wrote:

Cities become community property fast, as soon as other people starting paying your taxes, they earned a say (and I still say running a city on donations alone is a cop out, should only do donations when there is no other choice). The Mayor is there to serve the citizens, not the other way around, thus a Mayor should have to justify their continued presence in the top slot (and do something besides live for free in City Hall)

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ok, in r/l, you become Mayor, do you then own the city? if you hold the office 10 years say, does that make the city your personal property and the office you sit in belong to you?

Of course not, so why do people insist on treating SWG cities like its their personal property? If you want a guild only city, fine, only allow PA members to live there, but if you run a city and are recruiting people from the outside, why on Earth would you expect to never have challengers let alone get mad over the fact you have challengers?

I would think winning a contested election would be a major acheivement for a SWG Politician..any Joe Schmo can log in alts and get a few friends to vote for them and call it good..but to actually have a rank 4/5 multi guild city and WIN an open, honest,election, that you actually had to work for? well to me that would be something and the election itself should be something Politicans should be eager for , not get pissy about.

Cities become community property fast, as soon as other people starting paying your taxes, they earned a say (and I still say running a city on donations alone is a cop out, should only do donations when there is no other choice). The Mayor is there to serve the citizens, not the other way around, thus a Mayor should have to justify their continued presence in the top slot (and do something besides live for free in City Hall)

I think its outright unfair to recruit people into a city knowing that you dont want challengers for Mayor, especially knowing full well that they can run wether you want them to or not (it makes me think of the pathetic Mayors who delete city hall rather than face losing an election)

There are some cold hard facts of SWG poltics an existing Mayor must understand and accept

1. On certain planets, cities can no longer grow due to planetary caps. SO telling a prospective Mayor to go found a new city isnt going to happen because of that fact.

2. The prime building space, even on the less populated planets is taken, and there is a distinct shortage of players to fill them (the sheer # of rank 4/5 cities that are devoid of players gives evidence to that)..and why make more potential dead cities?

3. So even if a new Mayor founds his own city, where are the citizens going to come from? From YOUR city most likely because now the competition is on for the limited # of new citizens.

4. Why would a PA move to a existing city and put up with not being given a say in how the city is run?..many MAyors seem to think only of how to get the next ranking but dont think about what it means to have different PAs in the town.

SO what this means if a Mayor wanna be wants to be able to get REAL XP, they MUST challenge for an existing city..there is NO OTHER WAY..you will NOT get Master Politician wunning an outpost, not unless yo are willing to wait nearly 2 r/l years!!!

And this is BY DESIGN...SOE did NOT give existing mayors a 'mayor for life' mandate. They engineered a system where the best Politcial XP comes from WINNING ELECTIONS, and the prime 'content' is established lvl 4/5 cities. Guess what Mayors..that means you cant sit back and me mayor 'just because'. You gotta get out and justify yourselves to an electorate.

And as a member of the Politician profession, you should be salivating at the chance to win real elections, to have real people think you are the right being for the job. as such, you should welcome contenters with open arms, and relish the chance to hold your office by actually winning real elections..thats what its all about!

But to get all pissy and weird about it? thats not cool at all..if you are an incumbent, and you did a good job with the city, you should have nothing to worry about, you will get relected and it will validate your claim to the top spot, but you had better expect to be challenged, to have to justify your descisons and explain your actions and do so in a civil manner.

I dont pay for all mine now but i did for a long time. A years worth of paying full taxes you are darn right I would be mad if somebody tried to take my position. I have put a lot into the city and I would only want somebody to take my spot that is willing to do the same.

I have only been contested once and the city citizens rose up and i won by a lot. I won because people know what i do for the city and that I am there for them. I dont think of the city as mine but I want full responsibility as the care taker. That is what I think of myself. I am the care taker of the city. Even if we are level four size with level three ranking. Stupid non active cities taking up my space..........

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Kinshi wrote:

I am an aspiring Mayor :-), I would love to have the chance to be a Mayor and have the chance to be given the boot.

I tried the Outpost method and frankly in his advanced age of SWG not many are willing to even talk to a Mayor of a town unless they have a shuttlepport or are really close to one..if you are in the sticks, you better have a big PA behind you is what it boils down or you have to settle in someone elses town if you want services. (not to mention XP comes in dribbles this way..and of course if they Mayor of a new city doesnt have the skill to place the cool stuff, then people dont want to live there)

It really skews things in favor of incumbent mayors, as the only way for a novice politician in a small PA to advance in a reasonable period of time is to challenge and win the Mayorship from an established city. large # of votes and incumbent XP is what you need. having 10 votes every 3 weeks means a long long long way to go to get anything anyone wants in a city, and the independent city will likely die before it can hit rank 2

and not every town will tolerate a challengers even if it is just to gain Political XP..merely having a new name listed on the polls seems to raise hackles.

Its a helluva thing to overcome

If you dont mind me asking, why should another PA not be allowed voting rights in a city they support with their presence? Their presence bolsters the citizen count at minimum (its just my opinion but it seems like it would be a poor choice for an active PA to live in a city that would deny it voting rights)

cases where I can see denying it to be OK

1. Imperial PA runs the town, it makes sense for Imperials to not allow democracy in a RP sense

2. Town is setup as a 'military base', stronghold, that kind of thing

But to deny voting rights in a civilian, Rebel led town, well that just doesnt make sense to me..how players who are members of the ALLIANCE TO RESTORE THE REPUBLIC (see websters definition of REPUBLIC) can have problems with elections is beyond me.

If a incumbent Mayor has some kind of RP reason for not wanting contenders for the top spot, they should say so upfront when recruiting for their city. Mayors , when spamming for new citizens should say

'Wanted, new citizens ,reb and neutral, must not challenge current mayor because he cant handle it' you know what I mean?

Its not like a PA where the PA leader can turn off elections and its not supposed to be

Message Edited by Kinshi on 07-19-2005 05:13 PM

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Gotta keep out of the riff raff. Conversely do you really want to let anyone run. What if they decide to tear the city down? So is it better to fair or better to be safe?

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LuciousOtso wrote:

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Kinshi wrote:

Cities become community property fast, as soon as other people starting paying your taxes, they earned a say (and I still say running a city on donations alone is a cop out, should only do donations when there is no other choice). The Mayor is there to serve the citizens, not the other way around, thus a Mayor should have to justify their continued presence in the top slot (and do something besides live for free in City Hall)

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i pay for our city, does that mean its mine ?

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Considering that taxes do not properly work, I don't think your taxing initiative is a worthwhile endeavor. I am not the mayor in my hometown, but I've contributed quite a lot to it. I bribed one of the last mayors who almost tore the town apart with their incessant taxing initiatives by dumping 25 mil into the treasury. She was a much better accountant than a mayor. Pretty poor social skills.

Incidentally because taxing doesn't properly work, generally there is no other choice to fund a city other than donations.

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bluejanus wrote:

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LuciousOtso wrote:

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Kinshi wrote:

Cities become community property fast, as soon as other people starting paying your taxes, they earned a say (and I still say running a city on donations alone is a cop out, should only do donations when there is no other choice). The Mayor is there to serve the citizens, not the other way around, thus a Mayor should have to justify their continued presence in the top slot (and do something besides live for free in City Hall)

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i pay for our city, does that mean its mine ?

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Considering that taxes do not properly work, I don't think your taxing initiative is a worthwhile endeavor. I am not the mayor in my hometown, but I've contributed quite a lot to it. I bribed one of the last mayors who almost tore the town apart with their incessant taxing initiatives by dumping 25 mil into the treasury. She was a much better accountant than a mayor. Pretty poor social skills.

Incidentally because taxing doesn't properly work, generally there is no other choice to fund a city other than donations.

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Its only the sales tax that is broken (money goes to the vendor instead of the treasury. Property taxes and income taxes work just peachy if follks bothere to use them. This whole "'taxes dont work thing' is urban legend.

Lets face it, donations are just easier and if you arent actually interested in playing the ROLE of a mayor or civl engineer than you have no motive to use the tax system. I thjink I can safely say 99% of cities in SWG are simplly perks for someones PA and little more.

In this light Politician should be done away with and all the functions added to the PA terminal and given to the PA leader because thats all it really is (lets call a spade a spade shall we?)

Guess I am pretty dissapointed there is such a lack of interest in civics when such a richly featured system exists. SWG Politician prof give a full featured civil engineering emulator in essence and all most people want is to use it for perks and little else. DOnt see many people who actually want to PLAY the profession ya know? its just something to get in order to give goodies to their PA.

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Kinshi wrote:

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bluejanus wrote:

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LuciousOtso wrote:

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Kinshi wrote:

Cities become community property fast, as soon as other people starting paying your taxes, they earned a say (and I still say running a city on donations alone is a cop out, should only do donations when there is no other choice). The Mayor is there to serve the citizens, not the other way around, thus a Mayor should have to justify their continued presence in the top slot (and do something besides live for free in City Hall)

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i pay for our city, does that mean its mine ?

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Considering that taxes do not properly work, I don't think your taxing initiative is a worthwhile endeavor. I am not the mayor in my hometown, but I've contributed quite a lot to it. I bribed one of the last mayors who almost tore the town apart with their incessant taxing initiatives by dumping 25 mil into the treasury. She was a much better accountant than a mayor. Pretty poor social skills.

Incidentally because taxing doesn't properly work, generally there is no other choice to fund a city other than donations.

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Its only the sales tax that is broken (money goes to the vendor instead of the treasury. Property taxes and income taxes work just peachy if follks bothere to use them. This whole "'taxes dont work thing' is urban legend.

Lets face it, donations are just easier and if you arent actually interested in playing the ROLE of a mayor or civl engineer than you have no motive to use the tax system. I thjink I can safely say 99% of cities in SWG are simplly perks for someones PA and little more.

In this light Politician should be done away with and all the functions added to the PA terminal and given to the PA leader because thats all it really is (lets call a spade a spade shall we?)

Guess I am pretty dissapointed there is such a lack of interest in civics when such a richly featured system exists. SWG Politician prof give a full featured civil engineering emulator in essence and all most people want is to use it for perks and little else. DOnt see many people who actually want to PLAY the profession ya know? its just something to get in order to give goodies to their PA.

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Can you properly fund a city just on income and property taxes? I'm betting that you can't.

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Kinshi wrote:

Well let me frame it like this....lets say you arent the only paying for the city by donations..that totally tosses out any claim by a mayor that he is the sole owner of a town by reason that he funds it by himself (because in this case he does not)

What I am hearing here is Mayors would rather towns be like PAs and totally block out the election system. thats not a Political system at all. Really what you want is city functions to be part of being the leader of a PA rather than have a Politician profession.

So what if a new Mayor deletes the city hall? Well your people elected him..cmon, why in all thats holy would you elect someone that would do such a thing in the first place? You dont have to vote for someone who is likely to do that. If you cant trust a citizen to run, why did you give him zoning rights? cmon, there are plenty of ways to keep that scenario from happening if you are a smart mayor. You should have nothing to fear from your own citizens. You brought them in to help you and each other, not to serve you.

That fact of the matter is there is an election system and you cannot turn it off (and thats by design). If someone else comes along who can prove they can run the town better than you they should have the chance to do so.

Really the city hall deletions from what I have heard seem to come more from veteran mayors who pitch a fit like a 6 year old if they face an election loss. Is that really the type of person who deserves to be in charge of a city? I think not.

and lets look at another angle...Mayor decides hes sick of SWG and goes bye bye..I can find LOTS of examples of that on this forum. WHat Mayors, you think you have the right to hold your office for yourself only then dissapear without a word later on leaving everyone else high and dry? Again is that the kind of person who desreves to be running a city?

If you followed the logic that paying for the city is equal to owevrship of the city (and that its citizens are simply vassals) then in r/l Bill Gates would own Redmond, Paul Allen would own Seattle, basically all of the proerty and structures in the USA would be owned by about 20 people.

Think about it..you are advocating Feudalism.

I guess I never realized how much civics does NOT apply in the SWG civic areana. Its kinda creepy that so many would be so against vitual democracy (especially in the US) and would prefer feudalism over democracy.

Think of it this way. If some rich dude came to your town, bought all the property, became mayor and used thuggery and coercion to keep others from running, and took 'special' care of those who paid him off what would you think? Or would you be one of the ones trying to become one of the Mayors 'special' buddies? What would you say if you Mayor flat out said..this is MY town, I own it and by proxy I own you,

So it makes me wonder if SWG political system is a civics emulator or simply a means of expression for control freaks. Im beginning to wonder.

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It's a game. Things work differently than in real life. In my old city, there was an understanding that no would run against me. Why? Because I made the city to be the mayor. Dictatorship? Not fitting in a roleplay sense (we were Rebel)? Yes. But that's a matter of personal preference.

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Kinshi wrote:

This whole "'taxes dont work thing' is urban legend.

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