Player Associations Archive
Thread: Venting... Burn Out? Political infighting?
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Balin76
Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:23 pm
#1
I suppose I'm really just looking to vent, in a forum where it will do me less harm than others. 
I'm currently the "leader" of Kaiburr on Scylla. I use the quotes, because we're trying to get the conversion by SOE to take place. I'm finding myself more and more frustrated by trying to lead the guild these days. Our structure has always been to have a guild council. Only the council can accept new members. (A little outside information, the guild was founded by 5 people, 4 of usare RL friends - this was the original council) As the guild grew, tension mounted with one of the founders (the non-RL friend.) He began to harass guild members for buff, demanding that they come to his location to be buffed, and generally being a pain in the backside. So, the rest of the council (had expanded to 7 council members by this time) sat down and gave the offending member some ground rules. Said player didn't follow them, and was removed from the guild. Some of our guys still talk with him, some of us do not. I was guild leader the night that all of the fallout occurred. That night, on the phone, one of the other RL friends said that he had some ideas that he wanted to try, and asked if he could be leader for a while. Given that this request passed through the other 3 before it got to me, I said sure, why not. All the while being very hurt by being asked to step down. I put some "spin" on the occurrance, and the rest of the guild felt that I just wanted a break for a while, to destress from the situation mentioned above.
Under the new leader, our weekly guild meetings stopped. Then the leader was supposed to be shipped overseas, and then the deployment was revoked. RL drama and turmoil ensued for a few weeks, while he tried to figure out RL issues. (And I can understand all of that.) What I had major difficulty understanding was when he stopped logging in altogether a bit later. Speaking with his Brother (one of the 4 RL friends) I was told that the leader was "really busy and wouldn't be playing much anymore, except for maybe on the weekends." That really pissed me off. Here he'd taken leadership away from me, and didn't even have the decency to tell us himself that we (the guild) were being told to shove off. Guild leadership was returned to me, and I was welcomed back by the guild with open arms.
Since that time, there have been a number of "little things" that make me wonder if things are as happy as I'd thought. We decided, as a guild, that we were going to attempt to be a mafia, of sorts. It was decided to keep the name, Kaiburr Enterprises, and see about changing the guild tag. Well, magic guild update day came and went. It was later found that the tag we'd chosen was already in use. Drat. Well, after some discussion in guild chat (between a very small number of members 3-5/40) a new tag was chosen. Fine, don't care so much about that. Except Kaiburr Enterprises was no longer Kaiburr Enterprises. It was now Kaiburr Cartel. GrrrrrrrThat, I feel, should have been taken up at a guild meeting. It was at a guild meeting that we agreed that keeping the name as Kaiburr Enterprises was a good idea! A little more time passes....
One of our council members has taken a leave of abscense of sorts, until the Space Expansion. He was removed from the city rolls, and I sent an email to our council members asking them to give me good times before April 5 that we could meet. (This wasin early march.) No one responded. So, over the weekend, I found all of our active council online, and I dragged them all into a private chat. We dealt with that issue and moved on to a second that's been bothering me.
I've been trying to get guild leadership OFFICIALLY in my name for a while. Duringthat council meeting, it was brought up that the Brother doesn't want to see power "centralized in one person." (Note, the SOE leader is currently Previous Leader, and the Brother has his logon info) This centralization confuses me, because my intent is to broaden who has what rights, not limit it. I just want to be able to change permissions when we get new members, without having to bother someone else to do it for me. Never did get a clear answer on this one, at least, not from the Brother. The rest of the council seemed to think it made sense.
I asked about maybe getting the council together once a month, so that we can come up with guild event ideas, etc. The Brother thought that was excessive. We should keep them ad hoc. Another council member suggested every two weeks. Please note, Kaiburr has been around since PA Halls were introduced, and this is the first time that the council has actually met... not wholly by choice. That was met with approval by the majority of the council. The Brother, oddly enough, was in agreement with me that the council should be more than just a "reward" for service to the guild, but seems to duck any ideas that would add responsibility to the position.
Fast forward to the guild meeting. As we were looking for an interim council member,we were looking for nominations. I did let them all know that the council is meeting every two weeks. Previous Leader says that he thinks that's a crappy idea, and that they should be ad hoc (Same thing his Brother said at the council meeting.) Note, Previous Leader is NOT ON THE COUNCIL! This was his choice, when he walked away from the game some time ago. As of late, Previous Leader has been using a jackass persona. And one of our other members has decided to emulate Previous Leader. So, Emulator and Previous Leader appear to be getting together with The Brother to be a pain in my postieror. I'd be half tempted to take the issue of guild leadership BACK to the full guild and let them decide, but I'm curious why I should bother. They already voted me back to leader once, when Previous Leader was lacking in any login time. There's another guild in town that I'm pretty sure would allow me to join, I'm just not sure that I could stop worrying about what Kaiburr was doing, and what kind of decay/stagnation was creeping in. We've always had a very family-style feel, and that has been rather poisonous of late.
And I know I'm being a little thin-skinned on some of the issues here. And I know I really should sit down all of the RL friends and have a little heart to heart. But you see, I'm on the fringe of the RL friend group. I'm the Wife of the 3rd RL friend. Third was friends with the Brother (and Previous Leader) longbefore I came into the picture. So I don't want to get in the way of that. Brother was Best Man at our wedding. I suppose I'm just looking to vent, and see about getting some outside, objective viewpoints on all of this.
Sorry it's long, but thanks for listening... if you made it this far!
ArthurP
Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:44 pm
#2
It's an old thought, but counsels are nothing but trouble. When it works, it works great.. but when there are differing opinions and egos involved - look out!
Our original guild split a few months ago from 70+ members and about 6 council when the leaders got involved in fighting over the city issue. Not to go into detail - but it went back and forth for quite a while. The members wanted the leaders to decide - andthe counsel threw it BACK to the members..
Then in the middle of the lauded vote - two leaders conspired together and tried to force an option that wasn't even in the voting! It was bad leadership for sure.
The conspiring leaders left and the remnant deliberated long and hard - and eventually disbanned and refromed a NEW guild which today is back up to 70 - and the town which was argued over and dismissed as a false start - is one of the most active metropolises around!
Oh... our leadership structure? Ain't got one. I serve as guild leader as our founder is off doing his thing and I am also Mayor (and city entertainer). I did appoint a Commander to head up the military - but that's it. We have a few respected citizens who know they have my ear (as ALL citizens do) - but we are a happy group because there is no political fighting going on... People who want to fight, craft, etc - get to do that . And those who wish to serve - and take it seriously without ego and power trips - get to do thier thing as well.
TXAG2006
Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:37 am
#3
Our guild has a leader, he mainly organizes hunts, and we have a mayor, she organizes the city, the rest of us are left to play the game as long as we have fun (our guild's only real rule). We just started our own city due to disagreements with our old city planners and fighting about taxes and such. IMHO it sounds like you and your friends are taking it a little too seriously. Maybe ask one of the friends, since you are on the fringe, to bring something up then you all talk about it, I don't know. Good luck with that and don't get in a fight over SWG, fight the devs not your friends
ArthurP
Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:37 am
#4
Ive seen it before though. Usually it's ego and ownership. The founder of the guild feels it is HIS and doesn't want to see anyone else in charge.
Sad to say, but it sounds like the only way to 'fix' is to is branch off and start a new guild. That way you avoid the messy power-struggle and hurt feelings. Leaving will only cause hurt feelings... you just avoid the power strugggle...
Good Luck!
Balin76
Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:32 am
#5
Well, I'm currently planning a phone call with Previous Leader. I'm going to ask him exactly why he's undermining my authority, and ask him if he'd do the same thing to his Cpt. in front of his squad. (He's an army guy, and I think he'll take the hint.) Previous Leader is one of the founders, there were 5 of us, and the Brother was the original leader. Previous Leader had the lots avail. Brother got sick and tired of the day to day stuff, and since I've been a guild leader on a MUD before, asked me if I wanted it. So, we'll see what happens with the phone call. I'll let you all know what ends up happening.
Thanks for your insights!
Koth
Tragg
Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:21 am
#6
Kothmia I'm not going to offer you any advice, cause I think you need this more:
/hug
A Little Bit Of Pain Never Hurt Anyone
Balin76
Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:52 am
#7
It's amazing what can happen when a little outside game communication takes place. Previous Leader was in class when I called, so I sat down and had a long chat with Brother (it was a 3 cigarette conversation with him, and he doesn't have many of those!) We talked about the issues that I mentioned in my first post, and exactly how they were impacting me. While he thought I was taking it all far to personally (I knew this going in) he could see my point. An ingame mail to another council member the day I was ready to hang it all up, got some motivation from the guild as well. I was agitated enough that morning, that I mis-spelled "kothmia" which is how he knew I was really aggrivated. Things have improved. Now that a good percentage of our members have returned with the return of a ship to it's home port, hopefully things will continue to improve. Thank you all, and especially to Tragg. I can always use a hug! If you're ever on Scylla, look me up.
If you're ever on Scylla, look me up.
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