Politician Archive
Thread: Should the Politician have a role in revamped Major (NPC) cities?
- A popular demand always was a place to find out how many cities of which rank are already on the planet ...
- Something that was asked for quite often from eventholders and merchants was a board or monitor were you could put up adds ... maybe politicians can do this and pay with poli XP forit (I like the idea of paying with XP instead of money ... kinda makes the post-master-game more worth while)
- Thinking about it, I'd like a feature to easily get in touch with mayors from other cities ... discuss politicial and event topics ... form coalitions (not only faction wise) and vote on different subjects ... The perfect place to put features like this would be the capitol of a planet ... and maybe a slim version of this in the other NPC cities that really act like a regional capital ... this would cover your point of "political hubs that are the connection point between the Player Cities" ...
If we assert our political wills and nothing results we can at least know we tried. If we don't we are not doing our jobs as Politicians. It is better to try and fail than not to have tried at all.
DaQuilla wrote:
I have to say Im not really sure how we mayors should help to improve NPC cities ... since essentially these are our rivals.
We are the Politician profession and this is the Politician Forum. While we have been designed and constrained to Player Cities I do not see why we should just surrender all hope of ever being more. We are the ONLY profession whose abilities are tied to votes made by other players. Without votes we are nothing and through voting we are empowered.
My point is that if we assert our OOC Political Will here on the forums and by our constituants maybe we can have the NPC Cities work with us rather than against. NPC Cities are assured to be our rivals if we do not step forward and try and find a place in the changes.
But maybe their really are some features that our player cities could benefit from ...
- A popular demand always was a place to find out how many cities of which rank are already on the planet ... And perhaps this information can be found on Plantary Capitals? Definately frustrating for people who want to place a city and make the huge investment in a City Hall only to find they can't place it.
- Something that was asked for quite often from eventholders and merchants was a board or monitor were you could put up adds ... maybe politicians can do this and pay with poli XP forit (I like the idea of paying with XP instead of money ... kinda makes the post-master-game more worth while) Seems more of a Merchant thing but this is the type of thinking I'm looking to find.
- Thinking about it, I'd like a feature to easily get in touch with mayors from other cities ... discuss politicial and event topics ... form coalitions (not only faction wise) and vote on different subjects ... The perfect place to put features like this would be the capitol of a planet ... and maybe a slim version of this in the other NPC cities that really act like a regional capital ... this would cover your point of "political hubs that are the connection point between the Player Cities" ... Yes, this is going a step closer to my line of thinking
We can't go to far however since we already know that our request for a planetary or even interplanetary senate was rejected by LucasArts ... saying this wouldn't be able to go conform with the bigger picture of LucasFilm (they have to request an ok for every senator or regional gouverner from LucasFilm ... not even LucasArts can call something on their own here).
This would pose a problem. Where did you find out about this and is there any way to confirm it? I'm suprised that LA let some other things happen yet retain this distinction
We can also asume, that the devs don't want to hand out to much power to few people like we politicians are few (so probebly no feature to affect planetary faction or xp gain/loss)... and also they won't want to spend to much dev time into systems that are only used by few players.
The Politician is the ONLY profession that has to be elected to be able to use their abilities and with the election changes this finally has more meaning. The Politician is the ONLY profession that is capped for how many can exist and be functional. The Politician is the ONLY profession that can directly impact the livihood of those who vote him or her to be Mayor.
While we are few we represent many and I for one take a great deal of accountability for the interests of those who live in my city. I see NPC Cities as being a potential threat which could adversely impact Player Property Rights issues as a Player City that is negatively impacted by an NPC City is ultimately a devaluation of their property.
When issues are discussed on other forums they say, "You should disuss this on the Politician" forums but as a community we seem rather content in our mediocrity fighting for removal of skill points rather than finding meaning or value to having them.
But taking a further look at it ... "What is a politician?"
At the moment a politician is either a mayor of a player city ... or a waste of skill points ... but looking at RL politics has a lot more to offer than just being tha mayor. What about those who aren't mayors at the moment? How could you give them a role to play in SWG? Could they be diplomats? What jobs could they do in player cities or in NPC cities?
These are the answers I am looking for. I have made suggestions but it just got snoozed away by posts about elections and alternate mayors. Yes, RL politics have alot more to offer to being a Mayor and this forum should be our arena. Many Mayors have those RL skills and we should use them to protect our interests and the interests of those we serve.
Message Edited by Fidgiter on 01-15-2005 07:41 AM
; Tarkin says this at the meeting on the Death Star). While it would be awesome for Politicians to play this kind of role, it really doesn't fit the time frame. (I know, I know. Jedi weren't running around rampant during this time frame, but that's a different issue).
Khristen wrote:
I would imagine the reason planetary/galactic Senates would get the big veto stick is that in Episode IV, Palpatine had disbanded the Senate and put control into the hands of the governors (appointed by him
I do like the idea of opening up NPC cities for residency (apartment building concept or whatever) and in that case it would certainly be a great opportunity for a Politician to be able to become the mayor of any NPC city that isn't the capitol city (because the Imperial governors would be there). It's just one more playground for Politicians, which is always a good thing.
Palpatine disbanded the Galactic Senate which was a centralized point where representatives of member worlds gathered to discuss Galactic issues. I can fully understand why this wouldn't be an option for us. The world capitals have Military Governors which again would make sense to avoid Planetary Governance. But the Empire can't manage the minutia of every city of every world.
Politicians are local government and most Major (NPC) Cities are local government. Politicians should be at the least be able to influence them to some degree. There may be a need for a price for influences the Empire deems unacceptable just like Lando lost his city after he crossed the Empire. Choice and Consequence are the hallmarks of a good game.
The Politician profession is already useless. I don't see the point of an elite useless profession to add insult to injury.
Hvzeda wrote:
Interesting idea, but I would be more interesting in managing the politics in my own city than a NPC city. I would like to see something that gives player cities an uniqueness from other player cities and NPC cities (don't ask for examples from me right now, but it would be quest based and not something that can be done in a couple of hours). I am wondering what happened to the player city missions that was once talked about going into a patch (patch 9 I believe).
If we want a political role outside our own player city, then create an elite profession of the politician profession. Again, what that would entail, I have no idea.
If it is useless, then why make a suggestion of having player politicians manage NPC cities?
Fidgiter wrote:
The Politician profession is already useless. I don't see the point of an elite useless profession to add insult to injury.
Hvzeda wrote:
Interesting idea, but I would be more interesting in managing the politics in my own city than a NPC city. I would like to see something that gives player cities an uniqueness from other player cities and NPC cities (don't ask for examples from me right now, but it would be quest based and not something that can be done in a couple of hours). I am wondering what happened to the player city missions that was once talked about going into a patch (patch 9 I believe).
If we want a political role outside our own player city, then create an elite profession of the politician profession. Again, what that would entail, I have no idea.
In an effort to find an enhanced purpose to the Politician AND to try and protect the property interests of those who live in the cities we are elected to manage.
Hvzeda wrote:
If it is useless, then why make a suggestion of having player politicians manage NPC cities?
Fidgiter wrote:
The Politician profession is already useless. I don't see the point of an elite useless profession to add insult to injury.
Hvzeda wrote:
Interesting idea, but I would be more interesting in managing the politics in my own city than a NPC city. I would like to see something that gives player cities an uniqueness from other player cities and NPC cities (don't ask for examples from me right now, but it would be quest based and not something that can be done in a couple of hours). I am wondering what happened to the player city missions that was once talked about going into a patch (patch 9 I believe).
If we want a political role outside our own player city, then create an elite profession of the politician profession. Again, what that would entail, I have no idea.
Fidgiter wrote:
In an effort to find an enhanced purpose to the Politician AND to try and protect the property interests of those who live in the cities we are elected to manage.
In what way would giving us reign over a NPC city give politicians more purpose than managing a PC city? Especially when you cannot and will not live in an NPC town so your constituency does not exist. There would be no way to effectively impliment politicians into these types of towns and any effect we have would be superficial concerning what player cities offer and what NPC ones are used.
If we are given the same powers as we have currently in PC cities to use for the NPC ones what would this mean? No taxes since noone lives there outside of perhaps a new mission tax. No decorations or gardens since the cities are hard coded just like the terrain. Essentially you'd be given dominion over a specialization perhaps and a title. Really worth the code time that. Especially considering the choices made available. Coronet and Theed would be med specials and the adventure worlds would get enhanced mission payouts. If you are suggesting new powers to be given out, why should they be limited to just NPC mayors and not given to the whole profession?
As per protecting our population and property...huh? How does making Coronet more interesting make my town less? It'll have the same bases, the same vendors, the same people willing to fight and befriend you, the same interest and cohesion it always has. How do I lose here?
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
Fidgiter wrote:
In an effort to find an enhanced purpose to the Politician AND to try and protect the property interests of those who live in the cities we are elected to manage.
In what way would giving us reign over a NPC city give politicians more purpose than managing a PC city? Especially when you cannot and will not live in an NPC town so your constituency does not exist.
And how do you KNOW that people will never be able to reside in an NPC city? Player Cities are the hubs of commerce and loss of commerce bleeds away our already horrific financial situation. Do you also know that merchants will never be able to setup shops in an NPC city? Will they choose your city over the potential coolness of being next to the Starport in a REAL city with ROADS and WALLS and all the things we'll never have?
There would be no way to effectively impliment politicians into these types of towns and any effect we have would be superficial concerning what player cities offer and what NPC ones are used.
Swordsman wield swords, rifleman wield rifles, merchants sell wares, weaponsmiths craft weapons andPoliticiansSHOULD wield influence.Most of what we do in running cities isn't based on the profession we have devoted points too for so long, it is based on our personal skills. How can we extend influence?
The following post is from the GCW forums.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=295813
The Quell Uprising and Incite Uprising has Politician written all over it in broad strokes. Maybe the way it is looked at here isn't perfect but it is something that we can and should discuss and see how it could be done. While it may not be for all it will be for some and then maybe we could actually have a role in the Galactic Conflict which involves POLITICS.
As one can't have any powers of a Politician without votes one would not be able to extend this influence without the support of living breathing players. If we win the support of the people then the people we represent collectively have the influence through us.
If we are given the same powers as we have currently in PC cities to use for the NPC ones what would this mean? No taxes since noone lives there outside of perhaps a new mission tax. No decorations or gardens since the cities are hard coded just like the terrain. Essentially you'd be given dominion over a specialization perhaps and a title.
Whether we have "powers" or not isn't so much the issue as ensuring that whatever is done with the NPC Cities will not give strong incentives for people to leave the Player Cities. Things like "To have a Merchant in the City" you need to be a resident of a neighboring city or perhaps it would be more expensive for the "out of towner".
One thing I find that would enhance the Cities would be politics and the intrigue that comes with it. Having residents in player cities around the Major city could give them this influence and the politician would be the vehicle for it. What type of powers or influence we have is something to discuss which is why I'm rattling cages here.
Really worth the code time that. Especially considering the choices made available. Coronet and Theed would be med specials and the adventure worlds would get enhanced mission payouts. If you are suggesting new powers to be given out, why should they be limited to just NPC mayors and not given to the whole profession?
Have you looked at the post on the In Developement forums? There apparently is some developement resources given to it since they initiated discussion on the forum about it. We should be talking about this and how it impacts us.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=54803
If you are suggesting new powers to be given out, why should they be limited to just NPC mayors and not given to the whole profession?
The difference between a tyrant and a politician is the fact that a politician is elected into office . It could be as simple as giving Mayors of neighboring cities the ability to influence the events in the major city whether it is security, faction, or commerce. It could be extended to being able to actually have a purpose for Master Politician.
As per protecting our population and property...huh? How does making Coronet more interesting make my town less? It'll have the same bases, the same vendors, the same people willing to fight and befriend you, the same interest and cohesion it always has. How do I lose here?
What if vendors could suddenly be place in Coronet? Would people make the extra hop to shop at your city? Would the crafters potentially find they no longer care that you still have a shuttle port? How about if they could reside there? What will happen to the already dismal financial performance of cities?
Have you ever seen how quickly a city crumbles without a shuttleport? It is quick and horrid. I've seen three cities crumble in the neighborhood around me and it is tragic. My city survives because I work hard to keep it that way but this task will become harder unless there remains an incentive for people to be residents.
And as far as hosting bases, been there done that, maybe after the GCW upgrade. For now all it does is attract farmers who come and commit mass murder over and over and over again and ultimately scare off business and terrorize the unprepared.
Let's say we have crafters who have established businesses and they have decorated shops and established business. The value of their business isn't just the structure, items and inventory it extends to the "Being Known". If the city looses the shuttleport or people are forced to relocate to be competative the "Being Known" aspect is devalued thus their property is devalued.
With the exodus of players the pressure is on and unless there is a return ALOT of people will loose their cities. I'm not talking about Mayors here but those people who reside in our cities and who could be hurt by what happens to the health of the cities we manage.
When one thing is enhanced and another competing thing remains the same it is a NERF to the thing that is unchanged. A NERF to our cities is a NERF to us and our residents. We should act to ensure that the desired enhancements are done in a way that compliments our profession and our cities. There is a way that this can be done but only if get our heads out of the sand and act.
Message Edited by Fidgiter on 01-15-2005 11:11 PM
Fidgiter wrote:
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
Fidgiter wrote:
In an effort to find an enhanced purpose to the Politician AND to try and protect the property interests of those who live in the cities we are elected to manage.
In what way would giving us reign over a NPC city give politicians more purpose than managing a PC city? Especially when you cannot and will not live in an NPC town so your constituency does not exist.
And how do you KNOW that people will never be able to reside in an NPC city? Player Cities are the hubs of commerce and loss of commerce bleeds away our already horrific financial situation. Do you also know that merchants will never be able to setup shops in an NPC city? Will they choose your city over the potential coolness of being next to the Starport in a REAL city with ROADS and WALLS and all the things we'll never have?
Because the developers have said it multiple times in as many words. We will never be able to reside in an NPC city because of the issues of lag that having that many dwellings in an area that is already laggy would give as well as other issues most likely the art department coming up with interiors for the skyscrapers.
Everything else you said is basically promoting discussion for our revamp when it comes which is always a good idea; however, I don't see you rattling any cages just saying that we should be given control over an NPC city. Eitherarbitrarily or through some unknown means, and then after controlling the NPC city get these all new great ideas that would enhance the politician community ten fold if we had them for anything and not just NPC cities.
I want my skill point investment to be more meaningful as much as the next person, however this would definitely make me an enlightened despot over an elected leader. Who would vote for a novice politician that can't do half of what I can do (which is new and interesting, not just urban planning which most of our skills allow) unless I was threatening to raze hell? You are basically gifting masters with this and forcing novices into a subservient role or that of a brand new city. No chance of there being debates over power if I'm the only one with power thanks to my experience. This is something that always needs to be remembered. We complain about our fire and forget skills however if they where continuous ones then why or how could we possibly be replaceable? How could someone that is our better, but newer to the politician role, challenge us?
My understanding of the proposed development is the exact same as what they did to Bestine last year, well actually a bit better. They are going to redesign some of the larger NPC cities an lesser ones as well. Give them a facelift and more of a meaning then just random non imperial/rebel cloner in the wilderness. They won't hold citizens and they deffinitely won't hold vendors to challenge our abilities (again this is straight from the horses mouth there) but rather have unique POI's and powers that we won't. You may see a dip in people strolling around in your city as a result of this but most of my citizens and random Joe's that visit are either in a building or on their way to entering a building. It would appear to be almost the exact same and truly be the exact same. Same number of shoppers, same number of enemies coming to attack your guild or base or whomever, same number of citizens to form bonds with each other.
All we lose is the ability to call Doaba Guerfel a butt ugly barren wasteland.This is only a Nerf if you view your city relative to NPC ones and not your neighbors. I always see mine as the best looking and most interesting player city on Corellia, I'm highly biased, and after this it will still be the best looking and most interesting player city on Corellia. Only difference is Coronet will be grander andKorVellawill be more interesting...wait, they already are.
Basically, in short: Chicken Little Warning is Green. Low chance of they sky falling.
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
Everything else you said is basically promoting discussion for our revamp when it comes which is always a good idea; however, I don't see you rattling any cages just saying that we should be given control over an NPC city. Eitherarbitrarily or through some unknown means, and then after controlling the NPC city get these all new great ideas that would enhance the politician community ten fold if we had them for anything and not just NPC cities.
What I'm suggesting is that one thing that could improve the Major Cities would be political intrigue and in the unlikely event that the Developers do things they said they wouldn't do (As has happened many times before) that these things are balanced by some incentives for people to remain as residents in Player Cities.
I want my skill point investment to be more meaningful as much as the next person, however this would definitely make me an enlightened despot over an elected leader... You are basically gifting masters with this and forcing novices into a subservient role or that of a brand new city.
This is a really good point. Maybe for a Master to move into a new political arena they would need to have a novice politician take over in the player city that they outgrew and also give the novice politician the ability to exert influence as well to the Major City they are a suburb of. The fact that a Master of a Trade is better than a Novice and that the Novice has less ability than the Master is the way of things. However all Masters were at one time a Novice.
Basically, in short: Chicken Little Warning is Green. Low chance of they sky falling.
Or maybe the Naievity meter is Red. High chance of falling for SOE promises
I've heard many official comments about things that would or would not be and have seen the opposite results more oftten than not. I always prepare for the worst so I always have pleasent suprises and this is why my city stands as a continued success while others around me crumble.
Maybe I'm a little over the top on this and I'll say it straight out that it is deliberate. I'll fight for every crumb of resources if it means it will advance our profession and help improve our cities. Every other community does and I do not see why we do not. We devalue ourselves and our constituents by looking only at the number of politicians without consideration tothe number of city residents we represent.