Politician Archive

Thread: Citywarn is a RP issue, not a PvP one

netzhualqoytl
Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:10 pm
#1

This is not a PK griefer issue.


IT IS A ROLEPLAYER ISSUE.


Jeez, I thought that's what this was supposed to be.....a Role Playing game.


Go figure.




_______________________________________________________________________________________

MMORPG.com:
You acknowledged in your last producer letter that one major flaw with the NGE’s introduction was broken content and that it was your goal to fix that. How did this happen in the first place?

Casey Keefe:
No comment.
LuciferMullins
Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:33 pm
#2


netzhualqoytl wrote:

This is not a PK griefer issue.

IT IS A ROLEPLAYER ISSUE.

Jeez, I thought that's what this was supposed to be.....a Role Playing game.

Go figure.






Do me a favor, go get killed repeatedly. So many times that your expensive gear is junk.

It's so bad you can't even get out of town so they can't /citywarn you anymore. You just keep popping into their cloning facility for another run at freedom with wounds all over, getting easier and easier to kill. Your only choice is to log out and not play until hopefully they have gone to bed.

If that's not abuse of game mechanics leading to griefing then what is small one? I've seen people who couldn't leave a PC for a whole day are pissed. The two I ran into actually had to wait until the wee hours of the morning to login just to get out of town.

That's griefing kid. That is done for no other purpose than to screw other people over. That is not Roleplaying. That is why the system must be changed.

If you don't think it's griefing then put your best gear on and hop over to me and let me clone-kill you repeatedly until your gear is junk, and then continue until you just decide to logout. Since I have friends who play in just about every time zone, I can pretty much guarantee you'll never be able to play that char again (we all own 2 to 4 pc's). You'll either have to be extremely lucky, delete char and start over, or wait until they change it.

Some people's kids... I swear.



Degriz Morningstar
Currently playing WoW on Kirin Tor
Dead Men Tell No Tales
Death and Honor
"Do not depend only on theory if your life is at stake."

netzhualqoytl
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:26 am
#3

Hey Lucifer,


I'm a 37 year old business consultant who plays this game for fun!


Go figure.


As far as spending the time to hash out your response, which would be not only futile, but pointless, since you're obviously spending way too much time, both playing, and typing, to lightnen up and relax, to rememberone thing.


It's a game, and in fact, it is a roleplaying game.


I will add this though. I spent alot of time, both in Beta, and since launch, making sure I developed my "Jedi skills" at staying alive. I never countedon the fact the the devs wouldn't one day never be able to fix "death". No quick trips to the cloning center for me "boy". Anyway, as far as your specific problem, the fact the you are dungeon camping, Holocron hunting, NON-RPer,makes mehave little sympathy for your"specific" problem with /citywarn, which is in fact, related directly to your play style. Do you really RP you're holocron hunting with a group? I think not.


Some of us are quite content to remain in a single class, avoiding the searh for the "Holy Grail Holocrons", on thier search to be Jesus, I mean Jedi. This /citywarn think "is" an RP issue for most of us, and your play style (exploiting POI's), is what makes you are "target" for other "exploitive" players. Birds of a feather son.


Anyway, I still have faith, that the devs will recind this descision to revoke /citywarn, and that there will be an agreeable solution to modifying, so that it works for the "kids", and the "adults". Then we'll both be happy.





_______________________________________________________________________________________

MMORPG.com:
You acknowledged in your last producer letter that one major flaw with the NGE’s introduction was broken content and that it was your goal to fix that. How did this happen in the first place?

Casey Keefe:
No comment.
netzhualqoytl
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:34 am
#4

P.S. This is one of the few games I've played where you didn't actually "die" (or suffer horrible consequence), when you die. I don't know what all the hub bub is about. You're gear? I thought you made a million a day.


Oh, I get it, it's messin' up you're Holocron hunting. Now I got it. It helps when you can get to the underlyingreason of peoples grievances.


Good luck on that one kid.




_______________________________________________________________________________________

MMORPG.com:
You acknowledged in your last producer letter that one major flaw with the NGE’s introduction was broken content and that it was your goal to fix that. How did this happen in the first place?

Casey Keefe:
No comment.
IsaacPalinander
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:38 am
#5

How many people actually role-play in this game though? Honestly. I know it's server specific but on my server, I can't honestly say I've ever seen anyone RP.



Isaac Palinander
Master Doctor/Master Medic/Master Swordsman, Patron Saint of Sarcasm, The Church of Alvis
Margaux Aderbrent: Master Architect/Master Armorsmith/Master Artisan
Cale Palinander: Dark Jedi Knight

ccpeters
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:39 am
#6

It's not necessary to use knee jerk reaction style solutions to problems caused by a minority few and a few galaxies. Change the cloning system to prevent cloning in an unwanted city; extend the warning time out to 2 minutes which is more than enough time to get out of town, and deal with these few cities on these few galaxies that maybe monopolizing a few key POI's individually. Our city, Halfwayfar, Tatooine in the Bria galaxy, just happens to be within a few hundred meters of the desert maze (who the heck goes to that anyway) and just under 1k from the Lar's Moisture Farm. None of these POI's are within city limits nor will they be even when we hit level V this weekend. I think another blanket fix of screwing over established cities that happen to be near ANY POI is also a bad idea.

This is not a complicated issue nor does it require a degree in Rocket Science to solve. Make the cloning system changes, extend the warning time out to 2 minutes, and deal with these few griefers ruining the game for a few and a few galaxies individually. Most of the time the K.I.S.S. principle is always better.

Keep It Simple Stupid!



---------------------------------
Fi'Ak - Former Ranger/Fencer
Ale' - Your friendly, neighborhood Bothan

netzhualqoytl
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:56 am
#7

Isaac,


I have about 50 people who live in my city who are role players. We can't be the only ones. Again, it is supposed to be a roleplaying game


I admit, lots of folks find it difficult to stay in character, yet another reason /citywarn was important to us. I think you understand what I mean by that.


We actually had an entire self-generated plot line developed around the fact that we were a Rebel Stronghold. So much for that story. Maybe that's why I took the time to write something on these boards, because the release of player cites, and the powers of the Millita, was one of the few elements that seemed to promote role playing, rather than detract from it, e.g. mounts.


I guess I'm just an old timer who remembers when we used to do it all with paper, pencil, dice, and a little think called "your imagination". Some of us still try, however futile it may seem, but that's because"imagination", was the best part of the game.


Sorry to vent on this board, it's just that we were finally getting a little real roleplaying "meat" out of it, and "BOOM", they took all the wind out of it.


Lucifer, sorry about the ageism flaming, that was reallyinappropriate on my part. I do however hold my stand, that you are doing something specific in the game, which is making you a target. All I wanted was to control "our" city, not a POI.


May the Force be with us.




_______________________________________________________________________________________

MMORPG.com:
You acknowledged in your last producer letter that one major flaw with the NGE’s introduction was broken content and that it was your goal to fix that. How did this happen in the first place?

Casey Keefe:
No comment.
forsynth
Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:39 am
#8

Can we please come up with newer arguments? it seems to me like they are all the same. I think that all thats going to be said has been said and the devs are going to do what they want to do regardless of our input. Because if it were up to us we would all be dictators for life in our cities. I dont even know why people stress so much about factions they dont really impact you unless you decide to go overt which is your choice... no one held a blaster to your head and made you declare your faction status... as to TEFs same rule applies... no one made you attack that imperial/rebel. If your rebel/imperial city gets attacked by the opposing faction thats life... you expect there to be rules in war? if you are harboring imperials/rebels you should attest to the consequences as to the militia question from a Rp standpoint it sorta makes sense that your soldiers would be real players not NPC'S otherwise you would safe because yousend yourNPC's...If you havent figured it out this question addreses the GCW part of the problem... as to griefers i have no idea what todo... but if you want to keep citywarn from being removed because of the GCW then it should be removed. If someone can find a way of not abusing citywarn while getting rid of griefers then please speak up because as it stands you can turn your city into a faction fortress/Isolated/POI guardians... and that is not the point of GCW... as demonstrated by almost everysingle aspect of the game ... its all about interaction not limited interaction.
BuB64882
Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:13 pm
#9

Good points, Lucifer, but you didn't need to make it personal. The "kids" comment was unnecessary.


I disagree with you, however. If players can't get out of town in 30 seconds (for whatever reason), fine. Increase the time limit...Hey, 5 minutes for a TEF, let's keep that magic number. The /citywarn, /cityban features are what makes player cities interesting to a whole lot of players out there. Bumping a variable is easier than removing the whole /city* feature set, right?


And these griefer cities will be gone shortly...No one will move to a city where customers and friends are not welcome. Like the smuggler system, abusers will go elsewhere quickly, when they're victims wise up and stop coming around.


Let me also take this opportunity to say that SOE's representatives have made several posts recently promising to "increase the fun". They want to do this by taking away the number of faction pets you can have (an Alliance Colonel may now have 1 trooper at his side. Oh, and this does nothing for those Droid Engineers screaming to be able to have two droids out at a time. That is still reserved for Master Creature handlers only...Cause three Grauls is so much more Star Wars than R2-D2 AND C3PO trailing Luke), changing all the HAM, weapon cert systems, and creature difficulty levels that we have finally gotten used to, and now, it seems, by removing what many percieve as the best part of one of the most unexpectedly exciting features of the game! Who knew building a city could be this exciting! Oh, you want me to just /ignore now? Phhbbbttt...Not exciting. I can do that in Theed. If SOE is serious about adding fun, they need to take a look at the pros and cons, and not force a solution that pisses off all the people that thought are using this feature as intended.





-Sereena Teal
LuciferMullins
Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:41 pm
#10

Without delving too much further into the rest of the "gameplay" issues or "fun" (I want Droidekas!):

S/He is acting like an foolish 10 year old. I call'em like I see'em. Watching "it" plainitively whine about RP while other people are being griefed horribly makes me sick. That and the knee-jerk carebear / barney crap. I played the only true non-consensual PvP MMORPG on record: UO before T2A (on a 33.6 modem no less!). I know more about griefing, res-killing, and general idiotic behaviour and don't wish to see this game drop that far.

Remove the problem function, establish a fix, then put the function back into place. Well that's how I code at my job anyway.

My solution of a cloning menu was supplanted by the (in some ways better) auto NPC city clone (unless you have data set to a PC).

They have to kill all city effects within 1k-2k of a POI otherwise groups will build by them to control them. Ooh look our own personal krayt, rebel, imp, |fill in the blank| spawn. We don't want outsiders here: /citywarn! Incidentally that is where the griefer cities rule the roost. They won't go anywhere if they can control a POI or have a large enough group. I make over a million credits a day myself in sales. I'm not even in a profitable crafting class. Cities aren't that expensive.

I feel bad for you, I do. I'm an architect on 1 acct, possibly the most unfixed crafter class. The point is that this function is being abused horribly by a small group of people. I equate it to zone killing. And raising the timer? How far? Some people are running bare min spec PC's w/ 56k conns. How long does it take for them to load? Get out of town? Should we make it ten minutes just to be safe?

Incidentally, the last idiot who "warned" me got his *expletive* handed to him. "Don't try to control a POI" was what I told him before the DB. Now if he had another friend or two I would have been the one dead. Of course that was before cloning centers and such wonders of this warn-kill-clone ad nauseaum nonsense. Nowadays if I lost I might not get to play that char again for a loooonnnnnnggggg time.


BuB64882 wrote:

Good points, Lucifer, but you didn't need to make it personal. The "kids" comment was unnecessary.

I disagree with you, however. If players can't get out of town in 30 seconds (for whatever reason), fine. Increase the time limit...Hey, 5 minutes for a TEF, let's keep that magic number. The /citywarn, /cityban features are what makes player cities interesting to a whole lot of players out there. Bumping a variable is easier than removing the whole /city* feature set, right?

And these griefer cities will be gone shortly...No one will move to a city where customers and friends are not welcome. Like the smuggler system, abusers will go elsewhere quickly, when they're victims wise up and stop coming around.

Let me also take this opportunity to say that SOE's representatives have made several posts recently promising to "increase the fun". They want to do this by taking away the number of faction pets you can have (an Alliance Colonel may now have 1 trooper at his side. Oh, and this does nothing for those Droid Engineers screaming to be able to have two droids out at a time. That is still reserved for Master Creature handlers only...Cause three Grauls is so much more Star Wars than R2-D2 AND C3PO trailing Luke), changing all the HAM, weapon cert systems, and creature difficulty levels that we have finally gotten used to, and now, it seems, by removing what many percieve as the best part of one of the most unexpectedly exciting features of the game! Who knew building a city could be this exciting! Oh, you want me to just /ignore now? Phhbbbttt...Not exciting. I can do that in Theed. If SOE is serious about adding fun, they need to take a look at the pros and cons, and not force a solution that pisses off all the people that thought are using this feature as intended.






Degriz Morningstar
Currently playing WoW on Kirin Tor
Dead Men Tell No Tales
Death and Honor
"Do not depend only on theory if your life is at stake."

LuciferMullins
Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:42 pm
#11

Forgot to mention: Shadowbane doesn't count, everyone knew it was all PvP all the time.



Degriz Morningstar
Currently playing WoW on Kirin Tor
Dead Men Tell No Tales
Death and Honor
"Do not depend only on theory if your life is at stake."

LuciferMullins
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:13 pm
#12

*Yawn*

Critical thinking lapses in the gene pool skimming.

Oh now it's a game, but you RP child are claiming that doing anything other than what you want will ruin RP.

Incidentally I don't Holo Hunt, though I do like to be able to visit POI's without having some twit /citywarn me because they built their PC so close they can shut people out.

Hmm let me build some city and block you from being able to visit a base or other POI and then /citywarn you away so that you can't get somewhere you want to roleplay at.

I have little faith in children and even less in most programmers (being one myself). You all want /citywarn, fine but make it inactive within 1-2k of POI's, write it so that people can actually get away, and finally take your version of RP and realize that not everyone wants to get into a fight. Some people cannot get away.

Oh I make enough cred, but how many people don't? Quite a few.



netzhualqoytl wrote:

Hey Lucifer,

I'm a 37 year old business consultant who plays this game for fun!

Go figure.

As far as spending the time to hash out your response, which would be not only futile, but pointless, since you're obviously spending way too much time, both playing, and typing, to lightnen up and relax, to remember one thing.

It's a game, and in fact, it is a roleplaying game.

I will add this though. I spent alot of time, both in Beta, and since launch, making sure I developed my "Jedi skills" at staying alive. I never counted on the fact the the devs wouldn't one day never be able to fix "death". No quick trips to the cloning center for me "boy". Anyway, as far as your specific problem, the fact the you are dungeon camping, Holocron hunting, NON-RPer, makes me have little sympathy for your"specific" problem with /citywarn, which is in fact, related directly to your play style. Do you really RP you're holocron hunting with a group? I think not.

Some of us are quite content to remain in a single class, avoiding the searh for the "Holy Grail Holocrons", on thier search to be Jesus, I mean Jedi. This /citywarn think "is" an RP issue for most of us, and your play style (exploiting POI's), is what makes you are "target" for other "exploitive" players. Birds of a feather son.

Anyway, I still have faith, that the devs will recind this descision to revoke /citywarn, and that there will be an agreeable solution to modifying, so that it works for the "kids", and the "adults". Then we'll both be happy.






Degriz Morningstar
Currently playing WoW on Kirin Tor
Dead Men Tell No Tales
Death and Honor
"Do not depend only on theory if your life is at stake."

Afecks
Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:23 pm
#13

Getting killed repeatedly from /citywarn is a result of the choices a "victim" player makes. 1) player isn't forced to be in city. 2) player isn't forced to stay in city. 3) player isn't forced to clone in city.


Devs said that because nonconsentual pvp isn't the point of SWG that they're pulling out citywarn. My contention is that they ARE consenting by making choices that put, and continue to put them in a position that will make them vulnerable to pvp. If you don't want to get warned, stay out of a city that you're not familiar with, or if you choose to go into the city, if you get warned, GET OUT. If you can't get out and you die, clone somewhere else (you should always clone on planet, it's a choice a player makes). Word has it, civic cloning centers will only be able to be used if it's a predesignated choice, and only static npc centers will be able to be used for "closest facility" clone choices, which also alleviates the issue.


Basically, stop whining and 1) let the militia do their job, and 2) let people live with the consequences of their choices.




:: Af'ecks ::
Mayor, Acropolis, Talus
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