Politician Archive
Thread: New TC City Changes 12-4-03
A militia abuses the city warn feature. They are disorganized, leaderless citizens with commands they should not have.A City Police Department is not any of these things. It is organized. It is responsible. It is held accountable by the people.
The troopers in my department understand this. We have been fortunate not to have any greifing so far, but with a shutleport up now, that may change.
You say that someone acting in aninappropriate way is simply Role Playing. So are we, we are the City Police, and ifyoucreate problems in the city you will be asked to stop. If you don't, you will be banned. If you continue, you will be warned.Are they allowed to RP and we are not?
You say that by being neutral that they have not consented to PVP. Have my citizens consented to their harrasment? NO!
The police in our city have a police station, uniforms, a Captain,two 1st Lts.three 2nd Lts andthree platoons to monitor the city and remove hostile bandits, aggro pests, and the "RPers" that find it funny to give the citizens of Kintan problems. It is a job that is done as a service for the citizens and is provided by the city.
The citywarn command is essential to the protection of the city and citizens of a city. As is the case in RL, some have power they are not able to handle. And as is the case in RL, you learn what communities have crooked authorities and avoid them. You may rest assured this random warning will not be allowed in Kintan.
Life in our glaxy is not meant to be safe, evenwhile traveling. You will go into towns that do not welcome you.the Militiaaspect of the game (city warn included)adds more reality to the player city. As some point out, without it, we dont need player cities.
The daythe citywarn feature is removed will be a truely sad day for Star Wars Galaxies. Griefers will have won. The cities will be subject to their whims and the citizens will have no choice but to deal with it in silence. I will no longer be able to offer a city free from harrasment.
If you feel removing the citwarn is a good thing, I feel sorry for you. You have no idea what we will be in for after this happens. It will be far worse than what we have seen by the few uncontroled militiamen. If you were apart of a Militia that caused this griefing of others for no reason, shame on you. When your city is over run by the griefers as well, you will regret ever having pushed that button.
Captain Anika Mon'Sulu, Kintan City Police Department (KC-PD) -Kintan Naboo, Radiant
Guild <DROW>
Tavie_Bautat wrote:
Atwo minute warning isn't enough for someone to get the point that they are about to be engaged? I'm sorry, but if you're warned and stay past the two minutes, consider the PVP consentual, lol.
This is the point.
This was done because /crybabies couldn't deal with it.
As to the clone camping, yes, JUST LIKE SINCE THIS GAME WAS IN BETA, something needs to be done to make you invulnerable while loading. Duh.
That would have "fixed" griefing - instead of removing an entire system from the game.
If you don't want to be /warned, DO NOT GO TO A PLAYER CITY, and especially DO NOT ACT LIKE A JERK.
Those simple things would preven PvP.
You get /warned? RUN.
It's that easy. If they had just fixed the cloning thing, and left the milita alone, everything would have been fine.
I just really resent all the development time put into cities in milita when they are just tearing it all down.
As I said above, what a waste.
Audio
Plinka wrote:
1. /citywarn has been removed from the game.
BZZZT! Thank you for playing, that was the WRONG ANSWER.
Sorry, Plinka, but this is way, way, way out to lunch. How could the devs think that removing a valuable tool used to control the city was a good idea? What this essentially says is because some people were using it for griefing, we're now going to take it away, and nevermind that it means that anyone can grief your city now, because you have no way of making them leave.
There had better be something to replace this in the works, or this will likely be a content killer for player cities. If you want the crap that comes with griefers and spammers wandering around, go to Anchorhead or Bestine.
What's the point of the militia again?
This is stupid! /citywarn is what militia do. If there is a citywhere the militia are zelous, they wont be able to pay rent if no one can get to buy there crappy droids.
If we cant do this The game seems quite able to teleport people.. Give us a command that teleports idiots to 0,0 if they dont leave the city in 30 seconds. -_-
Perhaps there is wisdom in my sarcasm thats not a bad idea and its something you will hardly even have to program since this bugware already does it.
Trean wrote:Hoppity posted:
despite what Tool_Plinka tells you. Kiss my 3 accts good bye soon, just waiting for the population to hit the hardeck
Good bye
and please don't insult our coorespondant. She is very very good, the best or maybe second best(I really like SirVimes too). She quit once for reasons unknownst to us, but it was most likely to stand up for ideals that we like her to stand for, and well it all comes down to... DON'T INSULT OUR COORESPONDANT, she is very good to us, she has close to 1000 posts of very good information.
Good bye Hoppity.
Sorry to shoot the messenger there, I was out of line. Plinka does seem to be doing a good job, keep it up and don't let idiots like me get you down.
You have to understand though that with the situation we face in our city (major griefers pulling reds in constantly - we are on Lok, so even most yellows are deadly) this is a backbreaker.
First we find out that we can't keep these griefers out of our cloning facility, then we find out that the only tool which is at our disposal is going to be taken away from us.
If cities are camping POIs, then put a no build zone around them and make them move. The devs should have seen this coming though and not allowed it in the first place.
A Player City is just that, a PLAYER built city. meaning that 50 or so people have gotten together to build something. To take control of that away from them and turn their work into a public griefing forum is beyond unfair: it is patently stupid.
If all goes as has been stated, our numbers are going to seriously drop. Player Cities were the thing that kept many of us in the game, which was becoming a bore and a chore. Nerf it, and take control from us and there might well be an Exodus.
Sorry again Plinka.
/citywarn was a necessity. Despite the nay-sayers above, it remained a powerful tool, not for griefing (yeah, right, how do you grief with /citywarn that you couldn't grief through other means), but for DETERRENCE.
Maris Paradis has never used /citywarn. It has, however, gathered ten Marshals (our militia) and the Mayor in one place, and had the mayor count to "three." The understanding was on "three" the /citywarn command would be used.
The situation was defused successfully, and peacefully.
I imagine this scenario was played out in city after city on server after server. Responsible people, acting responsibly.
Unfortunately, this game does not cater to responsibility. It caters to combat and warfare, and Jedi being the antithesis of roleplay.
RbT
Now I would really like to see some talk on the other things that were removed, like the cloning centers not being on the nearest clone center list which is now npc exclusive.
Maybe my city is high profile enough but we don't use citywarn that much, and I am sure they will fix it and put some sort of replacemtn back in eventually.
okay so we have a rebel city on scylla, its one of the largest rebel citys around, our policy is kill imps on sight, covert or overt. How are we suppost to role play as a rebel city when imps can just run around talking sh!t in a 100% rebel city, we dont want to place covert scanners everywhere because some dumbass can come take it out when no one is there at like 2 in the morning. seriously ever friggin cool thing you give us you take away, im sick of it, what is the point of having a milita or being in one if you cant attack unwelcome guests, and its not unconsented, we have posted on the forums, told everyone in our city that if there are imps citywarn and ban them, imps know for a fact that if they come to rauvin were gonna shoot at em. and 30 seconds is more than enough time to get out of our city limits. once again your taking something thats useful and cool away because a few bad apples were attacking people in there city. if im attacked in a city i dont go there again, militas are not forcing people to be in there city, its like a freaking tef, if you dont want one dont attack the rebel or imp npc, and if you do have a tef you dong go prancing around where there are tons of overt enemys. so if your gonna remove citywarn get rid of tefs, and factions for that matter, we wouldnt want people getting killed and all.
STOP giving us things then taking them away!
Now people of the opposting faction can stay right by ctiy hall and shout #@%$ all day long 
And you can't talk about changes to the city milita? That silly, you can talk about the bad but not the good?
Plinka wrote:
1. /citywarn has been removed from the game.
This one deserves a bit of explanation. It turns out that the biggest single use that the player base put this command to was griefing other players. It was also being used to "control" POIs and deny everyone equal access.
Well, of course griefers are using it more. Opportunities for reasonable players to use it are few and far between, so naturally instances of abuse are going to far outnumber legitimate uses. It doesn't mean the command's broken, it means there are loopholes that need to be closed. As far as I can tell, there are two major griefing problems:
- POI Control - People are using cities based around POI to control access to those points. If that's not intended, either remove the ability to use militia commands within a certain radius of the POI, or remove the cities from a certain radius of the POI. There was little hesitation to torpedo all the cities surrounding the Lok Imperial Outpost, might as well go for it again for cities around Bunkers and other spawns.
- Clone Camping - People are warning and subsequently DBing people, having them respawn at their city's cloning facility, then repeating the process endlessly. Again, there seem to be two easy options: give the cloned an extra window of immunity or longer timer so they have an opportunity to escape the city, or provide them a second choice to clone safely at the nearest Non-player City.
Plinka wrote:
Since non-consentual PvP was never intended to be part of SW:G, this command has been removed from TC and soon from Live servers.
As intended, /citywarn is not nonconsensual PVP (darn double negatives). Properly implemented, it should allow the target more than enough time to opt out of the confrontation if they so desire. That it doesn't is a problem, but one that can be fixed without junking the whole system.
More concerning than any player griefing is the sense that the gap between the development side of the game and the players' side of the game is widening again. Recent problems with items disappearing from vendors and cities being drifted into oblivion have been met with little more than indifferent shrugs. They maintained that player city caps would not be met despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In this instance, rather than seeing how the command is actually being used (or not used) in game, they've simply let a limited number of high-profile problems determine the entire course of the game and removed a huge chunk of city life as a result.
phijawrio's clone
Mayor of Cookieville
Plinka wrote:
1. /citywarn has been removed from the game.
This one deserves a bit of explanation. It turns out that the biggest single use that the player base put this command to was griefing other players. It was also being used to "control" POIs and deny everyone equal access.
Since non-consentual PvP was never intended to be part of SW:G, this command has been removed from TC and soon from Live servers.
This means the role of militia is not as originally envisioned as well, so we can expect some possible changes there too, but there's nothing solid I can talk about yet.
This in my opinion is one of the discombobulated decisions in a series of said decisions by Sony DEVs...
Griefing will never go away, trying to control it like this will only result in players being more distructivly creative.
Non-consentual PvP happens when you gain a TEF, period - from healing, trading, or even running your own missions. How are these TEF's any dissimilar? They're consentual? So is the /citywarn one.
By not leaving the city, you have consented to stay and fight. If 30seconds isn't enought (and in some city's that are well defended, it's not, 60seconds isn't enough time if you don't know the layout). Increase the time alotted to leave the city. Giving those people whom wish to not be involved in PvP to leave, otherwise they're agreeing to stay and fight.
I'm glad to the cloning fix tho, /citybann'ed zombies on a battlefield made alot of GCW stuff pointless, and the loss of bases/turrets etcdue to that obnoxious bug expensive.
It's sad so many decisions like this are made for the people that do not understand the game, and fail to be able to READ WHAT"S ON YOUR SCREEN. If you don't leave, you WILL become attackable, simply leave the city limits, and you'll be fine. Choosing not to leave, and the militia I'm a part of, will eat you alive and send you cloning.
'Nuff said.
Just adding my "boo" to the list. Devs: fix the POI / City overlap issue and let the other player-run cities dictate their own happiness. Yes, "punish" the city for your own mistake - they new the POI was there. If the mayor claims that they did not, that's a city that wouldn't last long anyway. Take out the trash now and let our militias do the same.
/citywarn is needed to STOP griefing far more than it can be used to CAUSE griefing. Period. How many people actually sat at a table and said "yeah, let's do that"? Yikes.
So much more to say, but won't bother.