Politician Archive
Thread: Money Sink is One thing.. but seriously
i aggree that there is just way too much money out there... but the maitance has got to be toned down a bit.. i just finished doing the math .. on what our city will cost at the as soon as i lay the last 6 parks..
we are a metropolis.. we are about 100 citizens.. with a few 20 member guilds petitioning to move in.. we have research specialization.,.. and our city will cost 1.05 million a week.. yeah ... with 100 people.. (yes all active) that is only 10k a week.. but for the casuall player.. that could be half his income.. for that week..
our city has quite a few that average at least 100k -200k a week.. and then we have a handfull of multimillionares.. but it is not fair to put all the burdon on them ..
i was talking today with a few mayors on my server.. and we need something that we can do for our cities that will do two things.. give people a reason to visit our cities.. other than just running from shuttleport to vender to shuttleport.. (yeah as each day passes more and more people are hanging out in our city .. but still motivation will help) and.... a way for these visitors to contribute to the city treasury .. more than the 100 dollar shuttleport kickback.. (which can be skipped if u buy a roundtrip ticket from a npc city .. )...
so .. either .. maitance has got to be toned down.. (id almost say 50%) or other things have got to start kicken back to the city .. trainers.. mission terminals.. clonecenter..
we have a huge city .. i dont think it should be cheap.. but.. 1.05 mil.. for not even enough item limit room to put streetlamps.. down.. is pushing it
oh side note.. sure would be nice to be able to sit down on our park benches ^^
That's the main problem with this game...the higher ups don't think we pay enough taxes and other crap in real life, so we pay to also pay a game that's almost just a big of a pain in the ass. With that being said, allow me to recap:
IT'S A GAME!!! WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE BIG HOUSES, FAST SPEEDERS, AND ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT BE DEEMED AS FUN OR NEAT TO HAVE, JUST FOR THE SIMPLE FACT IT BRINGS ENJOYMENT TO THOSE WHO PAY...ER, I MEAN PLAY!!!
An overabundance of credits will always be a problem because sooner or later everyone will have everything there is to have in the game, and the credits will begin to stockpile. So SOE, get over it. Bound to happen, and besides, we don't want a "working economy" we live in one already, we don't need to play in one as well.
RoninFrost wrote:
An overabundance of credits will always be a problem because sooner or later everyone will have everything there is to have in the game, and the credits will begin to stockpile. So SOE, get over it. Bound to happen, and besides, we don't want a "working economy" we live in one already, we don't need to play in one as well.
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think most people do, in fact, want a working economy in this game. I know I definetly do. Money sinks are just a fact of life in an MMORPG. Mission terminals can put in an infinite number of credits into the game, there needs to be those aspects of the game thatalso remove credits from the game and not just move it around.
If you are unwilling to pay for the benefits of having a city, then you should re-thinkwhy you wish to be a part of one.
dont really think i deserved a low start on this.. but oh well...
i am not saying there shouldnt be a money sink.. all i am saying is this particular one is a little unbalanced.... I have many citizens that constantly write me letters apologizing that they couldnt help more... and that is a burden that is making their play less fun... so they should not participate in a player city ??? im sorry i dont think that is an option.. i was one of the first ones on this forum to say .. hey .. it is not suppose to be easy ... when you get max buildings.. max trainers.. max mission terminals.. max decorations.. and your city is costing.. 1+ mil.. a cycle.... you will understand.... me personally i can cover this.. i am concerend about some of the others in my city ...
What I don't understand about the maintenance amount is that "useless" items such as gardens are so costly. These are the items that above all roleplayers want. They serve no real purpose imgame other than to create a unique and more believable world and by no way generate any further income. So mostly these elements are due to exactly that part of the players that do not have "endless" amounts of money ... so again the moneysinks the devs put in are hitting the completly wrong groups.
Up til now we were able to survive. But we only have a few gardens and our city maintenance is "only" a bit over 500k per week, we get about that same income through our (in my eyes moderate) taxes of 500cr income 10% property 3% sales 100cr shuttle (due to lazyness of setting it to 45cr every day :/). But I'd like many more gardens, and more Streetlights ... and I'm very unsure about pavement as I fear it will cost a fortune too 
You have to realize that the maitenance rates are good at where they are currently. Creating a city and maintaining it takes not only a lot of time but a lot of money as well. Did any of you think that cities were going to be cheap and easy to maintain? I sure didn't and I was getting prepared long before player cities came into the game. Cities are suppose to be hard to maintain. All decorations are at about the right price that they should be. The only decoration that I think should be lowered is street lamps.
If you think gardens are "useless" items and are too expensive for you, then don't place them. The devs gave us the options of placing whatever we like and if a city is too expensive, either leave and join another city or take out some of the high cost stuff. Sure the high cost stuff makes your city not only look better but more traffic will come in, but why would you complain about maintenance? Lack of money is the sacrifice you take for having your city be as good as it can get. I just don't understand why everyone wants maitenance to be lower. Cities are suppose to be this hard to maintain and just lowering it will cause more problems than there is now. There aren't suppose to be that many successful cities on each planet. I believe 10 cities max on each planet will last and that is the way it should be. In the Star Wars Galaxy (which of course we play in) there aren't that many cities on a planet. Some planets just have one huge city on it.
Though everyone has their right to an opinion, there is no good argument for lowering maintenance on a city except "we don't have the money for it" and if that is the case, you should not be trying for a city. It might be a grim reality that only the rich will be able to control and maintain a city, but that is how it has been throughout all of history and no way to stop it.
JaronElus wrote:
Though everyone has their right to an opinion, there is no good argument for lowering maintenance on a city except "we don't have the money for it" and if that is the case, you should not be trying for a city. It might be a grim reality that only the rich will be able to control and maintain a city, but that is how it has been throughout all of history and no way to stop it.
here is the one good reason.. not everyone is a power gamer.. but everyone deserves the right to participate in a player city and with the maitance as it is there are people that cant live in a city they dont make the 5k a week extra to pay taxes.. i dont care if the income sorcess are hard to get just as long as there is a way .. with content that those who dont make the big bucks can still participate.. .. i am not asking for player cities to be easier.. heck ..not factoring in the money issue there are still vast amounts of issues that people have to overcome to make the city successful..
plain and simple our city is fine.. we have enough money .. but it was sad that a few people who did everything they could to help had to move becuz they felt they werent contributing their fair share.. that is the issue..
HolyHell wrote:
here is the one good reason.. not everyone is a power gamer.. but everyone deserves the right to participate in a player city and with the maitance as it is there are people that cant live in a city they dont make the 5k a week extra to pay taxes.. i dont care if the income sorcess are hard to get just as long as there is a way .. with content that those who dont make the big bucks can still participate.. .. i am not asking for player cities to be easier.. heck ..not factoring in the money issue there are still vast amounts of issues that people have to overcome to make the city successful..
Yes, exactly! That is how the devs wanted it. The devs did not want to make just anyone to be able to create a city. Creating a city and joining a city are two different things. Even casual gamers (which I am a part of in that category) can make 5k a week for taxes IF your city has that. My city right now only has 2k tax, nothing more. The devs want communities not individual groups, which is what many of the cities are right now. You will hardly find a city that has more than 1-2 PAs and most are all friends. Cities should have different groups that all are there for one purpose, to be in a successful city.
The devs would like to see fewer cities but bigger cities. The bigger your city, the less tax you will need. Why you think a city's boundary is so big? You don't have to be a mayor of a city to play a part in player cities. The reason casual gamers can't play a part is because they decide to create a city of their own instead of joining a city, that is their fault not the devs. Cities were suppose to bring the galaxy together, not just separate them in groups to be seen on the world map.
JaronElus wrote:
HolyHell wrote:
Yes, exactly! That is how the devs wanted it. The devs did not want to make just anyone to be able to create a city. Creating a city and joining a city are two different things. Even casual gamers (which I am a part of in that category) can make 5k a week for taxes IF your city has that. My city right now only has 2k tax, nothing more. The devs want communities not individual groups, which is what many of the cities are right now. You will hardly find a city that has more than 1-2 PAs and most are all friends. Cities should have different groups that all are there for one purpose, to be in a successful city.
The devs would like to see fewer cities but bigger cities. The bigger your city, the less tax you will need. Why you think a city's boundary is so big? You don't have to be a mayor of a city to play a part in player cities. The reason casual gamers can't play a part is because they decide to create a city of their own instead of joining a city, that is their fault not the devs. Cities were suppose to bring the galaxy together, not just separate them in groups to be seen on the world map.
ok.. one.. your presume much.. our city is not one small group.. it is made up of 4 PA's (from 3 diferent countries too) and a large non guilded pa.. your whole point is contradictory .. yeah your right.. the idea of the city is to bring a large group together.. not to have 4 or 5 people support the city .. i could personally bank the maitance if i wanted to.. but that is not the intention of the city .. our taxes are roughly 2.4 k.. a week.. and even at your 2k a week.. it would take 545 citizens to break even.. 210 at 5k taxes.. there are some proffessions that make it very hard to make enough money to cover taxes and get what they need to play there role.. alot of entertainers struggle with money .. but they enjoy performing.. you are say hey drop what u enjoy doing so u can pay your taxes.. especially if u only get 1 or 2 hours of gametime a week..
you paint the picture that I am one of those "eww i got to have a city so i can be king" people.. who didnt put any thought into what they were getting into.. but your wrong here.. we held meetings for a long time befor city came out set up government that is truly controled by the citizens.. more people move in.. 210 citizens is resounable.. in the long run to get.. but even then .. you will be craming people in.. I am sorry but those who live in my city dont want to be a massive grid with no room to move..
and honestly .. all of you speaking on behalf of the devs.. is so annoying.. there really in this forum is only one person with that right.. Bajeezus..
Plain and simple.. everyone has the right to participate ina city .. HIGH taxes limits participation..
once again.. I am not saying city items should be FREE... there just needs to be .. other ways to contribute to the treasury .. that is it.. if that is not possible then costs should be relaxed..
I cant imagine anyone not wanting more ways to contribute to the treasury..
cost of true civic structures, trainers, terminals is ok.
cost of decorative items is excessive.
HolyHell wrote:
ok.. one.. your presume much.. our city is not one small group.. it is made up of 4 PA's (from 3 diferent countries too) and a large non guilded pa.. your whole point is contradictory .. yeah your right.. the idea of the city is to bring a large group together.. not to have 4 or 5 people support the city .. i could personally bank the maitance if i wanted to.. but that is not the intention of the city .. our taxes are roughly 2.4 k.. a week.. and even at your 2k a week.. it would take 545 citizens to break even.. 210 at 5k taxes.. there are some proffessions that make it very hard to make enough money to cover taxes and get what they need to play there role.. alot of entertainers struggle with money .. but they enjoy performing.. you are say hey drop what u enjoy doing so u can pay your taxes.. especially if u only get 1 or 2 hours of gametime a week..
you paint the picture that I am one of those "eww i got to have a city so i can be king" people.. who didnt put any thought into what they were getting into.. but your wrong here.. we held meetings for a long time befor city came out set up government that is truly controled by the citizens.. more people move in.. 210 citizens is resounable.. in the long run to get.. but even then .. you will be craming people in.. I am sorry but those who live in my city dont want to be a massive grid with no room to move..
and honestly .. all of you speaking on behalf of the devs.. is so annoying.. there really in this forum is only one person with that right.. Bajeezus..
Plain and simple.. everyone has the right to participate ina city .. HIGH taxes limits participation..
once again.. I am not saying city items should be FREE... there just needs to be .. other ways to contribute to the treasury .. that is it.. if that is not possible then costs should be relaxed..
I cant imagine anyone not wanting more ways to contribute to the treasury..
For one, I wasn't talking about your city when I said most cities were only small groups. The bigger cities usually do have more than one group in it. My city has 4 PAs total in it. I was referring to the smaller cities that have no chance of growing to a bigger rank without a server swap or massive advertisement.
My question is how is it contradictory? If your taxes are only 2.4k a week, how can anyone not be able to have that amount? If your citizens can afford house maintenance (which they have to be to be even taxed) I am pretty sure they could afford another 3k. Most people have some skill in combat and can go to durni missions on Corellia twice to get the money for taxes which would only take 10-15 minutes. Even ones that only play 2 hours a week can afford that (which personally I don't understand why pay for the game for so little game time) but if they somehow can't, then pay for them yourselves. It is just very hard to believe that anyone without a little work could not get 3k. If your citizens say they like to help more but won't go out and do 2 missions to pay for the tax, well......
Again my entire post was not referring to you directly. There are some mayors out there that just want the power, most that I have met are great people with a sound mind but others well lets just say they have their own reasons. I mean we all hear accounts of mayors destroying the city hall because they might get voted out, that is what I was talking about. So basically your whole post isn't needed because I was not referring to you because most of the politicians that actually take the time to post here are good mayors and want what is best for their city, like you.
The only reason I say the "devs wanted this or that" is because the devs have constantly talked about player cities months before saying what they would like them to be. All I have done was reiterate what I remember that they have said before. I apologize if somehow this does annoy you....
I understand your point that you would like to see alternatives in being able to put money in the treasury, but the way you did it was the wrong way. The reason I countered your points was that all you were doing wascomplaining instead of being productive and giving ideas out on HOW the devs could implement a system of being able to contribute to the treasury in more ways. Devs won't read complaints, they will read solutions and that is what you need to do. Maybe make a post on your ideas and it might turn out good. Remember I do not disagree with you to a point, but a productive voice needs to be heard instead of a complaining one. 
Good luck.
JaronElus wrote:
For one, I wasn't talking about your city when I said most cities were only small groups. The bigger cities usually do have more than one group in it. My city has 4 PAs total in it. I was referring to the smaller cities that have no chance of growing to a bigger rank without a server swap or massive advertisement.
My question is how is it contradictory? If your taxes are only 2.4k a week, how can anyone not be able to have that amount? If your citizens can afford house maintenance (which they have to be to be even taxed) I am pretty sure they could afford another 3k. Most people have some skill in combat and can go to durni missions on Corellia twice to get the money for taxes which would only take 10-15 minutes. Even ones that only play 2 hours a week can afford that (which personally I don't understand why pay for the game for so little game time) but if they somehow can't, then pay for them yourselves. It is just very hard to believe that anyone without a little work could not get 3k. If your citizens say they like to help more but won't go out and do 2 missions to pay for the tax, well......
Again my entire post was not referring to you directly. There are some mayors out there that just want the power, most that I have met are great people with a sound mind but others well lets just say they have their own reasons. I mean we all hear accounts of mayors destroying the city hall because they might get voted out, that is what I was talking about. So basically your whole post isn't needed because I was not referring to you because most of the politicians that actually take the time to post here are good mayors and want what is best for their city, like you.
The only reason I say the "devs wanted this or that" is because the devs have constantly talked about player cities months before saying what they would like them to be. All I have done was reiterate what I remember that they have said before. I apologize if somehow this does annoy you....
I understand your point that you would like to see alternatives in being able to put money in the treasury, but the way you did it was the wrong way. The reason I countered your points was that all you were doing wascomplaining instead of being productive and giving ideas out on HOW the devs could implement a system of being able to contribute to the treasury in more ways. Devs won't read complaints, they will read solutions and that is what you need to do. Maybe make a post on your ideas and it might turn out good. Remember I do not disagree with you to a point, but a productive voice needs to be heard instead of a complaining one.
well... even with taxes at 5k a week.. city with 100 people makes 500k .. that doesnt even pay for half of what our city costs will. be.. it will take 10k a week..
i am not on here .. crying a river... our city will be fine.. it will survive and grow.. no big deal.. It is just sad that the way maitance is designed.. a few people share the responsibility to make it float.. My goal is to make a city that will last long after i am gone.. and to do that i must make sure the city is 100% self reliant.. i dont want to count on the rich ..
the whole idea of this post was to spark a debate.. so people could discuss different ideas. on how this issue should be addressed.. that is usually what happens.. trust .. me.. takes alot to get me complaining..
all in all i think the city system is growning nicely .. yes needs work.. but its only been a short amount of time.. i like to look in the long run....
Well, I don't know. My city is tier 4 and requires 300Kish maintenance a week atm. It generates more than double that a week. That's 6Kish per inhabitant atm. What are my taxes?
1000 income.
0% Land tax.
4% trade tax.
Answer: get successful merchants in town.