Politician Archive
Thread: How Will the New Vendor Changes Affect Cities?
yoda101705
Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:56 am
#14
Traie wrote:
I haven't forced myself to sit down and read that whole thread, but a friend of mine told me Tiggs updated at one point saying that you can buy from whereever, but have to physically goto the vendor to pick it up.
You are correct. Tiggs did make a post saying that the instant delivery system will get an overhaul of sorts. She said that players WILL have to travel to the vendor to retrieve the item. As long as players have to travel to the vendor to retrieve items, this is probably going to help player cities more than hurt them. Now, people will have access to vendors they wouldn't typically see and the end result can be more traffic through your city.
Perill
Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:36 am
#15
I haven't been here since beta like most of the people that post here, but my understandings of the way the bazaar should have worked was: The bazaar was only a directory, it wasn't meant to store items, You purchased an add for an item you wish to sell, then the bazaar would send the purchaser an email with a WP to the spot that it was sold at for you to pick it up.. hence the current day emails you get with a WP to the spot you are standing at,75% of the time.
I feel this is gonna only hurt the vendor malls on my server but not the main player cities that are working together. Vendor Cities is a great concept, but most of the designs hurt more than help. I spend hours going through vendor cities, I turn on the overhead map to see what's listed and all i have is a white cloud over my head of vender titles, and those merchants who aren't able to register with the planet get missed. Spacing out vendors and vendor houses makes a world of difference, but were not here to discuss city house placement....
The way this is gonna hurt player/vendor cities is such. Merchants who strategically place vendors in hot spots. On Shadowfire, Mos Krayt Vendor/player city is near the Krayt Dragon Graveyard, My friend has a vendor for armor there, he also in brenn, Cobra La, and 2 other places. Why stock 5 vendors when 1 vendor can hold 4,000 items, and this armorsmith that has merchant tent properties in 5 different cities won't be paying taxes, shuttle fees, blah blah.. and can turn around and use those lots for harvestors to reduce his cost for resources... instant delivery from another planet/city will definitly kill vendor cities, and the merchant profession. Crafters will only have to stock 1 vendor of thier wares. Being an architect, I won't have to build 20 large houses and spread them out to 4 different vendor locations and paying shuttle fees.. im being repetitive.. you guys get the idea..
Thumbs up attaching player vendors to the bazaar selection,
Free advertisement for my merchant tent is always acceptable.
Thumbs down to Instant Delivery.
Need to keep people coming to the cities, need to keep player exploring the game, that's part of the excitement. Noobies shouldn't rely on being carried, make them walk so they will be strong later.Having people arrive in the city and see what people are like there, is pure interaction, which this game DEFINITLY NEEDS MORE OF!!!!!!!!!!! Tired of it feeling like a single player Diablo game! Every person is a prime citizen, it's how you go about convincing them they need to change 
Furthermore, you have the email system with WP to those vendors ALREADY FUNCTIONING without error.... why break something that's not broke???
Perill
Mayor of Cobra La
Naboo, Shadowfire
P.S.I am the laziest person in the world. I will buy something on the bazaar but don't go pick it up for 25 days later just because I don't feel like moving. I feel there are other things that you could be spending time on... like fixing the container bug when loading a vendor....Part of the way the economy is, if you want the convience, you'll pay the price... IE real life 7-11's vs Sam's Club... 7/11 is in your face, Sam's club is hidden in some mall pack..
Perill/Pearly Bluee
CoretDenvin
Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:31 pm
#16
I hadn't even thought of the idea about having to travel to the vendor to pick up an item then the merchant charging a 50k entry fee. That part definitely needs addressed.
This is one of those double edged sword issues. Its got both major pro's and major con's.
This is one of those double edged sword issues. Its got both major pro's and major con's.
MDEUK
Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:46 pm
#17
cosno wrote:
Might I suggest that SOE does what the do in EQ2 - - - - if the individual wants the instand delivery they pay an extra 20%.
In EQ2 you can buy from the broker (SWG would call it the bazaar) or you can do directly to that toons vendor to buy they item. If you chose to buy through the broker you pay an extra 20% broker fee.
This is an excellent idea... Benefits both the seller and the buyer, and perhaps some of the money could go to cities where the vendors are based?
However, I think that it is important that player cities are seen are more than glorified shopping malls... They need to have some other purpose to keep people going there.
When I founded my first city, its close proximity to a nearby POI was its major attraction, together with its strong community... I think that Mayor's need to focus on giving people a reason to visit their cities other than just trade.
______________________________________
deltayn & chiaca darkfire
jedi knight + master hunter / master tracker
tracking, hunting and harvesting to order...
tracking, hunting and harvesting to order...
TheLemming
Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:38 am
#18
When I first saw this I thought it was a joke. The main problem I see is people getting lost in the flood of search results they'll get. I know that it's hard enough to navigate my own vendor after the slicer visits and I have 50+ of each item with various slices...I can hardly imagine trying to search through every vendor on tatooine like this.
As for the bazaar terminal...I don't understand why they want to mix items together like this. The bazaar has always functioned as a way for merchants to sell their lower grade stock easily to the masses, and a way for those without merchant to sell lower value items easily. It serves this purpose very well.
What I would like to see is an additional tab added to the bazaar. Here, separate from the bazaar, you could search for vendor items either by type or by vendor (by vendor acting like the planet map display of vendors), but not actually buy them. Instead of a buy button, it would have a "save waypoint" button so you could go to that vendor and buy the item.
What I would REALLY like would be for this search function to require your vendor to be placed in a player city. Without that I can see merchants abandoning player cities to drop a merchant tent by a major NPC city for easy pick-up without a system of delivery, or just placing a vendor anywhere to avoid the possibility of tax (if it's ever fixed) with a system of delivery. I believe I read in one of the posts that people should be active in their cities for other reasons than commerce, and that the issue of commerce is separate from cities. This, in my view, is completely wrong. I can't think of a city that doesn't have a large commerce district. Commerce is one of the main reasons for people to come to a city... As an added bonus, this might finally get people to pull back from the edge of the major cities and remove the solid wall of houses around most NPC cities.
I believe this addition has a lot less to do with people stocking their vendors, and a lot more to do with trying to stop people from standing in cities and spamming spatial with vendor locations. Giving them a way to search for items that are above what is sold on bazaar would solve that problem, and still requiring them to go to the vendor, find the item, and buy it as usual would maintain the ability to draw people into other purchases. The interdependence of merchants is also vastly underrated. I invited a chef to place a vendor in my WS tent because I knew that his customer base would end up surfing my vendor as well. I also put up a rare items vendor to bring in more people. The result of both of these actions was increased sales. It would be sad if there was no point to this sort of interaction.
To sum all of this up, I'm all for getting rid of spatial spam and making it easier for potential customers to find the merchants. I hope, however, that we can do this without reducing the interdependence of merchants, and without permanently stripping player cities of their best shot at supporting themselves.
As for the bazaar terminal...I don't understand why they want to mix items together like this. The bazaar has always functioned as a way for merchants to sell their lower grade stock easily to the masses, and a way for those without merchant to sell lower value items easily. It serves this purpose very well.
What I would like to see is an additional tab added to the bazaar. Here, separate from the bazaar, you could search for vendor items either by type or by vendor (by vendor acting like the planet map display of vendors), but not actually buy them. Instead of a buy button, it would have a "save waypoint" button so you could go to that vendor and buy the item.
What I would REALLY like would be for this search function to require your vendor to be placed in a player city. Without that I can see merchants abandoning player cities to drop a merchant tent by a major NPC city for easy pick-up without a system of delivery, or just placing a vendor anywhere to avoid the possibility of tax (if it's ever fixed) with a system of delivery. I believe I read in one of the posts that people should be active in their cities for other reasons than commerce, and that the issue of commerce is separate from cities. This, in my view, is completely wrong. I can't think of a city that doesn't have a large commerce district. Commerce is one of the main reasons for people to come to a city... As an added bonus, this might finally get people to pull back from the edge of the major cities and remove the solid wall of houses around most NPC cities.
I believe this addition has a lot less to do with people stocking their vendors, and a lot more to do with trying to stop people from standing in cities and spamming spatial with vendor locations. Giving them a way to search for items that are above what is sold on bazaar would solve that problem, and still requiring them to go to the vendor, find the item, and buy it as usual would maintain the ability to draw people into other purchases. The interdependence of merchants is also vastly underrated. I invited a chef to place a vendor in my WS tent because I knew that his customer base would end up surfing my vendor as well. I also put up a rare items vendor to bring in more people. The result of both of these actions was increased sales. It would be sad if there was no point to this sort of interaction.
To sum all of this up, I'm all for getting rid of spatial spam and making it easier for potential customers to find the merchants. I hope, however, that we can do this without reducing the interdependence of merchants, and without permanently stripping player cities of their best shot at supporting themselves.
Akaara
Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:51 am
#19
CoretDenvin wrote:
I hadn't even thought of the idea about having to travel to the vendor to pick up an item then the merchant charging a 50k entry fee. That part definitely needs addressed.
I doubt many merchants would do this. You may get a few but I doubt this would be a major issue.
VirindiStalker
Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:39 am
#20
CoretDenvin wrote:
Do you think the new Galactic Wide Vendor Bazaar will cause a decrease in traffic to your player cities fellow mayors?... Perhaps we could add a *cough* sales tax or something to benefit the towns?
Cosno wrote:
Might I suggest that SOE does what the do in EQ2... if the individual wants the instand delivery they pay an extra 20%. In EQ2 you can buy from the broker (SWG would call it the bazaar) or you can do directly to that toons vendor to buy they item. If you chose to buy through the broker you pay an extra 20% broker fee.
MDEUK wrote:
This is an excellent idea... Benefits both the seller and the buyer, and perhaps some of the money could go to cities where the vendors are based?
I think you three are seriously onto something! Yes CoretDenvin, fixing sales tax would be a must, and that should be charged on the price WHEREVER it's bought. I agree 100%.
I also think Cosno's seriously onto something though. After all, one of the major handicaps for smaller merchants is their lack of presence in the "Name Brand Conglomerate" malls.
[Note: That kinda stings as my PA *WAS* such a name-brand conglomerate--The Galactic Conglomerate, actually. Now that my Armorsmith alt is struggling to compete, I feel kinda bad for those unknown peeps we undoubtedly drove out of business...]
This is where I must respectfully disagree with some people: Yeah, the price competition may hurt the small producer at first in this shake-up, but lower resource prices that the little guy may not otherwise have time to shop for now have a fighting chance to make their goods as cheaply. They also now have equal access where before the BRANDNAME malls could keep them out. In essence, WITHOUT this searching feature, the little guy will always have a rough time of it.
So I am with Cosno as well--the "deliver" feature SHOULD range from 5-20% of the item's cost. But instead of a "broker", we go with MDEUK's idea of the money going to cities!
I say we have a city delivery service. Just like with shuttleports, (money to Galactic Travel Comission and city) the money cost from the move can go to the generic planetary delivery service and the city coffers!
Now this is a win-win! Peeps don't need to travel as much if they're willing to pay, and cities make more money than ever (even if sales taxes are never fixed)!
And this also helps merchants: By reducing travel, the good are MORE likely to be bought, rather than just buying from a name-brand conglomerate. And by having the wp as an alternative to the 20%, the decerning shoppers still make their rounds into the cities (especially for the big luxury items, like 1,000,000c Sith Alters and such).
GrooperNugent
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:48 am
#21
I'm a little worried about how the items are listed...I can easily see the day when naming your wares: "AAAAAAAAAAA Vasarian Brandy" becomes the norm to get it to the top of the search list. It's bad enough in RL.
TheLemming
Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:59 pm
#22
MDEUK wrote:
cosno wrote:Might I suggest that SOE does what the do in EQ2 - - - - if the individual wants the instand delivery they pay an extra 20%.In EQ2 you can buy from the broker (SWG would call it the bazaar) or you can do directly to that toons vendor to buy they item. If you chose to buy through the broker you pay an extra 20% broker fee.This is an excellent idea... Benefits both the seller and the buyer, and perhaps some of the money could go to cities where the vendors are based?
However, I think that it is important that player cities are seen are more than glorified shopping malls... They need to have some other purpose to keep people going there.
When I founded my first city, its close proximity to a nearby POI was its major attraction, together with its strong community... I think that Mayor's need to focus on giving people a reason to visit their cities other than just trade.
______________________________________
deltayn & chiaca darkfirejedi knight + master hunter / master tracker
tracking, hunting and harvesting to order...
I really don't like this idea... One of the reasons is that the "high rollers" that will always pay the 20% without even thinking are the ones that usually make impulse and associated buys when they come to buy something. Beyond that...20% really isn't that much unless you're talking about special/enhanced items. It's just like how people don't even think to banktip for buffs in ahazi to make a line...the 10% is nothing.
Any delivery service could also result in the death of merchants as we know them. They won't need to make a nicer shop, have a good location, get together with other merchants, organize their items across vendors, or do any of the other things that makes merchant interesting and worth taking up now. They'll just put one vendor in the entryway to their crafting house with everything thrown on it. Again, I'm all for convenience, but let's not gut another profession to get it.
Riki_CFNL
Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:09 am
#23
"I think browsing from wherever will reward those who put an effort into it. As long as the person has to go pick it up, they will still see what else is there. It will be more effective at passing up cities that rest on past laurels and reputations no longer deserved & give all cities an equal chance at people seeing what they have to offer as long as they have merchants who are competitive and competent enough to draw customers." -Moonkat
I was thinking this was a bad idea until I read what Moonkat said. This will bring people to cities long forgoten or simply never discovered, as long as people are forced to go retrieve it. I dont like the broker stuff unless the 20% goes to the merchant.
There's my 2 cents.
I was thinking this was a bad idea until I read what Moonkat said. This will bring people to cities long forgoten or simply never discovered, as long as people are forced to go retrieve it. I dont like the broker stuff unless the 20% goes to the merchant.
There's my 2 cents.
HiroBlack
Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:33 am
#24
Like so many of you, I have concerns about the future health and well being of our city.
The commerce center design for player cities is really quite prevalent, and accounts for a large percentage of our drawing power and appeal. I understand and appreciate the motivations behind this move on the part of the development team (it is, like so many other changes, driven by the desire to free up players to actually have fun and adventures), but after investing over a year in building up a city I wonder what we can do to draw people there now.
If people are going to be able to pick up goods from any vendor anywhere from a bazaar term, what is the development team putting in place to compensate us? I don't mind the challenge of reiventing the focus of our city, but if it isn't going to be commerce, then what? I reviewed the event tools they are proposing (yey!) and unless I put in 40+ hours a week into planning and executing event after event, I can not see how this is going to be an adequete substitute.
I love the idea of our vendors being listed on the bazaar, and I am unafraid of the competition - the ecconomic factors will balance out in the end, and a fair balance between price and quality will be borne out. I would think that the simple solution would be to have players just go to the vendor and pick up the product, as it was in beta. I see in this thread that people are saying that Tiggs said something like that was in the works, but I personally could not track down the post from her on that.
EDIT - Okay, I did find that post from Tiggs. I feel much better now that the Powers That Be are considering our point of view, and may be having players just go to the vendors and pick up their goods. With JTL out and 60 second transport waits, I figure that this will be a good thing for everyone.
Message Edited by HiroBlack on 02-14-2005 11:05 AM
BT-Trajan
Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:33 am
#25
As a Mayor --
I consider this to be something that will seriously harm the traffic in my player-city of Aurora. We built a good city and have a mall and business district as a major draw for non citizens to visit the city. While I am sure that people come to out city just to say high, try to destroy our Rebel bases and then spend time getting drunk in one of our cantinas, the majority of outside people come for the vendors.
As an Architect and Merchant --
I love the idea of vendors being searchable from ahywhere. I do not like the idea of their stock being puchasable across "The net". I rely on people coming to Aurora to purchase items from my vendors and then shop the other merchants in town. I want that interaction between the customer and the seller. My customers often talk with me before and after purchasing an item and I firmly belive that this change to the system will take out that component from the selling. Creating a SWG-EBAY is a bad bad bad idea. Will they also create a SWG-UPS service to deliver the packages? I can just see it now -- a small brown Y-wing pulls up at the starport, blocks traffic, an a furry bothan jumps out with a package under one arm and a clip board under the other. (sorry...for the sarcasm...)
Anyhow...
By removing the interactivity of customer and crafter/merchant the developers will reduce the immersive quality of this game. They will remove yet another aspect of this game that many of us come to play it for and drive it further to a game catering to console, first person shooter, players. Making people travel -- keeping an element of "distance" in this game is essential to sustaining Stawarsy Feeling. (IMHO).
Thanks for bringing this topic to our attention!
Cheers!
Pappi
Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:15 pm
#26
oops, forgot to post before unstickying...
they're postponing these changes and are working them out, so we're safe for now O.o
they're postponing these changes and are working them out, so we're safe for now O.o
