Player Associations Archive

Thread: Idea about houses (item storage, maintenance and lot costs)

Ridger
Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:53 am
#1

I also posted this on the In Concept forums but thought it might be interesting for people here too.



I would like to suggesta thing that have been suggested before, probably over here too, but I will post it anyway just because I personaly think these are changes that would make the SWG experience better for the players and game developers together.


Item storage of houses:

=================


Currently the item storage on houses is a bit weird in my opinion, taking the Naboo houses here as an example. The small round house costs 1 lot and holds 75 items, the small square housecosts 2 lots and holds 150 items, the medium house costs 2 lots and holds 150 items, the large house costs 6 lots and holds 250 items and the PA Hall costs 9 lots and holds 250 items.


Now it can be only me, but there seems to be something wrong with this, as I see it the best way to get as much items storage is to place 5 small square houses (10 lots and 750 items storage) for the minimum in maintenance costs.


I would like to propose to change the item storage to be related to the lot costs of a house. 75 items a lot, this wont change the small houses in any way and will encouragepeople toplace a PA hall instead of 5 small houses (which to my knowledge will improve server loading and backup, for there will be less houses to store in the database). Item count will stay the same as 10 lots will still give you 750 items as it does now as you place 5 small houses.

Secondly I would like to suggest to move the lot count of the medium house to 4 so it can contain more items or leave them as it is, depending on what the general players opinion is on this.

(If the lots are upped to 4, then give players who currently have a medium house an option to "upgrade" thehouse to the new item count if they have 2 extra lots free, else keep the house grandfathered on 150 items count till they have 2 lots free and been given this option, new medium houses will have the 300 items on standard placement)

Also link the average maintenance cost to the lots instead of the house, this way you will be paying the same in maintenance no matter what you place (currently 5 small houses will cost average 1920 credits a day, 5 medium houses, which have same lot and item count, 4080 credits a day and a PA hall which holds 1 lot less then 5 houses and holds only 100 items more, 2400 a day) My sugesstion is to let people pay between 350 and 500 credits average petlot per day.

To me the small house seems the big winner in all ways you look at it (besides the physical look of them) and I think that this should be changed to make other houses more attractive to obtain. Thus making the cities and planets perhaps less house cluttered and diverse.


Please let me know what you think of these ideas (not everything might be new, but I think they are ideas that certainly will improve game enjoyment for many people).

Also I would like to hear comments and improvements on these ideas.


Thank you all for reading this!



Ridger - The licking lizard, licking his way through the galaxy! (Lowca)

Enrich Danziger - Guild Leader of BABE
Curator of the Babelon Museum (Naboo, 430 -70, behind the Babelon Shuttleport)
Owner of the Babelon Cantina (Naboo, 250 -5)
Master Musician, Master Entertainer of BABE, we also perform on weddings and parties, please contact your local agent! (Lowca)

--- SWG developers, are they the true nerf herders of the galaxy? ---
Jascentia
Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:46 am
#2

I used to feel quite similarly to you in regards to lots and storage. Unfortunately the game code makes tweaking these things very diffficult.


For example, storage is related most closely to how many objects the database can handle, and how much storage any one player should have. They have capped storage at 250 for a single structure, and this cap means storage won't relate directly to amount of lots. In fact, the devs never were interested in a perfect lots to storage ratio. They were intrested in database to storage and footprint to lots. As for those lots...


Right now the amount of lots a structure takes up is determined by how large its footprint is. This is why a Tatooine Hall is 7 lots but the other halls are 9. The footprint for Tat halls is smaller. Anything under a certain size gets1 lot, which is why all harvesters fall into this cateogry. I imagine when a structure is created (unless it is a special structure like a city structure that requires 0 lots) its footprint decides how many lots it will have. That is then set for the life of the object. So it is really hard to change the amount of lots a pre-existing structure takes up.It would require changing the look of the building and applying that new art look across the whole game, and everyone would have to download a new version of the art for that structure.


This is what I've been able to determine from conversations with devs and some deduction based upon those conversations.





Jascentia
| Retired

Ridger
Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:32 am
#3

Hmm, that is kind of a bummer, so the devs rather have us clutter up the planets with 5 small houses to store our items? Can you perhaps ask the devs sometime what problem it would create for the database to have 675 items in a PA hall for example?


The objects in the database in general will not change by much I think, if you have 750 items in your 5 houses or you have 750 items in your PA hall and small house, it still will be 750 items in total. Only thing I can think of that the client has to download 675 items at the same time instead of 250 items. Considering the hardware requirements for SWG that shouldnt be a too big problem in my opinion.


As you say they have capped storage limit to the structure itself instead on then on the lot, to me it should not be a mayor issue to up that cap on each individual building, that way they dont have to change any artwork either as you suggest.


There are several ways a developer can handle the code and overcome problems, if they just set a cap per building that is related to the lots the structure uses then it will seem it is related to the lots while in the code it realy isnt. But those are just my thoughts, I dont know the SWG code


Hopefully you can get an answer from the developers on this issue, I thank you for your response Jascentia!






Ridger - The licking lizard, licking his way through the galaxy! (Lowca)

Enrich Danziger - Guild Leader of BABE
Curator of the Babelon Museum (Naboo, 430 -70, behind the Babelon Shuttleport)
Owner of the Babelon Cantina (Naboo, 250 -5)
Master Musician, Master Entertainer of BABE, we also perform on weddings and parties, please contact your local agent! (Lowca)

--- SWG developers, are they the true nerf herders of the galaxy? ---
Jascentia
Sun Mar 28, 2004 3:14 pm
#4


First I'll jump in with my own assumptions. If I get a verified dev response I can jump in with it later.


To some extent, the devs do not mind that 5 small houses is the best in storage efficiency because they know people will choose larger structures. Some players need PA Halls and larger houses. So, they can guarantee that not everyone is using every available smidgen of storage space they could possibly get and the database performance is likely right in line with this assumption. However, if they did what you suggested a higher % of players *would* be using more of the storage space available to them resulting in a huge jump of total objects being stored.


I'm not sure if you remember when each player was born with 5 melons. They reduced this number because just a few extra items compounded by the total number of characters was causing uneeded stress on the database. I hope this puts into perspective how cautious the devs can be when it comes to issues like storage space.

Message Edited by Jascentia on 03-28-2004 02:17 PM





Jascentia
| Retired

Ridger
Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:09 am
#5

*grins*


Yes I remember the melons indeed from my other account, still have one of them left. And yes you probably are right that a change like this will probably lead to the fact that people will even store more items.


I myself have a PA hall placed for my museum (it just looks great as museum) and itsaddens me that the PA hall is full and I have to store the rare/uncommon items in 2 seperate houses (yes, there are so many rare/uncommon loot and quest items that it will not fit in one PA hall). I just use about half the PA hall (to make things look good) and rotate the items that are on display in the museum.


Wish there was a possibility to get more items in a PA Hall, I keep my hopes up that someday they will give larger houses more storage capicity. Reading these forums I am not the only one that has this wish.


Thanks for the info Jascentia! Eventhough it is not what I wanted to hear it is appreciated!




Ridger - The licking lizard, licking his way through the galaxy! (Lowca)

Enrich Danziger - Guild Leader of BABE
Curator of the Babelon Museum (Naboo, 430 -70, behind the Babelon Shuttleport)
Owner of the Babelon Cantina (Naboo, 250 -5)
Master Musician, Master Entertainer of BABE, we also perform on weddings and parties, please contact your local agent! (Lowca)

--- SWG developers, are they the true nerf herders of the galaxy? ---
Xyrdre
Wed Mar 31, 2004 6:49 am
#6

This issue just hit me the other day as well.

It seems to me that a PA hall, especially when used as a headquarters for a PA, should be well decorated; in a sense, it represents the success of the PA to the community that sees it. And let's face it... a PA hall is a barn. It's huge. There's a lot of space in there to adorn with the treasures of the galaxy, and a lot of PA members contributing to the collected treasures on display.

250 item slots disappear incredibly fast.

Put one or two major centerpieces in. No problem. Some seating and tables, a couple of paintings, plants, lighting. A pair of statues. A few cool items on display; we were lucky enough to have a suit of Kashyyk Ceremonial armor donated to us within hours after going live. A couple of loudspeakers (we're an entertainer PA) and knicknacks... and the main first room is starting to look like the place is actually inhabited, although still very open and empty.

Add to that that since the building takes 9 lots, my character has to live there as her primary residence. No problem... use the downstairs as apartments. I don't think I have a lot of stuff; I've only been playing 3 1/2 weeks... haven't had time to amass a huge amount of things. As a dancer, there's a wardrobe and dance props. A few pieces of furniture to make it feel like home. A few resource containers of stuff I've harvested while doing a little side scouting. Nothing outlandish.

And this barn is almost full already. With only two of its 9 rooms (discounting the really great roof area, which we should be able to place items on as well, IMO) even partially decorated.

What's the point in having such a large, impressive looking building if it has to look so empty on the inside? This beast takes 9 lots. I understand the need to watch database space for items, but he question of server space has to be based on an item cap per player, right? As has been stated above, anyone NOT forming a PA can always choose to drop 5 small houses and get storage for 750 items. As someone creating a PA, and in a sense helping to create player content to the game, I feel like I'm being unintentionally penalized for this. My best bet is to pick up a round small Naboo house (the only 1 lot building in the game) to add 75 more items for a total of 325 items, which must be split between personal effects - and displays and decorations for a 9 lot footprint barn.

This one should be obvious... if item storage on buildings was directly related to lots required to place, it all works. If we all get 10 lots, and we all get 750 items, it all works. 75 items per lot makes sense. 675 items in a PA hall might take a little extra time to load, but it's nothing compared to the existing lag at Coronet Starport, or all of Dantooine. I'll deal with a slight extra load time.

Okay. Rant off. Going to go now and try to find some place to put a little round Naboo house so I can stop carrying all this stuff in my backpack.





Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...
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