Politician Archive
Thread: Overflow lots for mayors
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furrycat
Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:12 am
#1
In this post to the top 5 thread, PsychoticChipmunk reminds me of some thoughts I had a while ago regarding mayors placing houses for citizens.
PsychoticChipmunk:
Essentially a mayor is given 17-20 lots but it is wiped back down to 10 every night (I don't know how to do this without the server maintenance) This way we are able to place a harvester to a home to a PA hall instead of coaching somebody else to do it.
This prompted me to write up my thoughts in a formal manner.
Background
Mayors and their militia (hereafter referred to collectively as the militia) often spend a great deal of time and effort planning the layout of their cities. They plan urban development to a fine level of detail and will have precise ideas in mind for the location and rotation (sometimes even the style and floorplan) of houses.
Explaining their plans to new citizens moving into the city takes time and there is a risk of misunderstanding. Citizens may be reluctant to redeed houses which were not placed as intended.
The militia may also choose not to allow new citizens to place houses at all, as a stranger with zoning right cannot be completely trusted not to attempt to grief the city by dropping structures in annoying locations. They will therefore place the citizen's house in an approved location and /transferStructure the building to its rightful owner.
Problem
In order to guarantee that the militia can accomodate any new citizen's wishes, they must keep six lots free (seven if guild halls are taken into consideration). Although these lots are only actually in use for a short time (between placing and transferring a building) they cannot be used for other purposes such as dropping harvesters or factories. The militia therefore face an uncomfortable choice: give up over half their lots or sacrifice an effective urban development strategy.
Proposed solution
Grant "overflow" lots to militia members that would allow them to place buildings that do not require skill points to place (such as merchant tents) within city limits. Such overflow lots would only be available when the player's in-use lots did not exceed the normal maximum of ten. This way the militia could place a structure at any time but would have to transfer ownership before they could use overflow lots again.
Ideally any building placed in this way would be prevented from receiving maintenance payments until it had been transferred at least once. This is so they could not be used as de facto extra storage buildings.
Suggested implementation
Let D be the number of lots required by a particular deed.
Let P be the number of lots currently used by the player attempting to use the deed.
Let M be the maximum number of lots a player may use (currently 10).
The current method of choosing whether the deed may be used is as follows, ignoring restrictions such as zoning rights, no build areas and other issues outside the scope of this discussion:
If (M - P) < D then the deed may not be used.
Otherwise the deed may be used: P is set to (P + D).
Under the proposed system the algorithm would be:
If (M - P) < D and the player is not in the militia then the deed may not be used.
If P > M then the deed may not be used.
Otherwise the deed may be used: P is set to (P + D).
The key condition is the second. As long as no overflow lots are in use the building may be placed but once one structure has been placed in this way the conditional statement is true and the deed cannot be used.
Note that "in the militia" in the first condition would be trivially false if the player was not within city limits.
Example: not enough lots
The mayor has 2 lots free. He wishes to place a large house for citizen A and a small house for citizen B. Assume that citizen A runs off to take a mission while waiting for the mayor to place the house and is out of range when the mayor tries to /transferStructure. Meanwhile citizen C, who is not in the militia, wonders if he can exploit the system to gain an extra large house even though he has only 3 lots remaining.
A's house
Here P = 8 and D = 6.
(M - P) = 2 < D = 6 but the player is in the militia so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 8 < M = 10 so condition 2 does not apply.
Therefore the deed may be used. P is set to 14.
Overflow lots are used by the mayor.
B's house
Here P = 14 and D = 2.
(M - P) = -4 < D = 6 but the player is in the militia so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 14 > M = 10 so condition 2 applies and the deed may not be used.
Overflow lots can only be used once.
C's house
Here P = 7 and D = 6.
(M - P) = 3 < D = 6 and the player is not in the militia so condition 1 applies and the deed may not be used.
Overflow lots are only available to the militia.
Example: no free lots
A militia member, who has been granted zoning rights by a colleague, has no lots free (P = 10). He wishes to place a medium house for a citizen (D = 3).
(M - P) = 0 < D = 3 but the player is in the militia so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 10 = M = 10 so condition 2 does not apply.
Therefore the deed may be used. P is set to 13.
Overflow lots are used by the militia member.
Example: regression test
A player with 7 lots remaining (P = 3) wishes to place a small house (D = 2) in the wilderness.
(M - P) = 7 > D = 2 so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 3 < M = 10 so condition 2 does not apply.
Therefore the deed may be used. P is set to 5.
Overflow lot rules do not break existing functionality.
PsychoticChipmunk:
Essentially a mayor is given 17-20 lots but it is wiped back down to 10 every night (I don't know how to do this without the server maintenance) This way we are able to place a harvester to a home to a PA hall instead of coaching somebody else to do it.
This prompted me to write up my thoughts in a formal manner.
Background
Mayors and their militia (hereafter referred to collectively as the militia) often spend a great deal of time and effort planning the layout of their cities. They plan urban development to a fine level of detail and will have precise ideas in mind for the location and rotation (sometimes even the style and floorplan) of houses.
Explaining their plans to new citizens moving into the city takes time and there is a risk of misunderstanding. Citizens may be reluctant to redeed houses which were not placed as intended.
The militia may also choose not to allow new citizens to place houses at all, as a stranger with zoning right cannot be completely trusted not to attempt to grief the city by dropping structures in annoying locations. They will therefore place the citizen's house in an approved location and /transferStructure the building to its rightful owner.
Problem
In order to guarantee that the militia can accomodate any new citizen's wishes, they must keep six lots free (seven if guild halls are taken into consideration). Although these lots are only actually in use for a short time (between placing and transferring a building) they cannot be used for other purposes such as dropping harvesters or factories. The militia therefore face an uncomfortable choice: give up over half their lots or sacrifice an effective urban development strategy.
Proposed solution
Grant "overflow" lots to militia members that would allow them to place buildings that do not require skill points to place (such as merchant tents) within city limits. Such overflow lots would only be available when the player's in-use lots did not exceed the normal maximum of ten. This way the militia could place a structure at any time but would have to transfer ownership before they could use overflow lots again.
Ideally any building placed in this way would be prevented from receiving maintenance payments until it had been transferred at least once. This is so they could not be used as de facto extra storage buildings.
Suggested implementation
Let D be the number of lots required by a particular deed.
Let P be the number of lots currently used by the player attempting to use the deed.
Let M be the maximum number of lots a player may use (currently 10).
The current method of choosing whether the deed may be used is as follows, ignoring restrictions such as zoning rights, no build areas and other issues outside the scope of this discussion:
If (M - P) < D then the deed may not be used.
Otherwise the deed may be used: P is set to (P + D).
Under the proposed system the algorithm would be:
If (M - P) < D and the player is not in the militia then the deed may not be used.
If P > M then the deed may not be used.
Otherwise the deed may be used: P is set to (P + D).
The key condition is the second. As long as no overflow lots are in use the building may be placed but once one structure has been placed in this way the conditional statement is true and the deed cannot be used.
Note that "in the militia" in the first condition would be trivially false if the player was not within city limits.
Example: not enough lots
The mayor has 2 lots free. He wishes to place a large house for citizen A and a small house for citizen B. Assume that citizen A runs off to take a mission while waiting for the mayor to place the house and is out of range when the mayor tries to /transferStructure. Meanwhile citizen C, who is not in the militia, wonders if he can exploit the system to gain an extra large house even though he has only 3 lots remaining.
A's house
Here P = 8 and D = 6.
(M - P) = 2 < D = 6 but the player is in the militia so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 8 < M = 10 so condition 2 does not apply.
Therefore the deed may be used. P is set to 14.
Overflow lots are used by the mayor.
B's house
Here P = 14 and D = 2.
(M - P) = -4 < D = 6 but the player is in the militia so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 14 > M = 10 so condition 2 applies and the deed may not be used.
Overflow lots can only be used once.
C's house
Here P = 7 and D = 6.
(M - P) = 3 < D = 6 and the player is not in the militia so condition 1 applies and the deed may not be used.
Overflow lots are only available to the militia.
Example: no free lots
A militia member, who has been granted zoning rights by a colleague, has no lots free (P = 10). He wishes to place a medium house for a citizen (D = 3).
(M - P) = 0 < D = 3 but the player is in the militia so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 10 = M = 10 so condition 2 does not apply.
Therefore the deed may be used. P is set to 13.
Overflow lots are used by the militia member.
Example: regression test
A player with 7 lots remaining (P = 3) wishes to place a small house (D = 2) in the wilderness.
(M - P) = 7 > D = 2 so condition 1 does not apply.
P = 3 < M = 10 so condition 2 does not apply.
Therefore the deed may be used. P is set to 5.
Overflow lot rules do not break existing functionality.
Trean
Sat Nov 27, 2004 1:34 pm
#2
/cheer for Algebra....
Okay all things aside, this is a sound implementable plan. Anyone who takes building a city seriously knows about the countless hours spent "coaching" people on how to lay there houses, the alignment with the house next to them(or maybe the house that isn't there yet) and the need for a 'street' between houses so as to not have blueprints jutting together. Well all this time could be easily avoided with the implementation of a system like the one described above.
5 stars for a beyond great idea
PsychoticChipmunk
Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:56 pm
#3
Yay I'm helping!
Good system and basically what I had in mind when I wrote that little bit. It details it nicely and provides the checks etc. that are needed. And in overly complex algebraic expressions no less
Nice post and hopefully it'll get development attention (maybe even a response to show you guys care) and possibly put into the game sooner rather then later.
Nice post and hopefully it'll get development attention (maybe even a response to show you guys care) and possibly put into the game sooner rather then later.
MTolwyn
Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:24 pm
#4
I like the idea but i d do it a bit different (well maybe i just missunderstood the initial idea :smileyindifferent
idea:
- A city has 10 temp lots available for militia
- Mayor and militia can set buildings on it, but not for more than 48 hours (per building)
- The building gets an owner defined and next time this person enters the building it is automaticly transfered to the planed owner
this should be easy to realize and would be a major help for city planing. mayor and militia haven t to spend aeons waiting for people comming by to drop/get their houses
PsychoticChipmunk
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:02 am
#5
MTolwyn wrote:
I like the idea but i d do it a bit different (well maybe i just missunderstood the initial idea)
idea:
- A city has 10 temp lots available for militia
- Mayor and militia can set buildings on it, but not for more than 48 hours (per building)
- The building gets an owner defined and next time this person enters the building it is automaticly transfered to the planed owner
this should be easy to realize and would be a major help for city planing. mayor and militia haven t to spend aeons waiting for people comming by to drop/get their houses
That's basically what I had thought only I was relegating it to just the mayor myself. The militia can get it as well without it being too widespread but it just seems like we deserve something extra 
And using /transferstructure instead of them walking in since that is already in the game and likely much less of a development headache.
And using /transferstructure instead of them walking in since that is already in the game and likely much less of a development headache. With the militia potentially getting it too though that raises some questions on how many lots would be needed. If it was just the mayor doubling his would be fine since it's just 1 person. If you had a move in spree and needed to drop 2 large homes neither knowing the other it would become a hassle especially if the first to drop is waiting on his new citizen to come an claim the house while the second militiaman is sitting next to his.
MTolwyn
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:11 am
#6
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
And using /transferstructure instead of them walking in since that is already in the game and likely much less of a development headache.
the /transferstructure is not much help cause my main problem are not the lots
but the time i ve to waste each day by waiting till people finally move their butt over the to the city to take the house
average waiting time is 15-30 min per house and i ve better things to do than to wait half day
and the second problem are the timezones, i m from europe so i see most of the people just on weekends.
With an automatic transfer ability i could also move in people during the week, i place the houses and they get them while i m sleeping
Scoooter
Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:29 am
#7
MTolwyn wrote:
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
And using /transferstructure instead of them walking in since that is already in the game and likely much less of a development headache.
the /transferstructure is not much help cause my main problem are not the lots
but the time i ve to waste each day by waiting till people finally move their butt over the to the city to take the house
average waiting time is 15-30 min per house and i ve better things to do than to wait half day
and the second problem are the timezones, i m from europe so i see most of the people just on weekends.
With an automatic transfer ability i could also move in people during the week, i place the houses and they get them while i m sleeping
I just store 2 lots, if its ove rthat I have them drop it but immediatly revoke rights after it is dropped
Although because I have the city totally planned my militia does not grant rights. All placements are don by the mayor or with teh mayor present.
However I would like my lots back lol
I would think just asking for 7 lots for transfer purposes (temporary) could be pushed for. But we should ask for them to be only for the mayor. That way we can show the devs we are not attempting to gain more than we really need. And they could be bound by restrictions
1) Cannot stay for more that 48 hours
2) Structures placed on temporary lots cannot be factories or harvesters (only houses)
3) Only placed in the city
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