Politician Archive

Thread: Um....Baj? I'm not sure this is a good idea on TC...

Daedreuv
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:49 am
#118

This is INSANE I pay to play I have many alts which I have the RIGHT TO and now you are going to delete


my houses because I don't play them very often this is WRONG WRONG no where does it say in the


agreement that I must play each account X amount of time this is my money I pay to play and yes some of


my alts are in cities......so what who cares about city swaps if someone has the money to pay for 10 20 30


or 50 houses there is nothing in the RULES that says you can't....I have 10 lots that is 10 small naboo


houses or 10 harvesters SOE why don't you fix the things that are really broken...


Havoclord
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:14 am
#119

Slow down guys - it doesn't say anything about your stuff being deleted - it just says that you will no longer count as a citizen. This makes perfect sense and SOE have no choice but to do this...


I have been in so many player cities that are continually empty, it must be the case that these cities are ghost towns with pretend citizens, or they simply are not being run well. This doesn't add anything to the game, and prevents other people from having an opportunity to build true player cities.


So, having people removed as citizens after a short time (it should be 4 weeks if you ask me) will remove the benefits of cheating the system by doing cross-server lot swaps and will punish those cities which are simply dead and adding nothing to the game, to allow other people a chance at doing it better.


As the mayor of a large, successful, genuine Metropolis, I welcome this and look forward to seeing some of the less than bona-fide cities fall by the way side.


The only people who should worry about this our cities made up of people who are not real players - a normal , thriving city will have nothing to fear - if you lose a genuine citizen for a couple of days because they have been away on an extended break, they can just declare citizenship again when they are back. No big problem - a mayor is not doing a good job of losing 1 or 2 citizens will have a big negative impact on the city.


Yours,




Delano Duvivier ::Elder Master Commando
Onaled Duvivier :: Elder Dark Jedi Knight

Founder & Mayor of Darkfire / Founder of DFG
Please drop auction winnings on myvendorat -120 -580 in Darkfire Malll on Tatooine. Ta!
Fidgiter
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:35 am
#120

"Wow, one thing that is becoming very clear to me in reading this thread is that there are a lot of cities and mayors out there that are desperately dependent on inactive players to meet thier citizen requirements."


My PA has alot of military folks. Some haven't even gotten back from overseas to become citizens and others have been deployed with their houses waiting for their return. Should I interview would be citizens and say, "Sorry, you are US Military and thus a waste of space in my town and would have a negative impact on the long term survival of the city"?


My city has some College students. Needless to say they are on alot and off alot for periods of time. Should I interview would be citizens and say, "Sorry, your education should take a backseat to SWG. Get a computer and internet connection at your Dorm or I will be forced to deny you zoning because you would be a risk to the city"?


My city has some folks who are sick and tired of bad short term bad decisions made by SOE. Should I interview people who would be citizens and say, "Sorry, you must have blind loyalty and faith in SOE and even if you think the game sucks you must continue to pay and play. Either give this blind trust or you can't settle into my city"?


**edit** straight I'm concerned about loosing inactive players because the inactive players I have are either doing their duty to the country overseas, pursuing an education, are frustrated but waiting for much needed POSITIVE changes to the game or just have real world obligations that have them away for periods of time. I will NOT deny citizenship to people nor will I find myself CRIPPLED by giving them a SWG home to live in while they are able to play.


It is wrong for them, it is wrong for the more active folks, and it is wrong for the Mayor that is forced to make these policy decisions to protect the city. It is the type of short term bad decision making that MAKES inactive players and leads to cancelled accounts.


The irony of it all is this: If this is implimented and I am in jeopardy of loosing a city rank I will seek out Ghosts to prop the city up. I had stayed steadfast to not condoning this practice but I'll do whatever it takes to protect the interests of the MAJORITY of my city who are paying SOE customers. I'm better off with a ghost than a US Army Reservist and that is wrong.


"But those of us limited by the caps shouldn't be permanently stuck there because city sizes are artificially inflated due to non-playing citizens."


They need a solution to ghosts and this is not it. A ghost is more dependable than someone in the Military, College or a Consultant. At least the ghost can be asked to spend 5 minutes every 3 weeks to log in. This short sighted solution means cities should DENY citizenship to these folks and get ghosts instead or they are screwed. That is wrong on so many levels.

"The only people who should worry about this our cities made up of people who are not real players"

I strongly disagree on this. The only people that should worry about this are the cities that are made up of casual players or those who are military, students, parents or contractors. Ghost cities will hardly be impacted and this would actually INCREASE ghost citizenry.


When a person looses citizenship because they haven't been on for 3 or 6 weeks the house, harvesters and factories owned and operated by that player should vanish into their packs. This should happen automatically the moment someone actively cancels their account (or 3-6 weeks after it expires). The real estate available to the city is limited and the loss of space is almost as bad as the loss of good and REAL people who just happen to have real world obligations that keep them away for periods of time.


Mayor Feliz Gizmacher, Founder of Dune Retreat



Mayor Feliz, RSO Commanding Officer
FidgitCo Construction, Droid and Starships
Furnishing the Galaxy since September 2003
Dune Retreat Mall, Tatooine
Newton13
Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:50 am
#121

In perspective.. a deleted character's house will poof within 3 days at most. I had one "live" that sent me an e-mail in game that they were deleting the character and "you (me) can re-claim the house, since it has (over a year's worth of) maintenance in it.."


Needless to say, since I was not the OWNER of the structure.. it only lingered the 3 days after I got the e-mail.


So, deleted character property will be freed up right away.


Are they proposing to delete inactive characters from the server? ...... I thought not.




and... how DARE you call me a "rogue city" or "invalid city" if I have a few "placeholders" ?? 94% of my city is LIVE. I get really annoyed when I hear those phrases; I had to eat one city hall due to a bug.. but SOE's public announcement is "loss of rogue cities" ...


grrr..






----------
Twi'leks have more fun.
Bajeezus
Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:10 am
#122

Hey folks. I haven't gotten feedback from the devs or TH yet on this, but then again I didn't post it on the correspondent's forum until Friday afternoon.


Anyway, I'm going to unsticky this thread now. Feel free to keep discussion going, but unless you all have some big compromise breakthrough or one side just gets the other to plain old give up, I'm not sure that more back and forth on this one issue is going to produce any new results.
Sevarhin
Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:24 pm
#123

Baj,

I'm concerned that your message did not include the "relic houses" issue. Many of us have no problem with kicking old inactives, but letting their houses continue to take up the room in the city is a major technical problem with their proposed solution.

It has been a major and uncontested point throughout this thread. It could cripple cities. Please make sure this is brought to their attention - regardless of whether or not they decide to prune inactives, any such action needs to be thought out alot better than this one has been. I *really* don't want to be fighting this battle after we've already been worked over and are saddled with city-blocking landmines in the form of undecayed houses of inactive players.




Tranquility Shipyards
Vendor wp: -3291 5615 (Tranquility, Naboo)
Founder of Tranquility, Ahazi's first Player City

Garanimals
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:12 pm
#124

The amusing thing about this thread, and all the responses in it, is that they all hinge on one or two rank specific buildings. I can almost garauntee 100% that if people were allowed to place whatever structures they wanted as soon as a city was active, then they probably wouldnt care about the ranking of their city.


Why shouldnt the mayor and citizens be able to place a shuttleport at rank 2? They will pay the same as a large city, in fact the lower number of citizens will mean each one pays more for that privilege, ditto cloning center. It boggles my mind to think that a governmental institution would deny service to an entity that is willing and able to pay the taxes/fees for a rquested service, yet here it is.


Thats my solution, remove the rank requirements for civic buildings. Those who boast of active cities will be unaffected, and those who float on the edge will not have to worry as long as they are willing and able to bear the extra burden of the building maintenance fees.
Sevarhin
Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:26 pm
#125


Abido wrote:

This is very simple.

If you, as the Mayor, allowed a player to place their home (not counting those that were already in the streets) by granting zoning rights..........you made a decision on that person, sink or swim, to allow them to take up your space. This, like many of your other decisions, will have to be lived with, and you are responsible for.

- Vacations: If you have countless citizens all taking vacations at the same time, what exactly is your gripe over another city getting ahead of you during these waves of folks taking breaks?

- Military: God Bless those that serve their country. They will still have a house when they return, but the City shouldn't expect to stay ahead of other cities during military leave. Your arguments to the contrary are MORE unfair to those actively playing.

The brass tax truth of this whole dilemma is that you are responsible for every Bot House, every Military member, every vacationer, every Ghost Home. In the end, you should be weighed, measured, and if inadequate to another City, be found wanting.

Set yourselves up to be beat by others. In turn, have the opportunity to outpace another City. Don't let the first 15 minutes of that first placing day be the ruling timeframe that dictates what cities dominate a planet FOREVER! Thank you for reading this post.





That "we shouldn't be behind cities who were established first" sentiment comes across as sour grapes. Someone doesn't like the outcome of a situation where they were beaten, so they want to re-write the rules... well, of course they do.

Furthermore, no new or newly-grown cities will necessarily be any better off than any other well-built non-bot city that gets handicapped by this proposal. It's a bad idea - for everyone. The chance that some minority might benefit short-term from a random juggling is irrelevant, and does nothing to mitigate the serious long-term flaws in this plan.

Finally, the suggestion that the Mayor is responsible for *anything* (other than bot houses) that might lead to an empty house taking up city space as a result of this proposal is ludicrous. SOE, if anyone, bears responsibility for player attrition. Accusing the mayor of some sort of fictional negligence if the city suffers due to this flawed proposal is not only a bizaare failure of logic, it is an insult to the dedicated mayors of strong and growing cities everywhere.




Tranquility Shipyards
Vendor wp: -3291 5615 (Tranquility, Naboo)
Founder of Tranquility, Ahazi's first Player City

WildmanHT
Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:00 pm
#126

LMAO Sevarhin... "Sour grapes"......Couldnt of said it better..



WildmannHT Mayor, Ville Sura, Naboo: Wanderhome
Wildman - Original Master ShipWright when JTL came out

Naboo City of Ville Sura Ship Vendors: -2115 934
Ship Parts Vendors and Misc. Also home of THE THIEVES MASTER SHIPWRIGHTS

http://www.horsethieves.net> HT HorseThieves--
"In outlaw country, a man only has one chance to mind his own business"
FlyingElmo
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:30 am
#127

Where is Thunderheart to straighten this out
Abido
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:50 am
#128







That "we shouldn't be behind cities who were established first" sentiment comes across as sour grapes. Someone doesn't like the outcome of a situation where they were beaten, so they want to re-write the rules... well, of course they do.




Wrong. The fact that you're actually supporting they way Cities were given to the community on its first day shows where you stand right there. Seriously ask yourself if my City beats the tar out of yours for the last 2 months, would you hide behind that first 15 minute window on that first day the best you could?

Thank you for supporting my point......being beaten is now being redefined. SWG didn't intend on all this server-swap love, so they are creating a vehicle to make that difficult. Support it, or find yourself going the way of the Do-Do.


Let's say I was running the City to take your spot. You would claim that your precious 15 minutes qualifies as "beating" another.....even if that other town has outpaced, outgrown, and outsold your town for the last 2 months? Hide behind your 15 minutes all you want, it was supposed to be fleeting, and it should be. Your statement that 15 minutes >2 months of tail-kicking is, in your words, ludicrous.






Furthermore, no new or newly-grown cities will necessarily be any better off than any other well-built non-bot city that gets handicapped by this proposal. It's a bad idea - for everyone. The chance that some minority might benefit short-term from a random juggling is irrelevant, and does nothing to mitigate the serious long-term flaws in this plan.





This paragraph is choking in fouled opinion. This system creates a common City issue that we'll all have to deal with. Anything that brings a common issue to the cities helps them be measured together, and thus, your city will be weighed against peers. Are you up to the task? Or would you like to continue hiding behind 15 minutes from 4 months ago. Its not a bad idea for me in any way, shape or form. There are no long-term flaws in this plan.....you're actually arguing that an active, fluctuating City environment (one which we all follow this same rule) is far worse than the "Re-Declaring Residence" of those that come back from breaks?

Try again.






Finally, the suggestion that the Mayor is responsible for *anything* (other than bot houses) that might lead to an empty house taking up city space as a result of this proposal is ludicrous. SOE, if anyone, bears responsibility for player attrition. Accusing the mayor of some sort of fictional negligence if the city suffers due to this flawed proposal is not only a bizaare failure of logic, it is an insult to the dedicated mayors of strong and growing cities everywhere.






You allowed the player to place. You typed /grantzoningrights (unless an existing house is in the space). We all suffer attrition. Other than the colorful word "ludicrous", how is it that you don't share some responsiblity? Oh, I remember now. Its something that will help another city overtake you, thats why its ludicrous. We have a very different Player Class. One of the aspects is dealing with who moves in, and who quits. You allow folks to move in, and their long-term effects are indeed an element to which you were a part. Its part of our, very different, game of Politician where *gasp*, we actually see the pros and cons of our actions over time.


SOE, if anyone, bears responsibility for player attrition. <--- I agree


If my City outgrows, outpaces, and beats yours in every way measurable (other than those15 minutes 4 months ago), then why shouldn't my City overtake yours? Are you having trouble understanding this concept? Yes, I think you are......because it threatens you with being on the losing end. Not only am I explaining my position, but you're defending a position that is very unsettling. You actually want to stop a tool that will hurt Cities with bot houses. Vacationers! the Military! Schoobreak Kids! Now that is a bizarre failure of logic.









Abido Spin- Colonel
Eclipse Politician/Pistoleer- Techno Union
Winner of the "Grumpy Award" 2003
Grand Moff of Techno City 6300 -3600 Naboo.
For screenies of Techno City and the The Seven Wonders of Abido
Abido
Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:24 am
#129

This is very simple.


If you, as the Mayor, allowed a player to place their home (not counting those that were already in the streets) by granting zoning rights..........you made a decision on that person, sink or swim, to allow them to take up your space. This, like many of your other decisions, will have to be lived with, and you are responsible for.


- Vacations: If you have countless citizens all taking vacations at the same time, what exactly is your gripe over another city getting ahead of you during these waves of folks taking breaks?


- Military: God Bless those that serve their country. They will still have a house when they return, but the City shouldn't expect to stay ahead of other cities during military leave. Your arguments to the contrary are MORE unfair to those actively playing.


The brass tax truth of this whole dilemma is that you are responsible for every Bot House, every Military member, every vacationer, every Ghost Home. In the end, you should be weighed, measured, and if inadequate to another City, be found wanting.


Set yourselves up to be beat by others. In turn, have the opportunity to outpace another City. Don't let the first 15 minutes of that first placing day be the ruling timeframe that dictates what cities dominate a planet FOREVER! Thank you for reading this post.







Abido Spin- Colonel
Eclipse Politician/Pistoleer- Techno Union
Winner of the "Grumpy Award" 2003
Grand Moff of Techno City 6300 -3600 Naboo.
For screenies of Techno City and the The Seven Wonders of Abido
ogre840
Tue Jan 27, 2004 8:16 am
#130

I really don't like this. Currently 1 of my citizens is away getting ready to be shipped out to Iraq, and my right hand man is also a military man! i don't want to lose them in my city just for fighting to keep us safe! somthings not right here.



Imperial Mayor of Dark Rune on Tatooine. 2km Northwest of Bestine on Corbantis.

Achitect, artisan, politician, and rifleman.
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